Like with Superior Pyromancy would you get any bonus to attacks made with fire?
Also could someone post the power Hellfire, cause I lost my copy of the books somewhere and can't find em.
Eh, it's pretty broad. But it's still just Ritual with the speed and methods of Evocation. Given how narrow the normal Evocation of this power is, I don't expect it to be a problem.
But who knows, maybe it could use a little narrowing. Any suggestions?
PS: Adding these to the list now. They're still editable, so don't take this as a declaration that they're done.
I don't think this is very good, unfortunately.
For a few reasons.
Firstly, I don't think LtW uses Transformation magic. I think he's a biomancer.
Second, the extra benefit is super clunky and questionably balanced.
Thirdly, the additional difficulty stuff is totally pointless.
Fourthly, I see no reason to require people use water magic for this.
I'm honestly not sure how (or if) this can be salvaged. The second problem looks really hard to overcome.
Perhaps a different Extra benefit altogether would be best...
I think so. What we have here is just permission to use the temporary powers rules.The more I re-read Transformation, The more I think you're right. Here's What I came up with...
I honestly don't know what would be best for Superior Transformation.
My first instinct is usually to make Superior magics remove irritating little foibles in the kind of thaumaturgy that they enhance. Like Superior Warding removes the need for thresholds while Superior Conjuration removes the fake-looking-ness of conjured objects.
No idea how to use that approach with Transformation And Disruption.
On a related note, I've been wanting to write Superior Crafting to represent Luccio's Sword-making skills. It'd let you make items with multiple effects, and it'd let you give other people items that they could sustain with their own slots. But I can't think of a fair way to write the latter effect.
You seem like the person to ask here...so how would you go about that?
PS: I'd also be interested in hearing any ideas that you have for Superior Biomancy.
On a related note, I've been wanting to write Superior Crafting to represent Luccio's Sword-making skills. It'd let you make items with multiple effects, and it'd let you give other people items that they could sustain with their own slots. But I can't think of a fair way to write the latter effect.
You seem like the person to ask here...so how would you go about that?
I really like Superior Biomancy. But I think I'll add a second option to the Extra Benefit, namely using Lore for medical care, because otherwise people with True Shapeshifting will get less mileage out of this.Yes, I made effect 1 because the rules only have 2 options: Only the creator can use the item, or the item can be used by anyone for the cost of 1 strength.
Not so sure about Superior Crafting. I think you're onto something, though unfortunately this can't properly model a Warden sword.
As I see it, Superior Crafting has three effects.
1. No cost to make items for specific other people. My reading of the rules allows this normally, but it is a bit ambiguous.
2. Can compress multiple Enchanted Items into one, letting them share uses. I like this a lot, but we might have to impose some kind of limit on it.
3. Can lend out items at almost full power, paying a small tax to do so. I'm a bit nervous about this one.
Yes, I made effect 1 because the rules only have 2 options: Only the creator can use the item, or the item can be used by anyone for the cost of 1 strength.
Here's an example of Effect 2 : Instead of an item that has 2 separate effects , such as veiling its user(1 use per session, 1 slot) and causing a smoky cloud (Block vs Perception, 3 uses, 2 slots, the second slot was used to increase the uses per session), A Superior Crafter can compress those 2 effects, so that they have a 4 use pool for both of them.
To extend this example to Effect 3, Say the Crafter has Lore 5. The Veil or the Cloud would have a strength of 5. But in order for a Lore 3 user to maintain the item, the Crafter can reduce the number of uses per session to 2.
In regards to the Warden Swords, My power would allow for both the effects to be compressed into a 6 use pool, reduced by 3 uses to allow for most Wardens to be able to maintain the item. Lore 3 sounds like a good level for a Warden to be trained to before they are trusted with a Sword...
Superior Crafting looks good...
--though I might add a stipulation that the intended recipient of the crafted item participate in some way to the ritual creating it. Maybe they add power to it via taking an Extreme Consequence, changing one of their permanent aspects to reflect their ability to wield the item? In the case of the Warden Swords, maybe it had been part of the "graduation" from apprentice to Warden.
Another Sponsored Magic for y'all.
Opinions wanted.
DRACULA MAGIC [-4]
Description: Dracula has a magic of his own. It's not clear exactly why; perhaps he's simply too powerful not to have his own brand of magic.
Sponsor: Dracula is the source of this magic.
Agenda: It's not entirely clear what Dracula wants.
Evocation: Dracula's Evocations generally work by manipulating blood, the weather, or people's minds. But the occasional necromantic blast is not unheard of.
Thaumaturgy: Dracula's rituals are generally associated with his curse, the weather, psychomancy, entropomancy, and necromancy.
Evothaum: Any ritual that could be cast with Dracula Magic may be cast with the speed and methods of Evocation.
Extra Benefits: Dracula Magic Evocations may be used to inflict mental stress. This costs five shifts; a weapon 2 mental attack is as difficult to cast as a weapon 7 physical attack. And so on.
Edit- I was considering removing the Demesne part of Oneiromancy and adding a Kemmlerian esque- "you may use your Psychomancy control bonus as long as it involves the evocation elements or dreams" and an automatic Specialization. Balanced?
Eh. It gets a lot more broken as a Zone aspect that you can tag every time you enter a new one.
You can multimaneuver with Thaumaturgy, no doubt. But I don't see any particular reason to assume you can do so with Evocation.
