I refuse to vote on the grounds I Can't pick more than one, because I can neither narrow it to just one... And or, I believe multiple people on the list to be the same anyway...Sorry, I'm looking for the current consensus and trending on the question. If folks could vote numerous times, it'd be less definitive.
If he is an undead or necromancy enhanced being, he could jump bodies or become others.True. Which is why I recommend going with the soul/consciousness in charge. If you think it's Kemmler in Pietrovich or DuMorne's body, then I'd say Kemmler.
Sorry, I'm looking for the current consensus and trending on the question. If folks could vote numerous times, it'd be less definitive.well, the above is my first choice actually, but given my tendancy to explore vague possibilities and recurring themes... I have these crazy idea's that dumorne was another alternate Harry or kemmler was, became dumorne. Something about the way he looked vs say, Odin. (I compare it well with clash of the Titans, Hades looked like a darker Zeus) he looks like a darker Odin who never lost the eye/gained knowledge. Which means he's just another version of the Merlin archatype... Or the possibility Rashid is the original Merlin/ dark variation of Odin... few other variations... Gah, I'll just go with Kemmler *i can't decide lol*
As for multiple people being the same, if you're thinking that there's something like Kemmler became DuMorne or something, then vote for the soul/consciousness you believe is in control.
If that's not what you mean, then I'd be interested in hearing about it. I don't know of any theories where any of the above are the same, given that they're all public personas.
Care to elaborate?
I went with Other....
Normally I would have voted for Simon, but I have a feeling that Harry can't sense anything familiar about Cowl. By now I'd figured he'd run into just about every Wizard at least once, or could at least recognized the style of magic.Who, then?
So I went with other.
Normally I would have voted for Simon, but I have a feeling that Harry can't sense anything familiar about Cowl. By now I'd figured he'd run into just about every Wizard at least once, or could at least recognized the style of magic.
Care to elaborate?
I just do not think he is anyone we know..
I just do not think he is anyone we know..
Indeed, I included an option for 'An unmet person'. 'Other ' was intended more for those who would vote for Rudolph the red nosed AI detective, but can't becausei forgot him.I just do not think he is anyone we know..Yeah. I'm not entirely sure JB yas decided who Cowl really is, so he very well might not be anyone we or Harry have met yet.So choice 2?
Simon though would have been my second choice on this poll.
Well, I was going to go with Rudolph, the red nosed IA detective. But since he wasn't listed as an option, I went with SimonI might be able to add Rudolph. He's up there with Larry Fowler for most annoying mortal that might actually be the Big Bad.
I had to go with Simon, like everyone else. I looked at all the choices and found the vase majority of them absurd. Simon's the only one that makes sense in the list given. No, I have no other candidates.Yup. But several are dead, so... who am I to nitpick?
Btw, wasn't Grevane on-screen with Cowl at the Darkhallow in DB? Cowl was there veiled as a "passive zombie" and stepped in when Ramirez took Grevane out, DB, Ch. 42.
Who is Cowl?Just sayin' :)
For the purpose of this poll, we're assuming that Harry's observation in Dead Beat is correct, and that Cowl is a mortal practitioner.
For the sake of keeping the list reasonable, Time Travel/Parallel Universe options have not been made available for anyone other than Harry.
Some that are listed seem highly unlikely, due to being dead, on-page with Cowl, the wrong gender, or some other limiting factor. But as some theorize that Simon could be Cowl, I've included others that are normally overlooked as well.
Curator's note: Griff followed my requested convention for this kind of thing by starting with "Other." If you vote "Other" please post your choice so that it may be added to the bottom of the list. Then you can change your vote to your actual choice. -Serack
There's a part of me that hopes it turns out to be Darth Wannabe or one of his friends. Mostly because of the look of incredulity on Harry's face when he recognized him, then realized that his archrival in a cowl does in fact have a dark mark tattoo.
So choice 2?
Indeed, I included an option for 'An unmet person'. 'Other ' was intended more for those who would vote for Rudolph the red nosed AI detective, but can't becausei forgot him.I might be able to add Rudolph. He's up there with Larry Fowler for most annoying mortal that might actually be the Big Bad.
Yup. But several are dead, so... who am I to nitpick?
Are you saying you changed your vote for most relevant short story?Oh absolutely not, The whole point is that he's the /least/ relevant character I can think of.
Oh absolutely not, The whole point is that he's the /least/ relevant character I can think of.
I had to change it to other,Not being contentious... just curious.
How's about, an alteration version of the original Merlin inside the same timeline.
Classically, Merlin exists backward through time in all timelines, but with the DR thing, 5 different times at the same time, I think 5 variation ended up in every timeline and grew off from there.
The film is based on the novel of the same name, which was first published in 1938 as a single novel. It was later republished in 1958 as the first book of T. H. White's tetralogy The Once and Future King. The Sword in the Stone was released to theaters on December 25, 1963 to mixed reviews, though it was a box office success.Wikipedia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_in_the_Stone_(film)
Not being contentious... just curious.
The "Merlin lives backwards" thing, as far as I remember, was the product/invention of T.H. White's Once and Future King and was later coopted by the Disney Corp. when they turned it into an animated film.Wikipedia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_in_the_Stone_(film)
I don't recall the "backwards" part actually being in the Disney film, nor do I recall the concept being embraced by Mary Stewart in her series which started with The Cristal Cave. The Arthurian legend has been a particular interest of mine for some time and I've read lots of stories (seen a lot of movies, too) of various levels of fact and fiction related to it but don't recall anything but White's story where Merlin is living in reverse time.
Do you have any references I can look at? I'd love to see what they have to say. tyvm
I once read a contemporary Arthurian series by an author named AA Antonasio told primarily from Merlin's POV, wherein Merlin was a demon/Fallen Angel that had been tricked into raping a woman and trapped in a human form which aged backward. Thereafter he forswore his sinful ways and started working toward redemption and attempting to earn his childhood and eventual (re)Birth. He was just aging backward though, not actually experiencing time backward or gaining knowledge of the future or anything. Was an interesting take on the whole mythology as it tried to set up a magical world that still mostly embraced the laws of physics. The Aesir, for example, were beings made of electromagnetic energy that inhabited the earth's magnetic field (which they perceived as The World Tree).Interesting. I've never been a fan of Antonasio... something about his writing style just rubs be the wrong way, so it's no surprise I missed that one. I'll probably have to look up Morris' stuff, though.
fwiw, according to tvtropes Gerald Morris' Arthurian novel The Squire's Tale uses this Merlin Sickness (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MerlinSickness) not for Merlin but for the hermit Trevisant. He ages normally but remembers less of the past and more of the future as time goes by,
Interesting. I've never been a fan of Antonasio... something about his writing style just rubs be the wrong way, so it's no surprise I missed that one. I'll probably have to look up Morris' stuff, though.Ill admit that it was the only series of his that I read, and it's been years since I touched them. The world was really interesting and well-done, and it started with Uther and built from there, which was nice. But as you say his style was weird and got more and more fringe as the the series went on. By the end it was written in the most chapters Ive ever seen, often only 1/2 a page long.
Thanks for the references.
Not being contentious... just curious.??? :o ;D you actually asked me this last time I posted something on this, in days long past when I was simply wizard Nelson... T.A. Barron is specifically the Merlin story I remember, his older self tells his younger self in the 4th book of the young Merlin stories, the mirror of Merlin "Things will get more interesting when you learn to live backwards through time as well." Or something to that effect. It's also part of Maerlyn's story in the dark tower, Stephen King. That work up has a few thread that can be pulled at related to the DF, nexus points in time, the main guy drawing three 'people' from beyond his current reality(reminds me of Harry and the three walkers coming in for him), his connection to death, but not for himself. Other things I'll hold to the chest.... It's one of the stories I wonder at Jim making only coincidental connections to actually, not Intentional ones but by leu of expounding a book of similar metaphysical qualities. Like mortal combat, one guy uses ice, the other fire, two sides of a war between realities, ect. Intentional? Or just another piece of the all inclusive mythos scheme?
