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Messages - morriswalters

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16
DF Spoilers / Re: Justin DuMorne
« on: November 01, 2022, 09:21:19 PM »
You'll only know if Butcher tells you.  Kids never really know their parents. They have this dream that is one part wish fulfillment with a sprinkle of wishful thinking. I suspect he'll mine this to produce some drama, assuming no more cat or dog issues and he takes a breather on romance.

17
DF Spoilers / Re: Justin DuMorne
« on: October 29, 2022, 05:11:27 PM »
In the story Thomas tells you what he's learned and how, how much is reliable is a question with no answer within the text. I'll take Thomas at his word until Butcher decides to make him unreliable as a source.

18
DF Spoilers / Re: Justin DuMorne
« on: October 29, 2022, 02:29:54 AM »
Margaret was only partially enthralled, that's in the quote. Somebody figured out how to make a Starborn, maybe Maggie. For some purpose unexplained. They hold a meeting with the Red Court, the White Court, the White Council and Maggie, maybe representing the Black Council. She shops the idea to the attendees.  Eb doesn't like it but he does his job and takes the proposal the the Senior Council, they bite.  Somewhere in the mix Maggie gets cold feet. Possibly because Raith has decided she can be the baby machine they need. Maybe he pushed to hard, who knows. She bolts an goes into the Never Never.

19
DF Spoilers / Re: Justin DuMorne
« on: October 28, 2022, 10:39:27 PM »
Couple of points.  Margaret was at least partially enthralled by Raith per Thomas in Blood Rites.
Quote
"God knows," Thomas said. "All I know is that there was some sort of business between them. It developed into something else. Father was trying to snare her permanently, but she wound up being too strong for him to completely enthrall.
She bore part of the responsibility for what was done to Harry.
Quote
"I was so arrogant. I laid too great a burden upon you to bear alone.
In Changes Butcher set's up a Chekhov's gun, the meeting attended by Eb and Papa Raith where Margaret tries to sell her plan.


20
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 22, 2022, 03:48:43 PM »
To use a vanilla mortal Mab would first have to create a bargain. This is established in Summer Knight when Mab forces Harry to stab himself. He tied himself to Winter by bargaining with Lea. Mab bought him from Lea and all else follows.

21
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 22, 2022, 01:56:28 AM »
Quote
Which meant that I'd be an idiot not to check for razor blades and cyanide.

"I decide which requests I fulfill and which I don't?"

"Even so."

"And if I refuse a request, there will be no reprisals or punishments from you."

She tilted her head and blinked her eyes, slowly. "Agreed. You, not I, will choose which requests you fulfill."

There was one land mine I'd found, at least. "And no more selling my mortgage, either. Or whistling up the lackeys to chastise or harass me by proxy. This remains between the two of us."

She laughed, and it sounded as merry, clear, and lovely as bells—if someone pressed them against my teeth while they were still ringing. "As your godmother did. Fool me twice, shame on me, wizard? Agreed."
I put in bold the hook that Mab hung Harry on. The lie is, she won't punish Harry for not taking the job, but she gives him the job anyway knowing that Titania will attempt to kill him.

22
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 21, 2022, 12:00:44 PM »
Titania attacked him at the beginning of Small Favor before Mab even shows up. He's not her Emissary at that point. He has to take the job. He has no standing in Winter at that time. Titania may simply want him dead for Aurora. Those guys also chased various Carpenters... they are not emissaries.
The tense of the phrase when Mab talks to Harry in the snow storm is past tense.
Quote
“I have chosen you to be my Emissary,” Mab said to me. “You will repay me a favor owed. You will find the Baron.
Not I will choose, but I have chosen.  Which is why the Gruff's attacked at Michael's.

Butcher sets this up in Summer Knight by establishing that the Queens can't just attack any mortal they choose.  Which is why the chlorofiend can't hurt Murphy in Summer Knight.  He goes to a lot of trouble to establish this. For Titania to attack Harry he has to be connected to Summer in some fashion. That connection doesn't exist until Harry is named Emissary. It's explains the doughnut. When Harry gets back to Chicago the Emissary's work is finished and Harry is again safe.

This is actually her second run at Harry. She uses  her position as a Fate to choose for Harry to die in the alley behind Bock's Books in Dead Beat. When Marcone interferes Titania uses  this fact to attack him in Small Favor.
Quote
“This is another point of contention between you and Titania.”

“When one Court moves, the other perforce moves with it,” Mab said.

I croaked, “Titania wants Marcone dead?”

“Put simply,” she replied. “And her Emissary will continue to seek your death. Only by finding and saving the Baron’s life will you preserve your own.”
This arc effectively ends when Titania gives up her quest for vengeance in Cold Days. It also has ramifications for Proven Guilty and helps explain why Mab is defending her borders.

23
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 20, 2022, 08:31:49 PM »
This was in Small Favor although Summer Knight sets it up and foreshadows it.
Quote from: Summer Knight
Fear not for your little warriors. They were your weapon, and the only one accountable for their actions will be you. Take their steel with you, and it will be enough."
So Mab knew that, if given an opportunity, that Titania would take revenge.