As for zone grapples, they're doubly iffy. The zone block rules talk about covering multiple allies, not multiple characters. And since grapples are a special kind of block it's arguable whether Evocation can create them. (I know Orbius exists, but it ignores the rules anyway.)I would say as long as a zone maneuver was done in advance (as this is what you need to do to trigger a normal grapple), I don't see why you couldn't. Also you can cover multiple characters with blocks. I don't know why you are saying you can only cover allies...maybe I just don't understand the wording
Indeed, evothaum multi-maneuvers are fine. Though they get a bit weird when they're offensive...if I cast a 12-shift multi-maneuver at you and you defend at 11, how many Aspects do I apply?.I would say in that case, you roll individually against each aspect--if those 12 shifts are for four maneuvers, you roll four times to avoid them, just like if you're being attacked multiple times in a round.
I would say in that case, you roll individually against each aspect--if those 12 shifts are for four maneuvers, you roll four times to avoid them, just like if you're being attacked multiple times in a round.If that were the case then wouldnt it make more sense to use the multi attack variant and have the shifts split up between the maneuvers. So in that case it could be 4, 4 shift maneuver attacks. Though you could split it up differently.
Sponsored Magic gives little extra bonuses as a matter of course. Not sure why it should matter if those bonuses are similar (or identical) to an existing Power or Stunt.
And the evothaum is as broad as a single Ritual specialization, which is standard.
Sponsored Magic gives little extra bonuses as a matter of course. Not sure why it should matter if those bonuses are similar (or identical) to an existing Power or Stunt.
And the evothaum is as broad as a single Ritual specialization, which is standard.
The powers granted are not usually as powerful as a full -1 Refresh Power or Stunt, and more importantly IMO, thematically, are enhancements of the magic, not thematically related but non-magical or always on effects. I suppose the Riposte version wouldn't fall under the second problem, though it does under the first, but Cloak of Shadows definitely does.
My problem is more with the agenda. Shadows don't exist without light so they'd be stupid to want the sun snuffed out. D&D had the Shadowrealm consisting of twisted reflections, darker though not necessarily evil. Finding something that works with that and the mirror like aspects of Tenebromancy could be cool.
Although this power does involve manipulating darkness as well, so maybe I needn't say anything.
As to the evocation riposte benefit, that's really cool.
I think the Riposte effect is enough of an extra benefit on its own, personally.
Cold and darkness are defined as absences of energy That's what I meant by "strip the world of energy and life".
Spacious? -____-Best I could think of
Ok so I wanted to make an opposing sponsor for chronomancy. This is what I have come up with, it needs work.
SPACE MANIPULATION [-4]
Description: This is power granted by Spacious, the God of Space.
Sponsor: Spacious, the God of Space, who grants his scions the ability to move freely throughout space (within reason).
Agenda: Spacious works to keep the universe in working order. He uses scions who have the ability to manipulate space, prevent the universe from collapsing.
Evocation: Space Manipulation evocations work by affecting the space around the user, extending or reducing space between two points.
Thaumaturgy: Space Manipulation rituals manipulate space. Teleportation is their most obvious application, but not their only one.
Evothaum: All rituals that may be cast with Space Manipulation may be cast with Evocation's speed and methods.
Extra Benefits: not sure what to put here.
I intend for the two powers be at odds in same way winner and summer are
Wow. Sorry for my absence. I was gone for a while, there. Yeah, i'll keep doing them. I was thinking of doing the Tenebromancer next, but do you have a suggestion?
TIME MANIPULATION [-4]
Description: This is power granted by Kronos, the God of Time.
Sponsor: Kronos, the God of Time, who grants his scions the ability to move freely throughout time (within reason).
Agenda: Kronos works to keep the timestream in working order. He uses scions who have the ability to travel along the timestream to prevent temporal anomalies from occurring.
Evocation: Time Manipulation evocations work by slowing down and speeding up the flow of time. This provides the normal set of Evocation effects, but with some funky desciptions; attacks might work by causing time to flow unevenly across the target's body while blocks might work by creating narrow slices of space where time barely moves.
Thaumaturgy: Time Manipulation rituals manipulate time. Straightforward time travel is their most obvious application, but not their only one.
Evothaum: All rituals that may be cast with Time Manipulation may be cast with Evocation's speed and methods.
Extra Benefits: Characters with Time Manipulation have a Lore-based Supernatural Sense for temporal anomalies. It can be used to detect disruptions to the timestream and to determine whether an action will cause such a disruption to occur. Some scions of Kronos use this ability to collect souvenirs from the past without changing history.
SPACE MANIPULATION [-4]
Description: This is power granted by Spacious, the God of Space.
Sponsor: Spacious, the God of Space, who grants his scions the ability to move freely throughout space (within reason).
Agenda: Spacious works to keep the universe in working order. He uses scions who have the ability to manipulate space, prevent the universe from collapsing.
Evocation: Space Manipulation evocations work by affecting the space around the user, extending or reducing space between two points.
Thaumaturgy: Space Manipulation rituals manipulate space. Teleportation is their most obvious application, but not their only one.
Evothaum: All rituals that may be cast with Space Manipulation may be cast with Evocation's speed and methods.
Extra Benefits: Characters with Space Manipulation have a lore based supernatural sense to know the distance/size of any space they can occupy or see (rooms they have been in, buildings, point a to point b ect)
I want them to be of similar power but I dont know if they are as written. Just check it and make sure, edit as needed.
