But doesn't change the fact that that they kill humans to survive.

I think the Hunger Demon does fully dominate their host. Why? Because once the Hunger Demon has fully established itself, the host needs to feed it, i.e. usually kill, to survive.  Remember how Lara and later Thomas talked after the Skin Walker was finished with him, they enjoy it..  There is another side to the strength that the host gains from the Hunger Demon, power.  That is the most addictive power on earth..  Maybe because he was Margaret's son, Thomas never quite got to that point, he never was interested in empire building unlike his sister, Lara, who clearly is.

Yes, but I'm not implying that the human side of a White Court vamp is morally superior to the demon within it; and Thomas is an outlier, the human side is almost always corrupted by the drives of the demon and its need to feed.  What I am saying is that the human need to socialize and the desire of the host to fit in with uncorrupted humans to ensure its own safety, ends up deflecting the goals of the demon from shear destruction into something that seeks to protect humanity in general, if only for its own selfish ends. 

The corrupted human part of a White Court vampire who cannot love another or is afraid to try to do so because love is literal poison to them, can be likened to a psychopath or someone with narcissistic personality disorder, someone who lacks empathy for other people.  Though I suspect that Jim would say my comparison falls short or misses the mark in some key way.  None the less, a vanilla person like the types I named above will often try to fill up the empty space within them with sensation seeking, material possessions or building up an empire of some sort, perhaps in business or politics. 

And empire building is the opposite of what Outsiders want to achieve.  The want to destroy human order of any kind, even the morally decadent and corrupted civilization the White Court would create.   

I think the answer is whatever process or tainted item was used to nemfect Elaine wasn’t introduced or occur until the day she stayed home sick while Harry went to school. (Info taken from Harry’s discussion with Lea in Ghost Story.) It is also possible Justin did something to Elaine the day before but it didn’t take old until the next morning.

So, Harry and Elaine may have soulgazed days, weeks or even a couple of months earlier.  In theory, Elaine and Harry could have soulgazed on a Sunday morning, then Justin did whatever was needed to infect Elaine that afternoon or night, and the next day when Harry came back early from school, he found Justin with a nemfected Elaine.

What I am wondering is there a connection between Nemesis and the Hunger Demon?  Did Margaret come to realize this?  Is this why she was compelled to conceive a star child with Malcolm? Is this to the key of while she couldn't kill Lord Raith outright with her death curse, perhaps she could damage the Hunger Demon? 

Like there is a connection between the Black Court and Outsiders?  That is an interesting thought.  You might be on to something.

However, Mavra mentioned something in Battle Ground about "ruling in the rubble" following the Stars and Stones.  Whatever the exact quote is, it isn't important as much as it tells us the Black Court has a long-term plan and because the Black Court is connected in someway to the Outsiders their plan is most likely tied into Outsider goals.

So far, we haven't seen that kind of end-game thinking from the White Court yet, other than Lara knowing about Nemesis. That could be because Lord Raith has been effectively if temporarily put on the sideline or permanently lobotomized.  If he was still in power, perhaps Lord Raith would have revealed his endgame plan for the White Court. 

What bothers about this line of thinking is, the White Court seems to thrive with civilization.  I'm not seeing a strong motivation to see mortal civilization torn apart.  While the Black Court could benefit from some kind of post apocalyptic world.

In the end, this doesn't nullify your thinking.  One way to explain it is unintended consequences.  The Outsiders are so different from our world they can't anticipate everything.  Maybe there is a connection between Outsiders and the White Court Hunger Demon, but the Outsiders couldn't have known that their creation or one-time close ally would eventually have a strong reason to oppose them.   

 

Just what Harry needs:  a Seventh Law violation to make his Council troubles worse. 

(Somehow I missed this comment before.)  You are not wrong, but isn't it almost inevitable?  Not in the next couple of books but almost certainly in the BAT? 