The "Merlin lives backwards" thing, as far as I remember, was the product/invention of T.H. White's Once and Future King and was later coopted by the Disney Corp. when they turned it into an animated film.Wikipedia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_in_the_Stone_(film)
I don't recall the "backwards" part actually being in the Disney film, nor do I recall the concept being embraced by Mary Stewart in her series which started with The Cristal Cave. The Arthurian legend has been a particular interest of mine for some time and I've read lots of stories (seen a lot of movies, too) of various levels of fact and fiction related to it but don't recall anything but White's story where Merlin is living in reverse time.
Do you have any references I can look at? I'd love to see what they have to say. tyvm
This view of Merlin is canonical with the original written translation of the Arthurian cycle, "Le Morte d'Arthur" In it, Merlin is said to "remember what is in our future", and to "have no knowledge of what is in our past". He physically does not age, and this is never explained, only mentioned. There is never any reference to his perception of speech and motion being backwards as well. All in all, there is no reason to think that T. H. White’s Merlyn is any different from canonical Arthurian myth. Merlin living backwards is mentioned in "Excalibur", "Camelot", and "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" and a number of other stories.
I think Cowl=DuMorne=Kemmler. I think Kemmler body snatched DuMorne to escape the wardens then brought himself back when Harry merc'd him and is now parading around as Cowl.
Cowl uses pseudo-Slavic for his spells ("dorosh" is a Russian surname but no actual word in Russian, similar like Dresden pseudo-Latin) which suggest that he is from somewhere with Slavic ethnicity, like Russia, where Archangel, Simons stronghold is.It's been said that you shouldn't use your native language, or presumably anything too similar, to cast your spells, as you need a linguistic buffer to avoid casting during regular speech, or weakening the word association.
wrists as defense position against magical attack. Which is not a common or standard position since for example Peabody uses the "Doctor Strange" hand position to deflect attacks. If Cowl where Simon (who taught DuMorne) it would explain why he and Dresden ended up with the same magical gestures. From one master to the next student.I think JB or Harry said it was a pretty standard defensive gesture. Either way, and Vitto uses it, which is attributable to Cowl, and Before uses it, which makes sense if you buy into the Vitto/Before SWNoJ (Sure Why Not of Jim).
It's been said that you shouldn't use your native language, or presumably anything too similar, to cast your spells, as you need a linguistic buffer to avoid casting during regular speech, or weakening the word association.No different than Harry using Latin, or rather bastardized pseudo-latin. Harry is actually worse in that regard, as he was actively trying to learn to speak Latin
Simon using Slavic world be potentially dangerous.
No different than Harry using Latin, or rather bastardized pseudo-latin. Harry is actually worse in that regard, as he was actively trying to learn to speak LatinKnowing the language of the spells doesn't seem to be bad. It being your native language is.
Knowing the language of the spells doesn't seem to be bad. It being your native language is.It not an actual word, though. It's a common surname from that part of the world, but has no actual meaning in any active language, so no energy mishap danger.
Harry's not liable to use Latin in regular conversation. Yes, there may be roots that he runs into, but him accidently casting an ice spell while shopping for a fridge seems unlikely.
In comparison, a Slavic Russian using Slavic Russian words would be risking.
It not an actual word, though. It's a common surname from that part of the world, but has no actual meaning in any active language, so no energy mishap danger.So, no more dangerous than having a spell named "Smith" and being located in a country where there are plenty of Smiths.
So, no more dangerous than having a spell named "Smith" and being located in a country where there are plenty of Smiths.idk, I'd argue it's the actual thought form connected to the language. Wizardry grows in the mind similarly to actual language, where in eventual it stops becoming a conscious effort to understand the word or apply your own thought form. Instead your mind reproduces the idea in a chunk of memory with the associated effects with it. (It happens as wizards get better at their own spells too) Perhaps a 'smith' spell would get confabulated with a metalworking smith or a smith most well known them.
So, no more dangerous than having a spell named "Smith" and being located in a country where there are plenty of Smiths.Probably, ya. Though I suppose "Smith" can technically be a verb, maybe more like "Henderson" or "Beck" (Im just looking around the office)
I thought using a bastardize version of another language for magic keeps the user sane.But in GP, Harry says burn or something similar during his inferno spell at the party.im not entirely sure that was actually part of the spell or just his own punctuation for the situation, but he does mention the magic flying wild in his body and mind too so idk...
im not entirely sure that was actually part of the spell or just his own punctuation for the situation, but he does mention the magic flying wild in his body and mind too so idk...
I'm still thinking Christos with all his mysterious past, political control and enough power to be SC. I think his misguided attempts to stop death put him in the Circle camp with Nico and his attempt to become a saint.
He seems to use straight up English in high emotional moments. Burning down the Rampires at Bianca Ball as mentioned and while killing Arianna in Changes he didn't said forzare but "“No one touches my little girl.” to unleash his final spell. Although I have to admit that that was a missed opportunity by Butcher, he should have made Harry kill her by saying "Moo".i read this as being related to the Japanese doroshi, to throw, overturn. Which considering the actual action of the spell on Harry, makes perfect sense. It didn't kill him, because it was never the intention of the spell, it did toss him on his ass though.
For me "dorosh" is a pro-Petrovich argument because it is a modern Russian surname. Classically trained Wizards pick up some very obscure or dead language, (Morgan - classic Greek, DuMorne - ancient Egyptian, Molly - Japanese) and from what we gather they use the proper language. The only occasion where a Wizard bastardized a language is Dresden who uses pseudo-Latin because he can't use normal proper Latin since he uses it in White Council communication.
So a Wizard who uses a bastardized version of a language is exposed to the "proper" form of the language regularly, or uses it. Which means that Cowl knows/uses proper Russian since for his spells he has to bastardize it, hence why for me it a hint that he is Petrovich who had his stronghold Archangel in Russia.
I'd put money on Nico being against the Circle, not with them.I have to agree, and I think that it will force Nick and Harry to work together again, but that will be much harder after SG.
Has anyone pointed out that the assumption for the poll is stated to be Cowl is a mortal practitioner but the choices of the poll include characters that don't fit the description?All of the characters listed are, as far as we know, mortal.
I voted "Other" for one reason. I do think it's Harry. Not an AU or TT version, but the "darker self" that he had a few run-ins with inside his unconscious mind. I bet that's who, because, why not? Be a shame to invent such a wonderfully dark persona and not really do much with it, except for internal spoilers.If thats the case then cowl must be working for his best interests because that is what his dark side does. Primal Survival.
I voted "Other" for one reason. I do think it's Harry. Not an AU or TT version, but the "darker self" that he had a few run-ins with inside his unconscious mind. I bet that's who, because, why not? Be a shame to invent such a wonderfully dark persona and not really do much with it, except for internal spoilers.fairly sure MM harry will look like Harry's ID, and his ID will look like harry because that's the side he supresses in his jungian shadow/subconscious.
fairly sure MM harry will look like Harry's ID, and his ID will look like harry because that's the side he supresses in his jungian shadow/subconscious.I just dont see how anyone, no matter how nihilistic or prone to masochism, would willingly choose, even subconsciously, to look at battered as Harry now does with the oft-broken nose and other facial scars.
I don't think it can be an unmet character - otherwise why hide his face.There are plenty of reasons for Dark Wizards to hide their faces. The simplest one: So that nobody can describe their appearance.