Looks okay.
At first glance, I'd say you might be able to make it a little stronger.
That sounds like a lot of work.Not at the moment, was just a general thought on organization.
But if there's a specific magic you want to look at, I can pull it out for you.
Thaumaturgy: Conquest evocations resemble psychomancy in essentially every way. Which, considering it’s a type of proto-psychomancy, is reasonable. You also gain power over demons, and are able to command the hellspawn as easily as you are able to command men.
Are all these categories of magic things that have been displayed in the Dresden Files series of novels? Or are they just really interesting things people have come up with for their own PCs during a game?
Most of the Sponsored Magics cost -4 Refresh, but there are a couple that cost -5 Refresh. What's the reasoning for that?
Also, how did the concept of the "Extra Benefits" come about? Is that something that's part and parcel with Sponsored Magic? Do Seelie and Unseelie magic have Extra Benefits?
Some have been demonstrated in the novels, but most are pure homebrew.
BRIDE OF HADES [-4] (More in-game lore relevant to our campaign)
Description: Drawing on the power of Hecate as the bride of Hades, you are able to cast spells that fit into her nature as the consort of the death god.
Sponsor: Hades and Hecate
Agenda: Convert mortals to Hades' or Hecate’s worship. Stop the other gods of death. Pursuit and execution of Necromancers and mortals made immortal (Vampires, Denarians, even ghosts, zombies and other undead raised against their will)
Evocation: Evocations that involve this sponsor involve killing things, or causing them to end.
Thaumaturgy: Ectomancy, sending souls to Tartarus or Asphodel, contacting the recent dead.
Evothaum: Ectomancy
Extra Benefits: The positive benefits of Lawbreaker (First) as well as insulation from the effects of continued use.
Well, as a "faith" thing, Holy Touch works really well thematically. But the wearing red thing is what makes the red priests really recognizable.
Okay, i thought that one could use some review. Thoughts on a better extra benefit?
Hm. Split the difference at a bonus for first impressions and holy touch?
and after a reread of Flesh Mask, i'm not incredibly sure about it. Echoes of the Beast, for nocturnal animals?
Seeing as how i'm using this in EtA, i figured i'd post it.
ASTROMANCY [-4]
Description: You wield power over the physical and mythological aspects of the Sun and the Moon. This power is generally wielded by priests, witches, and druids.
Sponsor: This power is often self sponsored, gained by heliomancers and menemancers who learn to blend the two arts. However, gods of Day and Night will often grant this power to their followers. If so, it is sponsored by them. Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi-no-mikoto, Apollo, Selune, Helios, Artemis, Horus, Ra, Quetzalcoatl, Svarog, Nut, Sekhmet, Hecate, and Chang’e are all gods or goddesses whose portfolios include the sun or the moon, and thus are capable of granting this power.
Agenda: The preservation of the balance between Day and Night. Protection of both the Sun and the Moon against creatures who would do harm to either, such as vampires who want the sun to go out, Summerfae who would love daylight everlasting, and so on. If granted by a god, that god’s agenda.
Evocation:You can manipulate aspects of the sun and the moon. From the moon, you gain power over darkness, cold, gravity, earth, oceans, blood, time, trickery, and madness. From the sun, you gain power over light, fire, electromagnetism, nuclear forces, radiation, space, growth, battle, and plants.
Thaumaturgy: Rituals cast with Astromancy make use of the same themes as Evocation cast with it, but their applications lean towards the abilities of deities of the day, the night, and the sun and the moon.
Evothaum: Any ritual that can be cast with Astromancy can be cast with evocation’s speed and methods.
Extra Benefits: The power granted by the sun and the moon changes depending on which one of those is in the sky at the moment. During the day, you gain the Sight. During the night, you gain Cloak of Shadows.
The extremely broad evocation elements are where people might take issue, but that's honestly a flavor thing. Trapping someone in a recursive space loop (Block vs Conviction/Alertness/Lore) isn't much different than imposing your will on someone's motor centers via Spirit evocation (Block vs Conviction/Discipline/Might). They're also fairly accurate representations of the portfolios of the gods mentioned above.
PUNY NARPHOENIX. FUHRER KING HICK HAS CONTRIBUTED A DOZEN.
(note to self: Fullmetal Alchemy sponsored magic?)
WHITE LIGHTER MAGIC [-4]
Description: This is the magic of White Lighters, ranked among the guardians of White Magic. It is almost always used to defend and protect innocents from the perturbations of the forces of evil and darkness. White Lighters are able to orb (teleport) to any location on Earth or other realms, taking passengers with them. They can also heal those who have been injured, but their power cannot bring the dead back to life.
Sponsor: The Elders.
Agenda: Guide, advise, and protect witches and others who potentially have a great destiny. A White Lighter's charges are assigned to them by the Elders. White Lighters must also work to keep magic a secret from the uninitiated and cannot act in mortal affairs if such action might expose the existence of magic to the world.
Evocation: White Lighter Evocations create blocks and maneuvers in order to protect and defend their charges. Evocations are rarely ever used to attack, but when they do, the magical attack appears to be a searing bolt of lightning.
Thaumaturgy: White Lighter rituals include minor Divination and healing rituals.
Evothaum: White Lighters can perform their Divination and healing with Evocation's methods and speed.