That's a question that's bothered me for a while.  Because the Librarians are supposed to be highly secretive, and particularly cautious of Harry in part because he publicly advertises, and also because of his propensity for destruction.  I recall a WoJ that the main reason the Librarians never reached out to Karrin was that she was considered suspicious for being a known associate of the wizard.

The feds in the Dog Men comic weren't exactly enthusiastic to cooperate with Harry, but they weren't super shy of letting him know they were aware of the supernatural in general and specifically of him, either.  It's been a while since I read that one, but I don't think they came across as being as impressively prepared / capable as I'd have expected from the Librarians, either.

So are there two branches of clued feds?  The Librarians in the background being super cautious, and the more goonish branch doing more open field work?  Either independently, or directed from the shadows by the Librarians, as pawns that known just enough to do their missions, but not enough to compromise the Librarians if something happens to them?

I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get Tilly working for them, but probably not trusted at too high a level, as making their Chicago presence someone who more or less already trusted Harry would make it a bit too easy for him.

Jim wrote the outlines for the various Dresden comic books, but another writer filled in the details.  There were times when the main characters in one or two of the comic books felt off to me, so I could see the Dog Men comic book totally missing how Jim wants the Librarians to be portrayed going forward.

One last detail I forgot to mention in my original post.  If Nemesis is using Elaine, when everything comes to a head, it might resemble the Babylon 5 episode Divided Loyalties, where it was revealed that the Psi Corps telepath Talia Winters had a secret personality hidden inside her, spying on the command staff at the station. 

When Winters was exposed, she started screaming, "The Corps is mother. The Corps is father" and some other gibberish.  I don't know what Elaine might shout at Harry, but it might look something like that scene.   

All important, but one has to ask the question, what in the hell is a starborn?  We know supposedly that one of Harry's talents if you could call it that is he has power over Outsiders.  Is that true of all starborn? Or is Harry unique? Rashid may fit, he fights Outsiders at the Outer Gates, and he may be old enough to be born 666 years ago, but at the same time being born in the right year doesn't a starborn make.. There are other factors that go into it if Lash is to be believed.  What of Listen and Drakul?  Do they have power over Outsiders as well?  Or were they formed for something else?

That, as they say, is the $64,000 question.  My guess is that a starborn can do more than just dominate Outsiders.  Listen said something about an endgame to Ethniu, with the word endgame being cut off.  We don’t know if the endgame is the final battle with the Outsiders / Nemesis or if the endgame comes after that.

Marva was the first character to mention The Stars and Stones as an event rather than to use it as a curse.  We don’t know what that is.  Is it the endgame, a precursor event to the endgame or a completely separate event that is only related to the endgame in proximity, but not directly connected to it?

I would guess that the names of the final three novels give us a small clue to how events will proceed.  I remember Stars and Stones is the name of one novel and Empty Night is the name of another.  I can’t remember the title of the third novel or what order they are in.  I can guess Stars and Stones will involve the Black Court and Drakul and Empty Night will be Nemesis, but beyond that I have no clue.

One more thing.  The conversation between Listen and Ethniu has made me believe that Ethniu is the key to Listen being starborn.  She seemed to be his sponsor rather than Korb.  I think a major supernatural player like one of the Queens, a Titan, old god or an Angel or Fallen Angel does something to a person born at the right time that takes them to next level. 

Harry had this starborn ability before he became the Winter Knight; according to Lash, but he already had had contact with Mab prior to becoming her Knight.  Getting that last ingredient might be something unnoticeable by a mortal or it might be something like Mab sticking a letter opener in Harry’s hand or stabbing Harry may have distracted him from feeling whatever tingling sensation happens when someone becomes a fully activated starborn individual. 

Now that I think about it, Harry defeated HWWB when he was 16.  So Mab couldn’t have anything to do with Harry being starborn.  Lea visiting Harry in the orphanage.  That is a huge stretch.  So, maybe Harry’s mother did something before Harry was born for his abilities to be fully activated when his magic came in.  That makes sense, but it doesn’t explain who other starborn characters were activated.