There are plenty of reasons for Dark Wizards to hide their faces. The simplest one: So that nobody can describe their appearance.I'm failing to find the passage at the moment, but somewhere it was mentioned that a decent photo can sometimes be enough for a thaumaturigical link. I expect that Cowl plans on a higher tier of power than most. Recall the lesson Ferro taught Harry about what the Big Boys can do with only a fragment of his Name, I tend to think a photo would provide a similarly weak link that might still prove a liability when going against the Big Fish of the world.
I just listened to the exchange between Harry and Cowl in front of Bock Ordered Books.How about a MM Harry?
I tried to listen to it as though it was a TT Harry come back to interact with an earlier Harry, and I really cannot see that, based on what Cowl said.
Now, it's entirely possible that the WK mantle would change the words that Harry would want to say, like Molly's did to her, but again, that seems to be a stretch.
How about a MM Harry?
Not having met a MM Harry, I really couldn't say.No, I mean did it sound like it could fit a person that was Harry, just not the future of /that/ harry?
Can I throw a new one on the fire? Cowl is Carlos' mentor and kumori is a fellow trainee of said Master. For kumori, it's the weird mesh glove similar to Carlos' in WK. now we need to ask who trained Carlos and is he [carlos] a plant?Carlos was confirmed to have been one of the brown-robed apprentices in SK, so whomever his mentor is/was, they were on the Council as of then.
Carlos was confirmed to have been one of the brown-robed apprentices in SK, so whomever his mentor is/was, they were on the Council as of then.
I voted Cristos, but a deep reread of Dead Beat has me thinking that, based solely on just that book, Cowl's first named appearance in the series, Cowl must be DuMorne. Jim subtly slides in plenty of information about DuMorne in Dead Beat, and Cowl knows what DuMorne would know, like that Harry has the Word of Kemmler right there in Bob.My issue with DuMorne, aside from him being dead, is that he'd know just how dangerous Harry was, and the wardens comment would be out of place.
My issue with DuMorne, aside from him being dead, is that he'd know just how dangerous Harry was, and the wardens comment would be out of place.I have my own theories about his 'death' but, I actually read that the opposite. When he attacks harry its with the air of the old master testing out his long lost student. "disappointed, thought you were ready for the big leagues." or something similar. Compare that to anything you can think of with long lost mentor and them wanting to test their student. Only example that directly comes to mind is Stick and Daredevil.
It's probably been suggested somewhere before, but I couldn't find it.Is this a theory or a WOJ? I always thought Kemmler and by extension Cowl used Necromancy to survive death curses, it would fit the theme of each of Kemmler's apprentices using one of his abilities, and Cowl being the most dangerous chose the most useful ability.
Mirror Mirror Harry saves his ass by pulling other Harrys out of their universes and lets them bite the dust for him. It's supposedly a trick he copied from Kemmler, who used it a couple of times. (his Bob might have still had the knowledge and shared it with him)
I was thinking that maybe Cowl is one such Kemmler from another universe. The one who managed to make sure that the trick didn't work this time. Hence his contempt for the loser Kemmler and his lackeys. Despite the fact that he shares most of their hobbies. He hasn't figured out how to get home yet, or maybe he doesn't want to because he's better off in this universe.
So far I haven't come up with a showstopper for this idea. If you find one, take it apart please :)
Is this a theory or a WOJ? I always thought Kemmler and by extension Cowl used Necromancy to survive death curses, it would fit the theme of each of Kemmler's apprentices using one of his abilities, and Cowl being the most dangerous chose the most useful ability.To the best of my knowledge it not confirmed anywhere that Kemmler used it, and Im not even sure it was confirmed that MM Harry had done it before. But I dont recall the details of the original source on those, so I cant say that for certain.
To the best of my knowledge it not confirmed anywhere that Kemmler used it, and Im not even sure it was confirmed that MM Harry had done it before. But I dont recall the details of the original source on those, so I cant say that for certain.Not sure either, I remember it was quote on MM harry and how he kept doing that. Then people applied the logic of, He learned it from evil Bob, and came out with Kemmler dying multiple times probably included other versions.
I'm 99% certain that there was a WoJ stating that MM Harry (-Harry) has summoned other versions of himself previously, and Harry will be the latest.I couldn't even find the one about alternate Harry pulling him into his reality to die instead of him. Though it's been mentioned a lot. Here e. g.
The rest, about Kemmler doing it, and Bob teaching -Harry how to do it, is just speculation. Good speculation, but theory nonetheless.
I'm 99% certain that there was a WoJ stating that MM Harry (-Harry) has summoned other versions of himself previously, and Harry will be the latest.Hey, that's what I just said ???
The rest, about Kemmler doing it, and Bob teaching -Harry how to do it, is just speculation. Good speculation, but theory nonetheless.
Hey, that's what I just said ???Indeed. Griff was supporting you ;)
Indeed. With unsourced evidence and irrelevant statistics. Which is about the best I can provide these days. :DHey, that's what I just said ???Indeed. Griff was supporting you ;)
Indeed. Griff was supporting you ;)Bah, statistics are always irrelevant. :) Chaos theory proves if you look at a statistical system the same pattern will repeat itself on every scale. Plus scientists willingly admit that numbers are made up constructs we use as placeholders to define reality. Which is probably good correlation for why 2+2=5 came outa something from beyond reality ???
Indeed. With unsourced evidence and irrelevant statistics. Which is about the best I can provide these days. :D
Cowl uses pseudo-Slavic for his spells ("dorosh" is a Russian surname but no actual word in Russian, similar like Dresden pseudo-Latin) which suggest that he is from somewhere with Slavic ethnicities, like Russia, where Archangel, Simons stronghold is. Similar to Dresden who doesn't use proper Latin for his spells but bastardises it because he uses the real thing. Where he NOT from Russia (or around) he could use proper Russian for his spells.This doesn't make sense to me. Harry uses Latin because it's not a language he uses with any frequency (other than as root words), which provides a mental buffer between magical and linguistic meaning.
Additionally, Cristos is a perfect Red Herring because we know Harry suspects him of being in league with the circle. Literature wise, this makes him a prime candidate for NOT being who Dresden thinks he is.But it's so simple. All we have to do is divine from what we know of JB: is he the sort of man who would put the secret identity in front of us, or off page? Now, a clever man would make the secret identity secret, because he would know that only a great fool would choose the option that he was given. We are not great fools, so we can clearly not choose the choice in front of us. But he must have known we are not great fools, he would have counted on it, so we can clearly not choose the choice hidden from us.
This doesn't make sense to me. Harry uses Latin because it's not a language he uses with any frequency (other than as root words), which provides a mental buffer between magical and linguistic meaning.
In contrast, you're suggesting that a Russian living in Russia that probably uses Russian frequently is using Russian words as his magical language, thus resulting in no buffer.
That's the exact opposite of what Harry is doing.
But it's so simple. All we have to do is divine from what we know of JB: is he the sort of man who would put the secret identity in front of us, or off page? Now, a clever man would make the secret identity secret, because he would know that only a great fool would choose the option that he was given. We are not great fools, so we can clearly not choose the choice in front of us. But he must have known we are not great fools, he would have counted on it, so we can clearly not choose the choice hidden from us.
But, that's what he wants us to think. He's originally from Missouri, which is the Show-Me state, so he would obviously put the choice in front of us to be seen. But he's now moved to Colorado, the Centennial State, who took a hundred years to finally become a state, so clearly he would wait for the hidden choice to be revealed in due time!
In fact, it's obvious! He's given everything away! We know who Cowl is! JB fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against a fan when theories are on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha..
(http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/VizziniDeath.gif)
INCONCEIVABLE! I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT ! :)I'm solidly in the Cristos camp, so it's hard for me to be objective. LaFortier seems technically possible, given what we know of faking one's death. But from a "feels right" perspective, it doesn't, at least for me.
What do you think of the theory though? I think what you mentioned about Simon's language adds to my evidence. Or maybe thats what Jim wants to think, but he would have know this, so....