Extra Benefits: Once per target, per scene, a White Lighter may remove Physical Stress and Consequences provided injuries were sustained via "unnatural" means. A man shot by a mugger could not be healed, but a man shot by a mugger who was under the influence of a demon could be healed. Physical Stress and Consequences healed in this manner at transferred to the White Lighter in the form of Mental Stress or Consequences. White Lighters are extremely empathic souls and witnessing the pain and violence wrought by mortals can be taxing and traumatizing for them.
Thanks for the feedback. I wished more people used all these magics I write. :'(
Whereas all the magics I wrote up are in use right now! :PYOU ARE A BUTT
YOU ARE A BUTT
FILLED WITH OTHER, SMALLER BUTTS
Which work? If you're doing the Seven from the Kingkiller Chronicle, I did a Sponsored Magic for them.
I mean, if you want to kill people, fine. Go wild. But i've never seen a situation on this board or in an IRL game where the Second, Sixth, and Third Laws came up.
Thanks for the feedback. I wished more people used all these magics I write. :'(
SUPERIOR ECTOMANCY [-2]
Description: A master wizard can refine her skills in a particular area so fully that her abilities are qualitatively different from those of a normal mage. While normal specialization simply makes one faster and stronger and more effective, this level of focus provides entirely new capabilities. A wizard with this level of power over ghosts attracts ghosts to herself and can use them to affect the living with all due haste
Sponsor: This Magic is Self Sponsored
Agenda: As this magic is self sponsored, it lacks an agenda
Evocation: This magic does not provide Evocation
Thaumaturgy: This power does not provide Thaumaturgy
Evothaum: All Ectomancy may be cast with the speed and methods of Evocation.
Extra Benefits: Immediately gain the benefits of the Ghost Speaker. However, the power of the wizard who has taken this makes it more extreme. Ghosts notice you at +4 instead of +2, but you may use Contacts at +2 when dealing with the dead.
I like the idea of the extra benefit, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to use an increased bonus to contacting you as a drawback. I mean, what's wrong with being contacted?
I guess. But even so, it seems really narrow.
It's been too long.
THE POWER OF ROCK [-4]
Description:You wield the power of rock and roll.
Sponsor:Ormagöden, the Fire Beast, the Lord of the Chord, and the God of Metal.
Agenda:Kick ass. Rock out. Be awesome while doing it. Either resist attempts to destroy The Metal, or destroy rival musical avatars.
Evocation:In place of earth, wind, and water, the Metal uses even cooler versions- Metal, Noise, Blood. Fire too, because it was the only one cool enough to stay.
Thaumaturgy:Metal rituals involve conjuring forth massive stages, summoning beasts of metal, melting faces, inspiring the crowds, and looking awesome.
Evothaum: You can perform any rituals using the Power of Rock at Evocation’s speed and methods.
Extra Benefits:You can use Performance in place of Discipline for all magical purposes. In addition, you gain a magical guitar that carries 4 free focus slots that can only be spent on improving the evocations or rituals of the Power of Rock.
I like the Contacts +2 to contact ghosts, though. It makes it different than Ghost Speaker + Mastery of Ectomancy. Any other suggestions for drawbacks?
Yeah.
For an extra benefit, how about perception of quantity? You can instantly calculate, day, how many beans are in a jar, the distance between two points, the number of hairs on someone's head, how much something weighs, etcetera.
But in my experience counterspells hardly ever get used. I'd be inclined to move some other piece of Lore over to Scholarship instead.
I posted this on the "Outsider Stats" thread on the GS/CD spoiler board, but here's my version --
Outsider Magic
Description: Drawing upon the power of the Outside (or a powerful Outsider patron), you're able to cast spells that destroy, distort, ruin, or harm aspects of reality (time, space, energy or matter) and induce fear, despair, and horror.
Cost: 4 refresh, 3 if you have Evocation or Thaumaturgy, 2 if you have both. You also need to either be an Outsider, or have an Outsider patron.
Benefits: Standard sponsored magic benefits.
Evocation - Outsider magic may be used as an element for evocation; when used this way, it produces effects similar to the entropy aspect of water evocation, and can also produce veils (as per spirit evocation). Outsider evocation effects are always obviously and profoundly weird, warping and twisting aspects of reality.
Thaumaturgy - Outsider magic can produce the effects of entropomancy, as well as psychomancy and transportation/worldwalking effects appropriate to the themes of this magic (psychomancy cannot produce beneficial or calming effects, transportation creates teleport effects, etc). It also may produce limited chronomantic effects.
Evothaum - Outsider magic can produce Outsider-appropriate psychomancy effects with evocation's methods and speed.
Other Benefits - Outsider magic provides a +1 power bonus on evocations (not evothaum) which directly cause destruction or harm.
At Sanctaphrax...Are you planning a Captain N game?
I had an idea and i wondered how you would stat it out since your boss at it
A sponsor magic that is tied to three separate IOPs The powerglove , Code Book , and my favorite the light gun
as you can guess i need an epic Retro Video game sponsor magic letting you draw the powers of all video games of the
time
that is a good balanced one i think i may go with that, how would it look written up?
It will also fit with Gards description of being "out for three weeks" after scribing a specific rune - a good chunk of backlash to avoid it going nuclear in her hands, probably ;)In that case, though, I doubt they are consumables, it's just too impractical and neither Gard nor Odin would ever use it that way.