24
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 20, 2022, 04:27:59 PM »
Quote from: Small Favor
Anger flared in my chest and shoved my brain aside on its way to my mouth. “That wasn’t our deal,” I snapped. “Our bargain stipulated that I would choose which favors to repay and that you would not coerce me.”
Quote from: Small Favor
“I have not coerced you, nor dispatched any agent of mine to do so,” Mab continued, as if the break in the conversation had never happened. “Nonetheless, if you wish to survive, you will serve me. I assure you that Summer’s agents will not rest until you are dead.”
Mab did indeed coerce him. She knew that naming him as Emissary would free Titania to attack him and that was the whole point. Mab lied. She named him Emissary before she asked him to serve.  The term is fait accompli. Butcher deceived you by pulling a fast one. He expects you to ignore the implicit deception.

 

25
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 19, 2022, 11:40:32 AM »
No. It has at its heart dishonesty. A lie is an out and out untruth. Misleading, even intentionally, is not lying. 

Let us pretend magical ability can be quantified simply. All people can be classified on a scale from 1 (normals) to 10 (the Merlin).

Harry says:

"The White Council has inducted all wizards of a power level 6 or greater."
"I am a level 7"

One would usually assume Harry is part of the WC.

Well, he WAS. But he is not NOW.

But what did he say was untrue?

He WAS inducted.
He IS a 7.

He did not say "All wizards of power level 6 or greater ARE part of the WC" THAT would be a lie, as he was kicked out.

If he said "The WC screens wizards, and any they find of a level 6 or up are inducted" we are led to believe all level 6 and up are, or have been, part of the WC.

But Elaine is a 6.

But she flunked her tests and they think she's a 4.  Harry knows this. But he tried to mislead you.

The Fae are heartless, soulless creatures. They ARE natural lawyers. They draw these distinctions. They let you believe what they want you to believe. Whether or not it is true.
If you use a thesaurus it will become clear. The Fae and in particular Mab take advantage of a knowledge mismatch, what they know and what you  think you know. The perfect example of this happens in Small Favor when Mab makes Dresden her Emissary before asking him to be one. He thinks he can say no without understanding the cost.  This is a knowledge mismatch.  She knows Titania is out to murder him.  This is also a form or coercion. The lie is letting him believe that he has a choice.

26
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 17, 2022, 11:15:47 PM »
It is part and parcel with the Fae "letter of the law" & hair-splitting attitude.

Fae never flatly-deny that they deceive, or engage in subterfuge.  But they do not engage in that part of deception comprised of positively-affirming a known un-truth --  that (and only that) is a "lie" (as language is used by the fae).

Here is an interesting thought-experiment:  is there some language which doesn't have all these fine divisions of kinds-of-deception.  If there's only one word for all that stuff, do faeries still deny that they do it?  Do they then -- bound by their word -- not do any of it??!?
I don't think so; I think Mab is bound in this by Faerie Law.  Mab is certainly not sovereign over Titania!

I offer a WAG:
In this quote, Mab isn't saying "I will never lie."
She is saying, "I'm not lying... yet.  But I will... after the Stars fall from the sky."
Any deception has at it's heart, a lie.  You can test this if you so choose.  It just isn't explicit. If it were simple we wouldn't need lawyers.

It's debatable if Titania is a peer or something else.  Certainly they are Mab's Accords, not Titania's. When Mab shut down all access to portals to the mortal world it included Summer. But my out on this is to look at Mab and Titania as two different sides of the same coin. With a side helping of a third we haven't seen.

For my internal canon Mab's statement means exactly what it says, she holds true to her word.

27
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 17, 2022, 12:51:54 PM »
For the purposes of the lore Butcher taps into the formality we use to carry on relations in a conflict thus guest right and all that follows. About lying, from my perspective it can be summarized by Mab saying that the Stars will fall from the sky before Mab breaks a promise. It is her will that the Fae don't lie.  But of course they do. Deception and subterfuge are lies. They just aren't obvious lies. But I don't insist that you travel down this road with me I just offer it as a counterpoint.

28
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 16, 2022, 04:09:19 AM »
Winter Law is whatever Mab says it is.  And it applies only when she wants it to and then only to the Fae and not the rest. She let the Hobs loose in the train station and I'm pretty sure that most of the dead wouldn't have known or ever heard of Mab. When Lea got uppity during Dead Beat Mab took the Atheme and tortured her until she saw the error of her ways. Not an equal exchange in my book. And that can't lie thing apparently only works on the Queens on some schedule that I can't discern. The rest of her court is composed of Fae keeping busy by knifing each other and plotting for personal gain. A plot is by definition a lie.

29
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 11, 2022, 08:49:08 PM »
Molly can use a phone because she is no longer human.  The Fae use technology constantly throughout the series. Mab has a yacht and a fleet of cars.  In Cold Days the Redcap rides a jet ski. Even Harry's effect  on technology is fading.  In Storm Front he walks the stairs to his office and now he rides elevators without thinking about it.

30
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 08, 2022, 02:20:26 AM »
i read that sentence in cold case, and bells and light bulbs were going off in my head. there's so much info here. but i just didn't see anyone commenting on this.
They'll get to it eventually when they come up for air.

The term lie is nebulous at best.  As far as I can tell Mab can't tell a straight up untruth, saying for instance the moon is made of cream cheese. She can certainly tell lies of omission.  The example that come to mind is when she takes Harry's blasting rod and his memories of ever having it in the first place.


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