The problem with LaFortier being Cowl is simple. We have seen his body.
Not only did we see his body but also Merlin the strongest Wizard in the world, and Listen-To-Wind the best magical healer in the world have seen his body. Not only have those two exceptionally powerful Wizards (one of them an unquestionable master in the knowledge of the human body) seen the corpses, they also did heavy duty investigative thaumaturgy and examination with said body.
To, after that, still trying to claim LaFortie could have faked his death somehow, is a wee bit on the tinfoil hat side of theories.
Unless your theory is that LaFortier was Cowl, and Cowl is unknowingly to as dead already. After all the last time we saw Cowl was in White Night, and LaFortier died in Turn Coat.
I'm solidly in the Cristos camp, so it's hard for me to be objective. LaFortier seems technically possible, given what we know of faking one's death. But from a "feels right" perspective, it doesn't, at least for me.Ohh, I like this idea about Harry and Kumori\Elaine. Hope Butcher sees it and "make it so."
As for Kumori, I expect the reveal to be similar to the Bruce/Selina reveal in Batman Returns. Quite suddenly, unexpectedly, there's going to be a private moment of revelation in a public place between Harry and Elaine, where he realizes she's Kumori based on something she said, and she realizes he knows.
And they'll both smile through the pain. And they'll dance, and try to figure out how they can stop the reality of it from crashing down on them. And then they'll realize they can't, and after finding and losing each other so many times, their relationship is over, and they'll never have another chance.
And then she'll walk away, and he'll let her, because he can't do anything else.
Yes, Cowl as trying to up his power, with rituals that take whole cities as a sacrifice. You think you can do that unnoticed and then go to work the next day meeting the most powerful and knowledgeable Wizards in the world?
Dresden who is a supernatural thug and is crapy with his supernatural sense can detect small black magic rituals days after they have been done. To claim that you can hide Dark Hallow equivalents from SC, Wardens, and who knows how many other Wizards, not to mention the multitude of ancient and powerful Wards around Edinburgh is absurd.
And the knife was explained. To do magic you have to believe in it, brainwashing Luccio to attack an SC with magic would have necessitated such strong mind manipulation that it would leave traces (and probably break her psyche too) defeating the point of framing her and Morgan in the first place.
With enough power you can hide anything. Plus that may very well be the reason he faked his death, so that he didn't have to play council anymore. I don't see a problem here, especially since we know cowl was able to change the appearance of things.Right after Harry gets accused of letting The reds in because he understood the wards from master to apprentice(another point for nonstandard equipment on wardens fyi) Elaine the missing link shows up and jiggers her way through HIS wards because they had the same master so she knew them. The answer is simple, she's a 'delicate' thrall to Justin and she let the reds in so he could recover a suitable body via his old master Simon. ;)
Thats one explanation for the knife. Or its precisely the kind of cover that would make no one notice.
Yes, Cowl as trying to up his power, with rituals that take whole cities as a sacrifice. You think you can do that unnoticed and then go to work the next day meeting the most powerful and knowledgeable Wizards in the world?
Dresden who is a supernatural thug and is crapy with his supernatural sense can detect small black magic rituals days after they have been done. To claim that you can hide Dark Hallow equivalents from SC, Wardens, and who knows how many other Wizards, not to mention the multitude of ancient and powerful Wards around Edinburgh is absurd.
And the knife was explained. To do magic you have to believe in it, brainwashing Luccio to attack an SC with magic would have necessitated such strong mind manipulation that it would leave traces (and probably break her psyche too) defeating the point of framing her and Morgan in the first place.
Ohh, I like this idea about Harry and Kumori\Elaine. Hope Butcher sees it and "make it so."From what I hear, that would "make it less so."
This doesn't make sense to me. Harry uses Latin because it's not a language he uses with any frequency (other than as root words), which provides a mental buffer between magical and linguistic meaning.No, it's not, because nobody is using actual Russian or actual Latin; both are using bastardized words that utilize the same general phonetics and (in Harry's case) preserves the meanings from the Root words, but are not actual word in an active Language. The example word "dorosh" is not a Russian word, it's a Russian Surname. It would be more along the lines of Harry turning "Schmitt" or maybe "Denning" into a magic word.
In contrast, you're suggesting that a Russian living in Russia that probably uses Russian frequently is using Russian words as his magical language, thus resulting in no buffer.
That's the exact opposite of what Harry is doing.
You know, it could be that Cowl is ElvisNah, couldnt be: They found Amelia Earhart recently, and everyone knows Elvis was hanging out with her all this time.
No, it's not, because nobody is using actual Russian or actual Latin; both are using bastardized words that utilize the same general phonetics and (in Harry's case) preserves the meanings from the Root words, but are not actual word in an active Language. The example word "dorosh" is not a Russian word, it's a Russian Surname. It would be more along the lines of Harry turning "Schmitt" or maybe "Denning" into a magic word.Using surnames for people in the region which you live would be just as bad as using common words. Even if you don't know a Dorosh when you're learning magic, if you meet someone later, you might inadvertently crush them with a wall of energy when you call out to them on the street.
If Harry can use Pseudo-latin while simultaneously trying to actually become Fluent in that same language, then the Buffer doesnt have to be as wide as we might think.
Using surnames for people in the region which you live would be just as bad as using common words. Even if you don't know a Dorosh when you're learning magic, if you meet someone later, you might inadvertently crush them with a wall of energy when you call out to them on the street.If harry can safely use is fake-latin and still actually work towards Latin fluency, I really dont think the danger is as absolute as all that.
If harry can safely use is fake-latin and still actually work towards Latin fluency, I really dont think the danger is as absolute as all that.I think there's a big difference between a primary language and a second language that one has to deliberately think about when using, which would likely cause a disconnect of its own between linguistic and magical meanings.
I think there's a big difference between a primary language and a second language that one has to deliberately think about when using, which would likely cause a disconnect of its own between linguistic and magical meanings.No longer having to "deliberately think about" it was, I thought, the defining trait of "Fluency"? Granted Im an ignorant single-language American, so I have no first-hand experience.
I'm not saying Harry's use of latin is ideal, but it's not as bad as using your primary language.
No longer having to "deliberately think about" it was, I thought, the defining trait of "Fluency"? Granted Im an ignorant single-language American, so I have no first-hand experience.It's not nonsense. It's a surname used in the region Simon lived. It's a surname more common (http://forebears.io/surnames/dorosh) on both a global and regional scale than Butters (http://forebears.io/surnames/butters), Peabody (http://forebears.io/surnames/peabody), Langtry (http://forebears.io/surnames/langtry), Liberty (http://forebears.io/surnames/liberty), Luccio (http://forebears.io/surnames/luccio), Marcone (http://forebears.io/surnames/marcone), and, of course, Dresden (http://forebears.io/surnames/dresden)
But now you are saying that using a language youre fluent in is fine, but using nonsense words that share your primary language's phonetics (aka cultural surnames names) is going to cause all kinds of trouble. That still feels off to me.
Using surnames for people in the region which you live would be just as bad as using common words. Even if you don't know a Dorosh when you're learning magic, if you meet someone later, you might inadvertently crush them with a wall of energy when you call out to them on the street.FYI Dorosh could be another Japanese word like Kumori. Doroshi means to drop or throw. So Cowl's spell/intention to drop Harry on his ass becomes much more intelligible than his surnaming him to death. Wizards despite using quasi language formats tend to use words or phrases that have some meaning to their intention.
It's not nonsense. It's a surname used in the region Simon lived. It's a surname more common (http://forebears.io/surnames/dorosh) on both a global and regional scale than Butters (http://forebears.io/surnames/butters), Peabody (http://forebears.io/surnames/peabody), Langtry (http://forebears.io/surnames/langtry), Liberty (http://forebears.io/surnames/liberty), Luccio (http://forebears.io/surnames/luccio), Marcone (http://forebears.io/surnames/marcone), and, of course, Dresden (http://forebears.io/surnames/dresden)Regardless, I still dont see why you think that surnames would be a problem while words from an actual language you are fluent in would not.