It will also fit with Gards description of being "out for three weeks" after scribing a specific rune - a good chunk of backlash to avoid it going nuclear in her hands, probably ;)Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of when I helped design the power.
That one was specifically a one-use thing. She mentions being knocked out after making it in the context of what it would require to get more of them. Pretty much every rune-based thing we've seen Gard use seems to be one-off, except her defensive enchantments on her ax. Those are like Harry's rings - one use each in flavour, but mechanically several uses.I get that, but I find it hard to accept that an experienced fighter like Gard would rely that much on consumables. Maybe I'll make a character in a game to test it in real conditions and see it with my own eyes.
I get that, but I find it hard to accept that an experienced fighter like Gard would rely that much on consumables. Maybe I'll make a character in a game to test it in real conditions and see it with my own eyes.You rely on consumables when those consumables are more powerful than you can get in a renewable source.
Trickster's Gift looks good. I'm a gigantic Neil Gaiman fan. I wrote a writeup of the Mad Hatter that was basically Dream of the Endless.I'd like to see it. I've been meaning to read The Sandman for quite some time.
BLACKSTAFF MAGIC [-4]Personally, I'm not too fond of powers/stunts that require you to spend FP. Does the bonus lasts for the whole of the scene? If not, you can do the same with a scene aspect. Since it's already based on necromancy, you could go all the way and just give a refinement on lawbreaking. Or raise the bonus at +4 and make it once per scene, that would make it substancially different than normal.
DESCRIPTION:You wield the power of a Blackstaff, a name for both the a power magical foci of Lawbreaking magic, and the wizards who wield it's power.
SPONSOR:The Blackstaff itself.
AGENDA:To break the Laws of Magic- namely to kill, to transform, to invade the thoughts of others, to enthrall, to use necromancy, to swim against the flow of time, and to look Outside the Outer Gates.
EVOCATION:Any evocation that breaks one of the Seven Laws.
THAUMATURGY:Any ritual that breaks one of the Seven Laws.
EVOTHAUM:Any ritual that breaks one of the Laws can be used at evocation's speed and methods.
EXTRA BENEFITS:Possessing this power makes you immune to the negative effects of Lawbreaking, and thus you never have to take the Lawbreaker stunt. You can replace your control bonus for evocation with your control bonus for any Lawbreaking spell. If you spend a Fate Point, you can choose one Law and gain a +2 bonus to complexity/power and control for any spell that involves the breaking of that Law for one scene.
Right, but the actual Laws encompass more than one area of magic. Giving a Refinement to Necromancy is fine, Giving a Refinement to Necromancy, Transformation, Psychomancy, Chronomancy, and Outsider Magic is broken.True, but by RAW it's legal. It means that you won't be able to use the bonus for beneficial magic, however you will be one (legal) terror in battle.
You can replace your control bonus for evocation with your control bonus for any Lawbreaking spell.
There's a (or many) blackstaff Iop's on this board ... somewhere.Since the search function failed to deliver, could you provide some examples please?
Since the search function failed to deliver, could you provide some examples please?The search is tricky...there may be more...
-The very strong implication the Blackstaff is Mother Winter's walking stick, and Mother Winter's association with death, destruction, entropy
-Jim's suggesting that the Blackstaff is specifically for killing, perhaps more so than other Law-breaking (the WoJ about 'does the Blackstaff have any powers related to the dead', the response was 'other than making people dead? that's kind of the point')
-The Physical Stress bit is based on the 'tendrils' feeding on Eb after he did the big killing spell in Changes
Here's something I created for Belial666's game. Would appreciate a critique on this, if anyone's willing to give it. Also, inspiration was taken from several other homebrew powers I've seen around here.reviously agreed upon with his Hunger.[-5] Hunger Magic(Sponsored Magic)This is the power that a White Court Vampire's Hunger allows him to access. It will subsume what talent the vampire might have had entirely into it's own essence.
Themes: Minds, Emotions, Life, Control. Hunger Magic deals with all these, and related spheres of influence, as befits its nature.
The Hunger Feeds On All: Reduce any Toughness power a target has by one step.
Power From A Demonic Pact: When casting a spell that is not a rote, the vampire takes a -1 penalty to control, power, and complexity, due to using his power in ways not previously agreed upon with his Hunger.
See below.
Seems weak. The extra benefit is strong, but the drawback is painful and it has no evothaum. Plus it costs extra.
Make it better or cheaper, I say.
...I'm not sure exactly how the altered rules are supposed to work.I edited your original comment a bit...
For example: you say you must take a mild consequence for every ritual, but it's not clear whether that consequence counts for complexity or not...so are you try to say that you can't increase complexity through Declarations?
2. I strengthened it because Hellfire's extra benefit is sort of terrible. Should I cost it up to [-5]?
3. Soulfire is unquestionably the most powerful sponsored magic, but what about it seemed too powerful?
For me, taking Hellfire meant I had to reallocate all my foci for a situation that I wasn't always spellcasting for (hurting people).
Tell me if I'm wrong here: Tessa throws a Hellfire-lightning bolt at Weapon:11. Her control roll is only +8. She takes three shifts of fallout, but the spell is still Weapon:11?
Come to think of it, that might be a good idea for Hellfire's extra benefit - when taking fallout, you can still keep your spell's full power as if you were taking backlash. In fact I think I saw a warlock build once that had this ability.
Another idea: Hellfire could let you take fallout without reducing the power of your spell. That'd make it optimal for the user to focus on power over control, and for them to inflict ridiculous amounts of damage to their surroundings when fighting. Might be abusable if unlimited, though.
Oops, didn't see that. :-[
Tbh it's still not optimal to focus on power over control though, as control is more important than power when it comes to attacking. And fallout can work against you. And end of the day it doesn't actually give a bonus to anything. If it were up to me I'll add it as another benefit over and beyond the base benefit, as its value is mostly flavour, but well.
For me, taking Hellfire meant I had to reallocate all my foci for a situation that I wasn't always spellcasting for (hurting people).
Tell me if I'm wrong here: Tessa throws a Hellfire-lightning bolt at Weapon:11. Her control roll is only +8. She takes three shifts of fallout, but the spell is still Weapon:11?
And end of the day it doesn't actually give a bonus to anything.
Discussing it with my players, one of them suggested making that function an invoke on Hellfire's destructive aspect.
Any spell involving destruction or sin...
It actually gives a substantial bonus even if you don't change your Refinements around for it. I mean, let's say your base spellcasting is +7 control, Weapon:7 in the element of your choice. But let's say you have an enemy you want to nuke horribly, who's easy to hit but hard to hurt (like someone with big size powers). So, you take a moderate and two mild consequences and cross out your fourth bubble of mental stress. Now you're still throwing off of +7 (maybe +9 because you probably are willing to spend a FP/take a Sponsor Debt to kill this guy), but your attack is Weapon:/18/. If you can make fallout without losing /any/ power, you're keeping it at Weapon:18 without taking Severe/Extreme Consequences to stay in the game like you would with Backlash.
Sure it does. It gives a bonus to the power of every spell with a blown control roll, except for the ones where you choose to take backlash.Like I said above, scenarios like that didn't occur to me, since it's optimal to have more control than power anyway, but I can see how it might be useful.
You know, there's no rule saying your power and control have to be equal.I'm aware. It just makes things a little easier for me, math-wise, and makes the spellcasting a little more versatile. I'd obviously prefer to have control be four more than power in every case, but doing that without a ton of Refinements generally means that you're only good at attacking.
I think you should clarify whether the shifts are auto-controlled.
And I still think the debt-based fallout-control is kinda useless, given that even if you fail a control roll by 4 you'll still get a better attack by invoking for a standard +2.
It doesn't accomplish that point, then. It'll almost never be worth using, and when it is it usually won't be on an attack.Could you clarify, please? I'm not entirely sure about it myself and will probably remove it if nobody provides me with a compelling reason to keep it. The bonus to destruction is plenty, IMO.
Could you clarify, please? I'm not entirely sure about it myself and will probably remove it if nobody provides me with a compelling reason to keep it. The bonus to destruction is plenty, IMO.
At first I figured it would be awesome but as Sancta said, as long as the control deficit is 4 or less, you get an equal or better net result on attacks with an invoke (Invoke for +2 to the control roll would give both +2 damage from the to-hit roll and +2 Weapon rating for a net +4 stress done). Maneuvers might gain more from it, as there's no gain from excess control there...
It doesn't accomplish that point, then. It'll almost never be worth using, and when it is it usually won't be on an attack.There are times when higher power at this cost can be useful.
How about changing the benefit like this;
Uncontrolled Power: Hellfire can offer power at the cost of control. When wielding Hellfire for any magic, taking fallout functions as if you had taken backlash, not reducing your spells' power but still damaging the environment. In addition, if you're casting a spell that deals stress or is otherwise destructive, you may get up to +2 bonus in power; if that bonus would exceed your control you must cast with fallout, not backlash.
There are times when higher power at this cost can be useful.
Generally speaking, an attack roll of 5 or 6 is going to be enough to land a hit on most things; so with this effect, once your effective Discipline is up that high, you could pour all the rest of your resources, refinements, foci, whatever, into boosting power.
Say you've got someone with Discipline and Conviction both at 5. This version is going to make all attack spells 7 easily; two slots in offensive power will push that up to 9, which means that someone can cast a Weapon:12 spell before taking a consequence for it. Weapon:14 at a mild, which they've got two of if they've got Conviction at 5.
Sounds useful to me.
An attack roll of 5 or 6 will hit most things as long as it's not too important, but once you pump up the weapon rating FP come out and things become less certain.It'd work wonders on crowds of goons, though, as zone attacks.
More importantly...take your hypothetical spellcaster and replace their power bonuses with control bonuses. They now do just as much damage, hit more often, and don't need to burn Sponsor Debt to avoid losing power. Taking power is only better if you're not focusing on attacks.Thematically speaking, that goes against Hellfire and how it's typically used. Hellfire isn't for precision and lots of control -- it's about power and damage. The kind of character who's going to go the Hellfire route instead of other available ones is the kind of character who's going to err toward power.
It'd work wonders on crowds of goons, though, as zone attacks.
Thematically speaking, that goes against Hellfire and how it's typically used. Hellfire isn't for precision and lots of control -- it's about power and damage
Exactly!Given the way magic is cast in this game, control is always going to be better than power when you're talking about mechanics and attacks.
That's why I want Hellfire to make power over control into a good choice. If someone with Hellfire is better off pumping control over power, or if Hellfire is better at blocks than attacks, then something is wrong.