Simon would be more likely to run into a Russian with the surname Dorosh than a German would be to run into a German named Dresden.
Regardless, I still dont see why you think that surnames would be a problem while words from an actual language you are fluent in would not.He's not fluent. It's a language choice made under the tutelage of DuMorne, who had no intention of letting Harry interact with the White Council. There was no concern for overlap until Harry joined. It's therefore not the best language for him to use. But there's still less overlap on a daily basis for obscure Latin than there is regional surnames.
He's not fluent. It's a language choice made under the tutelage of DuMorne, who had no intention of letting Harry interact with the White Council. There was no concern for overlap until Harry joined. It's therefore not the best language for him to use. But there's still less overlap on a daily basis for obscure Latin than there is regional surnames.He's not fluent only because he chose the incorrect means of learning (damn correspondence course), not for lack of Trying. Which means that, to the best of both Harry and McCoy's Knowledge, it would not have cause him issues.
He's not fluent only because he chose the incorrect means of learning (damn correspondence course), not for lack of Trying. Which means that, to the best of both Harry and McCoy's Knowledge, it would not have cause him issues.Because it's a language he doesn't use on a daily basis. They're words he's not at risk of saying.
Because it's a language he doesn't use on a daily basis. They're words he's not at risk of saying.By that logic Harry should be at risk using any words with latin or germanic roots. I just think you are extending this effect way further than is described or supported.
A Russian using Russian anything is inherently more dangerous, based on what Harry has said in the books.
By that logic Harry should be at risk using any words with latin or germanic roots. I just think you are extending this effect way further than is described or supported.In the books, Harry says he and many other wizards use unfamiliar languages to create a buffer that helps the mind of the caster and prevent unintentional castings.
Or, maybe, he isn't worried about protecting a mind that has already gone crazy.He would have been young when he leaned spells.
Hi, I'm new. I've read each Dresden book at minimum six times, and some many, many more. I've also watched every Q&A session Jim had at least twice.Welcome, and theorize away! It's been said that JB avoids some theories and all fan fictions for reasons, but guessing correctly won't hurt anything. He just wouldn't confirm it.
I've basically convinced myself that I know exactly who Cowl is, based off of a ton of hints and logical conclusions through the series. I really want to post it here, but I'm worried that it violates the rule about story ideas. I would hate for Jim to not do this because I went in depth.
Am I being a little neurotic, and is it OK to post in-depth theory?
Hi, I'm new. I've read each Dresden book at minimum six times, and some many, many more. I've also watched every Q&A session Jim had at least twice.Just so long as it's wrong and agreeable lol.
I've basically convinced myself that I know exactly who Cowl is, based off of a ton of hints and logical conclusions through the series. I really want to post it here, but I'm worried that it violates the rule about story ideas. I would hate for Jim to not do this because I went in depth.
Am I being a little neurotic, and is it OK to post in-depth theory?
He would have been young when he leaned spells.Has Harry ever used an English word while using magic? I am thinking of GP with big finale to Bianca's party. I would think that being in an aggitated emotional state would be the same as temporary insanity, thus making the use of a magically safe language unnnecessary.
Welcome, and theorize away! It's been said that JB avoids some theories and all fan fictions for reasons, but guessing correctly won't hurt anything. He just wouldn't confirm it.
Has Harry ever used an English word while using magic? I am thinking of GP with big finale to Bianca's party. I would think that being in an aggitated emotional state would be the same as temporary insanity, thus making the use of a magically safe language unnnecessary.Nope, very specifically. He did No Language once in FM, and it rocked his world and left him with lingering hallucinations. The closest thing so far is while he was a ghost and did the whole "I Am" thing to materialize. Other than that, the only kind of spell spoken in the caster's own language is the Deathcurse, which as you say doesnt really care about safety.
Well, instead of trying to stop the Dark Hallow like Dresden did, he attempts to absorb the power, which would have resulted in thousands of innocents dead. But then again, Harry considers taking this very action in Changes when deciding how to regain his power. Jim’s stated that Harry really could have gone one of three ways. So it’s not outside of an Alterna-Harry to do something as horribly corrupt and evil as the murder of thousands, if ‘good man’ Harry could have done it to save the ones he loved.Im confident Harry would not have still been much of a Good Man if he'd directly killed millions of humans with Magic for a pure Power grab. It messed him up pretty good to kill /one/, and only with a Knife. And that's setting aside the uber-dose of Black Magic Taint he'd get that would have him twisting a mustache before he could even grow it. Jim said Harry could have gone one of three ways, but said nothign about Harry remaining a Good Guy throughout. Hell, he's rather vague on whether Harry is a Good Guy at any given time, usually defaulting to the fact that Harry /thinks/ he's the good guy (as all the best Villains do).
Cowl was silent for a long moment in the rain. Drops fell off the end of my pistol in his gloved hand. Then he said, his voice, pensive, “I do not perceive myself to be mad. But if I were truly mad, would I be able to tell?”
I shivered. Probably from the rain and the cold.
However, I think that in a world in which Cowl did not exist, it wouldn’t have been Harry’s fate to die there.time travel man, If cowl collecting the books cause the timeline to shift he shunted himself out of reality by causing the confrontation that got him killed in the first place. But why wouldn't they stop by a bookstore known to carry such things as you are looking for anyway? they went looking for sure.
Im confident Harry would not have still been much of a Good Man if he'd directly killed millions of humans with Magic for a pure Power grab. It messed him up pretty good to kill /one/, and only with a Knife. And that's setting aside the uber-dose of Black Magic Taint he'd get that would have him twisting a mustache before he could even grow it. Jim said Harry could have gone one of three ways, but said nothign about Harry remaining a Good Guy throughout. Hell, he's rather vague on whether Harry is a Good Guy at any given time, usually defaulting to the fact that Harry /thinks/ he's the good guy (as all the best Villains do).
Jim said Harry could have gone one of three ways,That's interesting as all hell, I've never heard that before... could you point me to a direct source? Not that I don't believe you, just the opposite... I wanna hear or read this verbatim. This would allow me to heavily revise my theories in multiple places.
Just checking on the Darkhallow on the wiki.Best non-Human killing site I can think of is Chitzen Itza. It's got massive amounts of dense, non-human life in the jungle, it has millennia of accumulated warrior and hunter Ghosts, it's a giant confluence of ley lines, and it's recently been the site of Huge Magics that would errode/weaken the barrier to the next world. All the critical elements that Chicago had, minus the human population. Granted I think non-human life is going to be massively less powerful for the same reason that non-human zombies are massively less powerful. ON the other hand, the ghosts gathered there are a lot older than many of the ghosts they were able to bring to Chicago with that museum exhibit combined with the Erlking.
Incidentally, I see no reason you could not do a dark hallow on yourself without doing anything unethical. You would just need to do it somewhere remote where there would not be any innocent people that might get caught in it.
Just go up to like the Northwest Territory or out in a boat on the ocean etc. Then bring with you a load a zombies or something. You could even bring just animal zombies if some some odd reason humans bothered you. You would get less power, but you would still get alot of power. An no one gets killed. You could even use a massive circle or something to make sure the Vortex doesnt grab anything any further out than you desire.
Harry should do this in the books. Hell, he could just go do it like like 9 times. He could sit on demon reach which is sufficiently remote, dark hallow over and over, and then go wipe out Mab. She couldnt even come to the island to stop him!
Muahahahaahahahaha!
OR.
Harry could darkhallow the stuff thats imprisoned in demonreach........heh heh heh heh. Rubs hands together maniacally.
Just checking on the Darkhallow on the wiki.How would he darkhallow himself? If he puts one life into the boiling pot how much energy comes out the other side? One souls worth. Without death, without raw soul/creation to allow change, How would it be darkhallow at all? it'be be comparable to what he did to Kravos, after he expelled all the memetic power, nothing would be left.
Incidentally, I see no reason you could not do a dark hallow on yourself without doing anything unethical. You would just need to do it somewhere remote where there would not be any innocent people that might get caught in it.
Just go up to like the Northwest Territory or out in a boat on the ocean etc. Then bring with you a load a zombies or something. You could even bring just animal zombies if some some odd reason humans bothered you. You would get less power, but you would still get alot of power. An no one gets killed. You could even use a massive circle or something to make sure the Vortex doesnt grab anything any further out than you desire.
Harry should do this in the books. Hell, he could just go do it like like 9 times. He could sit on demon reach which is sufficiently remote, dark hallow over and over, and then go wipe out Mab. She couldnt even come to the island to stop him!
Muahahahaahahahaha!
OR.
Harry could darkhallow the stuff thats imprisoned in demonreach........heh heh heh heh. Rubs hands together maniacally.
How would he darkhallow himself? If he puts one life into the boiling pot how much energy comes out the other side? One souls worth. Without death, without raw soul/creation to allow change, How would it be darkhallow at all? it'be be comparable to what he did to Kravos, after he expelled all the memetic power, nothing would be left.
Because the darkhallow doesnt just pool energy from human life. See the wiki page.That "You are what you eat..." :-\
What do you guys think of dark hallowing the stuff in demon reach. That would have to be a crap ton of power.
That "You are what you eat..." :-\
Because the darkhallow doesnt just pool energy from human life. See the wiki page.;D see the wiki page! lol see the woj's, read the books, don't get info through second hand interpretations. See the old thread in the DF reference where how the dark hallow works was explained the best. Per woj, the more who die the greater the power up. As I see it If you combine spirit and soul you get 'life', the essential ingredient in magical power. I could go edit the wiki and then what would you cite? wouldn't be the first time I corrected a Wikipedia error. A lot of interpreted theories end up in the DF wiki as 'fact' though.
What do you guys think of dark hallowing the stuff in demon reach. That would have to be a crap ton of power.
;D see the wiki page! lol see the woj's, read the books, don't get info through second hand interpretations. See the old thread in the DF reference where how the dark hallow works was explained the best. Per woj, the more who die the greater the power up. As I see it If you combine spirit and soul you get 'life', the essential ingredient in magical power. I could go edit the wiki and then what would you cite? wouldn't be the first time I corrected a Wikipedia error. A lot of interpreted theories end up in the DF wiki as 'fact' though.
Your not even refuting the specifics. Quantus also stated the DH would absorb ghosts. Good grief man, if your going to say something is wrong post something specific to counter it.One soul plus zero souls equals one souls worth of life. Harry ate Kravos's ghost but didn't kept the power because(woj) there was no death involved, no sacrifice or transfer of life power. He could eat all the things in Dr but if theres no life or soul involved, theres no fundamental act of change, of fusion of disparate parts. good grief how many ways do I gotta say it?
One soul plus zero souls equals one souls worth of life. Harry ate Kravos's ghost but didn't kept the power because(woj) there was no death involved, no sacrifice or transfer of life power. He could eat all the things in Dr but if theres no life or soul involved, theres no fundamental act of change, of fusion of disparate parts. good grief how many ways do I gotta say it?
Does it say that though with regards to the dark hallow in the books? Also I cant help but think that Harry's free will probably remain intact. So he might have some new "urges" like with the WK mantle, but nothing to be alarmed about. Also like the WK mantle.Fundamental difference, the mantle is made in such a way you can shunt it off of you, a possession or outright fusion with something wouldn't be able to do that with I think.
Demon reach Dark Hallow + Itza Dark Hallow + WK Mantle = Mab is screwed.
Maybe alternate harrry already did something like this.
Dresden knows that the island is dark, and knows that it’s a node and likely has the amount of power he needs – but at this point in the story, he doesn’t know what the island is. I could see him having the Scooby Gang take him out there, telling them to sail a few miles out, and performing the rite. It would seem like the least problematic option. But by absorbing even part of the essence of what is trapped down there… Dresden would, for certain, be Changed.
Please show me where in the book or WOJ we know for certain Dresden would be morally altered by this act. This seems like pure speculation to me.Gatekeeper straight up says so in SmF.
Gatekeeper straight up says so in SmF.
Do you know what chapter? I am searching my book on ibooks but it only turned up one mention of the GK int he entire book.TC when Harry arrives with Molly and Thomas on the island Rashid is hidden on the what's up dock. I couldn't tell you what CH.
TC when Harry arrives with Molly and Thomas on the island Rashid is hidden on the what's up dock. I couldn't tell you what CH.
He states Dresden is years away from being able to do so. Which objectively means that it is possible to do so without being altered.And if your paying attention to Don's post you notice he specifically says 'at this point in the story' he's talking about before cold days when Harry learned what the island does. If harry had used a DH before CD he wouldn't have known. Your arguing a non-germane point there sir.
And if your paying attention to Don's post you notice he specifically says 'at this point in the story' he's talking about before cold days when Harry learned what the island does. If harry had used a DH before CD he wouldn't have known. Your arguing a non-germane point there sir.
This is why I started a separate thread. My idea here is not limited exclusively to that specific point of time.give or take 3-4 hundred, or thousand, who knows?
But this gatekeeper statement still proves that it is possible. And that getting ready is just a matter of years in the keepers estimation.
give or take 3-4 hundred, or thousand, who knows?
Given the GK's knowledge, and the fast that IIRC wizards life hundreds, not thousands of years, I think he meant alot sooner than that.Ok well your entitled to that opinion, just remember everybody else is entitled to theirs too. Like i'm of the opinion someone whose as ridiculously 'old' as the GK and the fact his time info funneling may mean he views time entirely different, means he probably doesn't think too deep on measuring it.
Also when someone says years, they usually mean a length of time less than a decade. Or you would just say your "decades, or centuries" away from being ready.
put in a Batman-sized level of planningthese emoji buttons don't work for me directly, but suffice it to say I literally laughed til I cried there.
Shift8 - yeah, it actually did start as pure speculation, but Jonas makes an excellent point. When the Gatekeeper warns Harry in Turn Coat, he specifically does reference that drawing on the power could change him, and that he's not ready. "Do not tap into the power of this place's well. You are years away from being able to handle such a thing without being altered by it." It's true that this does mean that it's possible for Harry to draw on it and not be changed, but I don't think that the Gatekeeper was counting on Harry taking that power, swirling it into a vortex, and drinking it to dramatically change his being into becoming a god. Quite simply, using it for a working might change him. Using it to form himself into a higher form of being would likely change him even more.
And yes, this is all still conjecture. But it's good conjecture, backed up by solid fact and logical conclusions. The best sort. In any case, I don't think that Jim would have had a loophole so big that anyone could just do the Dark Hallow for free without negative consequence as long as they put in a Batman-sized level of planning.
I would actually think it would be necessary for the DH not to alter people, otherwise it would be useless and no one would attempt it. No point in gaining power if your persona is so changed you forgot what you came to grocery store for.But nobodies ever used it, technically even Kemmler doesn't know for sure what would happen in the end, he only presumed. Maybe it is useless and crazy but nobody knows that?
But nobodies ever used it, technically even Kemmler doesn't know for sure what would happen in the end, he only presumed. Maybe it is useless and crazy but nobody knows that?
I would actually think it would be necessary for the DH not to alter people, otherwise it would be useless and no one would attempt it. No point in gaining power if your persona is so changed you forgot what you came to grocery store for.