Now for Tenebromancy. I'm working my way through watching Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, so Pride has a heavy influence on this. God, I want to use this on a character.
Suggestions for a better Extra Benefit would be appreciated.
TENEBROMANCY 2.0 [-4]
Evocation:Rather obviously, shadows and darkness. Besides manifesting corporeal shadows, you also manipulate cold, gravity, obfuscation, deception, and reflections.
I think the Extra Benefit is right in line with Tenebromancy.It's thematically appropriate, yeah, but I generally like Extra Benefits to be esoteric
As for the Evocation elements, where does Gravity come into play? Is that something they did with the inspirational material (Full Metal Alchemist)? How exactly is it justified?
It's thematically appropriate, yeah, but I generally like Extra Benefits to be esoteric
Or more interesting than a straight +2 bonus.
It's partially from One Piece (Yama Yama no Mi or something like that), and from the association of shadows with black holes and things like that.
I don't think it would be out of line for it to provide Cloak of Shadows and maybe lower the toughness of light or fire based baddies.
So just put obsenely high evo and thaum and maybe modular abilities on the side? I was hoping for something more unique.
Greater Dragons would be a liiiiiittle bit beyond the scale of your typical DFRPG characters. For example Kur, the Sumerian earth/underworld dragon, is as long as the Euphrates river in the legends. That's approximately 1750 miles long. Even curled up he would take a space 200+ miles long and nearly 100 miles wide. His stirrings would cause earthquakes and his steps could flatten mountains. :o
How many ranks of Strength, Size and Toughness would that be?
Sponsor: Typically self-sponsored, but is occasionally granted by creator gods or gods of fertility and life.Hmmm, well I generally do not like self-sponsored magic as being tied to the agenda of your sponsors is one of the few drawbacks of Sponsored Magic. However, I think this could definitely work as long as both the player and GM are diciplined in enforcing it.
Agenda: Your own, if self sponsored. If granted by a god or other entity, that entity's agenda. Typically, the influence of Deus Vitae will drive you to use your powers in some way linked to your worldview- one user might be constantly tempted to make everyone around her happy, while another, disgusted by his own appearance, might be compelled to twist other's features into grotesque, nightmarish things.
Evocation: You can manipulate blood, flesh, bone, and other vital fluids and systems. You can also manipulate psychic energy, allowing you to use Spirit magic, but with more finesse and skill than a spellcaster without this Power.I'd be careful on the creating life part. While I have little knowledge of Dresden lore when compared to others on this board, I am fairly certain that even mending a cut is supposed to be incredibly difficult, so the shifts required to create life from scratch would have to be humungous I would imagine, especially considering this is self-sponsored, no one to cover the knowledge end of things.
Thaumaturgy: You can create and manipulate biological systems and life-forms of nearly any degree of complexity, from an amoeba to an oak tree to a human. You can also manipulate psychic energy and minds, allowing you to use fantastically powerful and precise psychomancy.
Evothaum: You can use any ritual that can be cast with Deus Vitae with Evocation's speed and methods.This may be my personal bias, but I really dislike the "anything you can cast with this sponsored magic can be cast as evothaum" thing. Evothaum is supposed to represent something the sponsored magic is especially good at, so saying that it is especially good at everything just seems like kind of a cop-out to me. Evothaum is a way to further develop the story of your sponsored magic via mechanical means, so I think it should be utilized as much. At the very least I think the chooser should have to pick whether they wish to specialize in the Biomancy or Psycomancy side of things.
Extra Benefits: You may use your complexity and control bonuses from Deus Vitae in place of your power and control bonuses for evocation, so long as the spell incorporates some element of biomancy or psychomancy.This translates into several points of free refresh and I would not allow this on even a -5 Sponsored Magic. The only reason Kemmlerian Necromancy allows this is because it requires both Evocation and Thaumaturgy, so the incredibly strong bonus is balanced by the 8 refresh up-front cost. The user would always be able to include biomancy or psycomancy in the spell effect anyway.
...being tied to the agenda of your sponsors is one of the few drawbacks of Sponsored Magic.
This may be my personal bias, but I really dislike the "anything you can cast with this sponsored magic can be cast as evothaum" thing. Evothaum is supposed to represent something the sponsored magic is especially good at, so saying that it is especially good at everything just seems like kind of a cop-out to me. Evothaum is a way to further develop the story of your sponsored magic via mechanical means, so I think it should be utilized as much. At the very least I think the chooser should have to pick whether they wish to specialize in the Biomancy or Psycomancy side of things.
This translates into several points of free refresh and I would not allow this on even a -5 Sponsored Magic. The only reason Kemmlerian Necromancy allows this is because it requires both Evocation and Thaumaturgy, so the incredibly strong bonus is balanced by the 8 refresh up-front cost. The user would always be able to include biomancy or psycomancy in the spell effect anyway.
Regarding the extra benefit, I forgot to include that you do need at least Thaumaturgy to take this Magic. It's implied in the Description, but I'll make it explicit. It's functionally just one or two stunts. I'm a little confused by your reaction. It's powerful, but only in a fairly limited scope. I can't really think of anything I could do with it that I also couldn't do with, say, Spirit magic.Say Joe takes this sponsored magic and a refinement, and he chooses to use all six slots for specializations. He now effectively gets six free specializations for any Evocation spell he casts, which amounts to three refresh worth of refinements.