I would actually think it would be necessary for the DH not to alter people, otherwise it would be useless and no one would attempt it. No point in gaining power if your persona is so changed you forgot what you came to grocery store for.By that logic nobody would use Black Magic ever, since it innately warps you on a supernatural level.
One soul plus zero souls equals one souls worth of life. Harry ate Kravos's ghost but didn't kept the power because(woj) there was no death involved, no sacrifice or transfer of life power. He could eat all the things in Dr but if theres no life or soul involved, theres no fundamental act of change, of fusion of disparate parts. good grief how many ways do I gotta say it?Life and Soul are two different energies. The Darkhallow was operating entirely in the Life vs Death Energy spectrum and does not affect the Soul. The way I see it, the Darkhallow sucks out all the Chi/Life Energy (which is also the core energy of mortal magic), killing in basically the same way as a wizards Deathcurse kills them, as opposed to SoulFire which drains Soul and combines it with Magic; Harry wondered once what the fallout would be from a Deathcurse backed by Soulfire.
By that logic nobody would use Black Magic ever, since it innately warps you on a supernatural level.and archangels. your forgetting the broader implications of what a soul is, energy, the power of creation itself, that which give mortals choice. life is a distillation of soul, and magic is a distillation of life, through emotions, experiences, ect. so it's all the same thing, it's just different levels of refined purity. Remember Uriel made Harry 'more of what you already are', not something else entirely. He... took his ability to say, drive a car, and showed him how it correlates to driving his jumbo jet instead. Still driving(flying, ok technicality, still operating anyway) and it's still magic if Uriels being accurate. When you kill a sacrifice what are you doing but taking it's current primer charger and expending it all at once? the soul inside is the generator.
Life and Soul are two different energies. The Darkhallow was operating entirely in the Life vs Death Energy spectrum and does not affect the Soul. The way I see it, the Darkhallow sucks out all the Chi/Life Energy (which is also the core energy of mortal magic), killing in basically the same way as a wizards Deathcurse kills them, as opposed to SoulFire which drains Soul and combines it with Magic; Harry wondered once what the fallout would be from a Deathcurse backed by Soulfire.
Soul is (so far) restricted to Mortals (vanilla or wizard), Half-born (ex WCV), and Offshoot Hominids (my best guess for the Sasquatch). I have no idea about animals, but I do know are entirely valid targets of Necromancy in general and so presumably of the Darkhallow. It would just need to be a Quantity over Quality difference, and Ive no clue how that balance falls out.
and archangels. your forgetting the broader implications of what a soul is, energy, the power of creation itself, that which give mortals choice. life is a distillation of soul, and magic is a distillation of life, through emotions, experiences, ect. so it's all the same thing, it's just different levels of refined purity. Remember Uriel made Harry 'more of what you already are', not something else entirely. He... took his ability to say, drive a car, and showed him how it correlates to driving his jumbo jet instead. Still driving(flying, ok technicality, still operating anyway) and it's still magic if Uriels being accurate. When you kill a sacrifice what are you doing but taking it's current primer charger and expending it all at once? the soul inside is the generator.This is an interesting theory but it is not supported by anything Ive seen in the context of the DV. Uriel never once says they are the same thing, not even close.
This is an interesting theory but it is not supported by anything Ive seen in the context of the DV. Uriel never once says they are the same thing, not even close.He specifically says what I quoted, he made Harry more of what he already was. similar isn't the same, but he didn't have to fundamentally change harry to get him throwing soulfire. Car that runs on gas or vegetable oil better comparison?
He specifically says what I quoted, he made Harry more of what he already was. similar isn't the same, but he didn't have to fundamentally change harry to get him throwing soulfire. Car that runs on gas or vegetable oil better comparison?Ok, how does "More that what you already are" translate to "Magic and Soul are actually all the same thing"? Because you didnt say similar, you said actually "all the Same Thing". Just because Rebar and Concrete are both used to make a building does not mean they the same material.
How about an electric car that's hybrid to run with gas as well so when it needs extra power its available?
Ok, how does "More that what you already are" translate to "Magic and Soul are actually all the same thing"? Because you didnt say similar, you said actually "all the Same Thing". Just because Rebar and Concrete are both used to make a building does not mean they the same material.But a construction worker is always just a construction worker no? their not the same, they are similar, Rebar and concrete are both building blocks. Soul and spirit are both part of your essence. magic, life, soul, all part of that same creative energy.
But a construction worker is always just a construction worker no? their not the same, they are similar, Rebar and concrete are both building blocks. Soul and spirit are both part of your essence. magic, life, soul, all part of that same creative energy.OK, i went to find the context of this (in my opinion unrelated) quote you are basing your theory on. It wasnt Uriel that said it, it was Mab, who said in response to Harry's What has he done to me: “That is a question only you can answer. But I can say this much: He has given you the potential to be more of what you are.”
OK, i went to find the context of this (in my opinion unrelated) quote you are basing your theory on. It wasnt Uriel that said it, it was Mab, who said in response to Harry's What has he done to me: “That is a question only you can answer. But I can say this much: He has given you the potential to be more of what you are.”Na I just got this theory the body is the generator of life with the soul as the fuel. (I guess it wasn't uriel, my bad, like I said, haven't even cracked a butcher book in almost a year.) I notice without one Butters soul starts to fade too. When harry uses all his magic his physical energy suffers, when Harry uses up a bit of his soul Bob tells harry to go generate more by living... hell that's more of a connection than i'd thought of before. to generate more soul you live life, magic IS a distillation of life... I think that's better than I had before. shows a direct association between living and having soul, the connection between magic and life is of course spelled out everywhere.
In other words, he's given you Power. But the same statement could refer to Knowledge or any other sort. Nothing there says that Magic and Soul are the same thing, or even really comes close. It just says that Harry was given the possibility to Grow.
Now, if you want to argue that The Angels did all that initial Creation via Soulfire, and since Soulfire is based on Soul ALL REALITY is really just Soul, including all Matter and Every Energy...Well I cannot refute that, but it's a little like saying lead and gold are the same this because they are both made of protons...not false, but not true enough to be applied that way in any practical sense (short of star trek replicators I guess)
So... Cowl's identity, then?Yea... sorry, didn't mean to jack your thread there. Still, I find discussions flow more smoothly if you don't try to transfer them half way through. Unless it's more than two trying to discuss a separate topic vs random tangent played to it's end between two peeps.
Honestly, I think that if Cowl isn't a future Dresden, then he must be an unknown-yet-important person. Aside from McCoy, I can't think of anyone else that's really putting off a "more than they seem" vibe... but then again, I always believed that Maeve was exactly what she seemed, and that all fell apart.Hmm, so instead of "Who is giving off the Secrets Vibe" perhaps the question should be "Who technically works but is the last person you'd expect?"
Edit: OK, not true - Andi also is putting off a "more than they seem" vibe. But in Andi's case, it's more of an "I'm partially paralyzed" or "I suffered brain damage" vibe than an "I'm a secret dark lord" vibe.from what I recall, even more suspicion was falling on the conveniently returned Alpha (Marci?).
OK, so sorry for the double-post, but I was thinking of some of the other popular choices. I'm not sure if I believe that Gregori Cristos has it within himself to be Cowl. Despite my feelings on Ebenezer, I do agree with his assessment of Cristos - he just seems too stupid to really be Cowl, who was by far one of the most intelligent foes Dresden has faced. I feel that if Cowl was revealed to be Cristos, then it would kind of be an anticlimax - "Oh, it was always you? What was I even worried about?"Im in the Justin Is Dead Camp, but by his own admission Harry's memories of that day are pretty fuzzy. The Wardens seems confident he was dead, enough to Charge Harry, but I dont think they ever really described the physical evidence.
DuMorne would be interesting, but didn't Harry see Justin's corpse? Or am I misremembering something? Then again, Aleron LaFortier is listed and has a vote, and I think that's about as likely as Mister being Cowl... who... also has a vote.