I'd intended it to be a one-time choice upon choosing the power.
Maybe I missed something obvious but where did it say that sponsorship gives you item slots? We never saw that in our read, either in the power, the description or the character stat blocks. Did my group grossly overlook something?
If you're paying full price, you get four focus item slots with this ability. If you have either Evocation or Thaumaturgy, thus reducing the cost of Sponsored Magic, you only get two additional focus item slots. If you have both, reducing the cost more, you don't get any additional focus item slots.
GATE OF BABYLON[-5]
Description: You have access to the infinite treasures contained in the vault of Gilgamesh the God-King, allowing you to call forth legendary objects from throughout history.
Sponsor: Gilgamesh.
Agenda: Gilgamesh’s agenda. Rulership. Kingly pride. The collection of more treasures.
Evocation: Gate of Babylon evocations typically involve calling forth a treasure from the vault.
Thaumaturgy: Gate of Babylon rituals typically involve displays of wealth, summoning treasures, kingship, and pride.
Evothaum: You can employ Gate of Babylon rituals that summon treasures with Evocation’s speed and methods.
Extra Benefit: You can use Gate of Babylon rituals to summon Items of Power, mechanically represented as you gaining the IoP for one scene by casting a spell. For every two shifts invested into the spell, the IoP gains 1 more Refresh. These items never provide any Refresh rebate.
I wrote this one while making a Dresdenverse version of Gilgamesh based on his Fate/stay night incarnation, and I think it works fairly well. It covers both his "shoot magic swords at it until it dies" stuff with offensive Evocations, and his "summon some ridiculously overpowered weapon" stuff with Evothaum and the Extra Benefit. The Extra Benefit basically just streamlines the Paranet Papers rules for granting yourself powers with magic.
It does remove the need to take Consequences, yes. It's why it's priced at [-5]. Is it still too unbalancing?
Actually, I have a question about the whole "fake high concept" thing for Power-granting rituals- what if your High Concept already fits the powers you're granting yourself?
I don't see why not.
It does remove the need to take Consequences, yes. It's why it's priced at [-5]. Is it still too unbalancing?
Actually, I have a question about the whole "fake high concept" thing for Power-granting rituals- what if your High Concept already fits the powers you're granting yourself?
The PP temporary power rules already look kind of abusable to me, and I'm not keen to make them stronger. So if I used them I'd probably insist on the maneuver regardless.Do you think raising the number shifts needed to grant a single Refresh could balance it out, or does the nature of shifts make it too easy?
Even for 8 Refresh, I don't think that'd be fair. I'm not even sure it's possible to put a fair price on the ability to acquire a point of Refresh for 2 shifts; how heavily you try to exploit the Power has such a huge effect on its effectiveness that any cost is going to be unfair to someone.
And a lot of the Power's strength depends on how strictly rituals are adjudicated, which varies wildly from table to table.
If you're really attached to the idea of temporary Items of Power, my advice is to make a new Power which lets you spend any amount of Refresh on "permission" to have that amount of temporary Powers. Then you can be granted new Powers with thaumaturgy up to your limit without taking consequences, and be granted new Powers by sponsors up to your limit without taking debt. Give one or two points of that power as the extra benefit of this magic.
SPONSORED MAGIC: TRUE FAITH [-5]
Description: Through a combination of training, practice, talent, and divine inspiration, you are capable of channeling your faith and conviction into achieving some miraculous effects that mimic magic; generally more experienced Champions of God or particularly devout True Believers are who are capable of this.
Sponsor: A Higher Power; one in which you have True Faith in.
Agenda: This varies, but for the traditional Champions of the White God this Agenda (and most of these Sponsor's in general) has to do with fighting agents of darkness/evil, and opposing anything that attempts to affect the free will of, kill, or enslave mortals.
Evocation: You are capable of expressing True Faith with evocation-like effects; these generally appear as white light and/or cleansing fire.
Thaumaturgy: With the power of your faith it is possible perform Thaumaturgy related to combating the enemies to free will. As such it may be possible to divine information related to a Righteous cause, banish/exorcise/bind/erect wards against the Unholy, worldwalk in pursuit of your Calling, and disrupt magic or the links between a mortal and its source of power, etc. Psychomancy in the form of inciting awe in the Unholy is also possible.
Evothaum: All Thaumaturgy granted by True Faith magic can be case with Evocation's methods and speed.
Extra Benefits: All spells cast with True Faith magic automatically meet the criteria for the Catch on anything vulnerable to Holy or True Faith. You gain a +1 to the power/complexity/control of any spell that is defensive/protective in nature, and the toughness of all creatures--whether vulnerable to Holy or not--is downgraded by one rank.
Note: If you also take Soulfire, this power's cost is reduced to -4 only. Like other Sponsored Magics, this one provides 4 Focus Item slots. If you have Evocation or Thaumaturgy, you get a +1 rebate to this power for each of them you have. When appropriate, this ability's +1 bonus to defensive spells may stack with Soulfire's +1 power bonus to Making Things.
Might be a bit much.
+1 defensive control, power, and complexity is probably worth about 2 Refinements, reducing Toughness by a level is probably worth another Refresh, and counting as holy is a nice bonus too. So that's more than 3 Refresh of extra stuff. Granted, it's not the most optimally-spent 3 Refresh, but it still seems rather strong.