Hail Mister!
I have felt that Justin was pretty week and not so intelligent to get his butt handed to him by a teenaged apprentice. Cowl has to be senior council level and not warden level. Someone with vast experience to amass knowledge and power and a laser focus on long term plans.To be fair, if he's Cowl then he didnt actually loose since he survived and thrived, and evidence is that at best he got his butt handed to him by a Walker that was using a Teenager as a catspaw. With a side of sidhe magic feather I suppose.
Okay, I just wanna say I finished reading Proven Guilty just a while ago and I have a real quick question before the serious interview: "Justin's behind everything, isn't he?"Ok, some people are n***s and beliebe that because Jim repeated it so often it absolutely has to mean that Justin is alive. ;)
Justin's dead...look, look...he's dead, he's dead.
Dead, dead?
Jim: He's dead!
Very dead?
Jim: D-E-D dead.
Are you ever gonna change your answer, dead?
Jim: Dead.
Time to quote that WoJ again:
Ok, some people are n***s and beliebe that because Jim repeated it so often it absolutely has to mean that Justin is alive. ;)
But I don't think that's Jim's style. If he wanted to leave some wiggle room, he'd have come up with an elaborate answer that did leave said wiggle room.
...Come again? What is that n-word you asterisked out, because I hope like hell it isn't the only n-word that's coming to my mind.My hope was "nerds". Or "nuts", with an extra asterisk.
...Come again? What is that n-word you asterisked out, because I hope like hell it isn't the only n-word that's coming to my mind.nuts, really, it was just nuts.
Back on topic: I noticed that there's no option for Cowl and Peabody actually being one and the same person. Is there something making this impossible or would it just be too anti-climactic?We havent actually seen cowl since before TC. Also the fact that there was somebody else with Peabody on DR, which has mostly the same pool of suspects as for Cowl's identity.
Back on topic: I noticed that there's no option for Cowl and Peabody actually being one and the same person. Is there something making this impossible or would it just be too anti-climactic?Peabody is listed right under LaFortier.
Peabody is listed right under LaFortier.Thanx, I really do seem to need new glasses. :)
OK, so I was giving this idea some more thought, and I remembered that it was Cowl who had tainted the Leanansidthe with Morgana's Athame. Are we assuming, therefore, that Cowl and Kumore are also tainted with Nemesis? I mean, I can't honestly think of a reason why anyone would knowingly spread Nemesis without either already being tainted or being an Outsider themselves.Likely, though Im not discounting willing participation for personal ends. Though I expect any Power transfer would include some Nemfection whether the mortal knew it or not.
Has there been any detailed discussion and theory on the exact mechanics of the contagion? That strongly influences this discussion.We can't even agree on whether or not mortals can be infected. Lily said they can, but others argue that she's ignorant, and only parroting things that Maeve lied about.
That's weird. I don't remember anything in any of the books to suggest that mortals are immune to Nemesis, and many passages other than Lily's in Cold Days that indirectly insinuate that the possibility exists. I mean, Rashid has a working knowledge of what Nemesis is and how it spreads, and when he accuses Harry of acting against his nature and with far more power than should be available to him in Turn Coat, it very much has the appearance that he suspects Dresden to be infected. Can you direct me to the thread in which a mortal's nemesis susceptibility is discussed? It's not listed in the theories index.To my knowledge there is nothing that actually indicates humans are immune, the theory rests on the fact that all confirmed Nemfected so far have been Fae.
... and not for the first time, I wish that I had joined this community five years ago and knew this stuff already.
And sheer stubbornness. But I'm not one to criticize that.That's weird. I don't remember anything in any of the books to suggest that mortals are immune to Nemesis, and many passages other than Lily's in Cold Days that indirectly insinuate that the possibility exists. I mean, Rashid has a working knowledge of what Nemesis is and how it spreads, and when he accuses Harry of acting against his nature and with far more power than should be available to him in Turn Coat, it very much has the appearance that he suspects Dresden to be infected. Can you direct me to the thread in which a mortal's nemesis susceptibility is discussed? It's not listed in the theories index.To my knowledge there is nothing that actually indicates humans are immune, the theory rests on the fact that all confirmed Nemfected so far have been Fae.
... and not for the first time, I wish that I had joined this community five years ago and knew this stuff already.
To my knowledge there is nothing that actually indicates humans are immune, the theory rests on the fact that all confirmed Nemfected so far have been Fae.No, please. Not again. ;)
And sheer stubbornness. But I'm not one to criticize that.
As for a particular thread on the argument, I'd say search for any thread involving Nemfection. If you can't find one, just start one asking for people's evidence one way or another, and you'll get both.
No, please. Not again. ;)Until we have an answer, the topic will be picked again and again. Like a scab. Or a chronic pustule. Or an abscess filled with purulent fluid that reeks of bacterial infection and curdled milk, the stench of which clings to both your taste buds and olfactory receptors alike, as it explodes wetly, squelching like an irritable bowel locked in ebullient convulsions as it expels it's noxious emissions.
Until we have an answer, the topic will be picked again and again. Like a scab. Or a chronic pustule. Or an abscess filled with purulent fluid that reeks of bacterial infection and curdled milk, the stench of which clings to both your taste buds and olfactory receptors alike, as it explodes wetly, squelching like an irritable bowel locked in ebullient convulsions as it expels it's noxious emissions...... pass the brain bleach please...
Griffyn might have been inspired by the latest Game of Thrones episodes there. ;D*stuffs fingers in ears* LALALALALALALALALALA, I can't hear you! (no can watch ;( )
To my knowledge there is nothing that actually indicates humans are immune, the theory rests on the fact that all confirmed Nemfected so far have been Fae.
Excellent recap!
I want to toss out a related topic: Winter was represented at the GP Ball via Lea, and she in turn was gifted a vector for Nemfection. Summer was not visibly represented, which seems out of character, politically speaking. Coincidentally, per SK that same time is when Aurora relocated her court to Chicago, forcing Maeve to follow suit. And Aurora is the earliest confirmed Nemfection....
Also: You were correct, Cowl and (presumed) Kumori handed Bianca the cask of gold and jewels (confirmed in WOJ) that she gave to Ferro
One of the hooded figures behind her stepped forward, holding a small cask, about as big as a breadbox. The figure opened it, and the lights gleamed on something that sparkled and shone. (GP, ch 29)
Thanks for confirming the Ferrovax gift. And ooooooo, you make an excellent point about Summer. So did the Red Court effectively snub them, or were they represented by parties unseen (possibly Aurora)?Im guessing the later, that they sent a tainted Gift but for whatever reason Summer declined to attend in person, I assume there were polite ways to decline, Harry simply never bothered.
If it's not Harry, then who else do we have? We have Elaine, who has some actual merit, but does not handle power in the same way that Cowl does. Maybe Elaine could be Kumori, but honestly, she was hiding in Summer until book 4; it's doubtful that she went for a jaunt to a vampire ball just a year earlier...Yeah, came here to drop this point, found it en passant if his main point.
Cowl's he might have known[knows] that Justin had the skull [because reasons]. If he couldn't find it in the aftermath only one person could have had it.
I voted for Justin. I don't think its Simon because of the following WOJ.
Q: What death curses are able to do? How powerful can they be? Why don’t more wizards just use die as their curse? Its short and kills your killer.
A: They sometimes do. :) See what happened to all the vampires around Simon when they assaulted his compound immediately prior to the onstage events in Summer Knight.
The answer continues and talks about Harry's Mom's death curse.
https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-magic-in-the-dresden-files-part-2/
Peabody was shot by Morgan.Sorry, I haven't gotten my hands on the latest short in the Animal Rescue book so the last time I had seen Cowl was I believe White Night which is before Peabody got shot...