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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on June 26, 2021, 07:55:18 PM
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I'm wondering if they have a secret alliance, or if they are enemies. The previous Coin holder seemed to be against Nicodemus, but I don't know if that transferred over to Marcone or not. He did help get Nicodemus a chance at Hades vault. He appeared to be doing it to help Mab (and get his own revenge), but maybe that was a lie. Nicodemus screwed things up after all, Marcone didn't really have any part of him failing. Nic had his shot, and missed...
So I'm wondering if they are technically on the same side, even if they don't like each other, or if they are enemies.
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I can see Nic trying to dominate Marcone, lots of luck with that.. I can also see Marcone trying to run things, lots of luck with that.. Since he is down since Skin Game I can see Nic going for a short term alliance though.
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The Denarians already had factions -- and that was before Nicodemus' disaster heist of Hades' vault.
Nicodemus is basically friendless and on the run. He lost everything but his life and the Grail, which was not his primary goal to begin with.
I can see Thorned Marcone attempting to collect some of the other misfit toys and making his own Denarian faction, but it is equally likely that he'd simply go it alone. Why would he need the others and, let's be honest, while they can be useful they are also extremely untrustworthy. Marcone values loyalty, regardless of whether Namshiel does. Marcone is clearly driving the car (for now).
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To date, Nico destroyed Marcone's building, possibly killed some of his people, kidnapped and tortured and humiliated him, violated his accorded territory and authority, broke into his Accord-licensed bank, and killed at least one employee on that occasion.
To date, Marcone helped manipulate Nico into an action that cost him his daughter and closest ally.
I don't see either of them wanting to team up.
It seems more likely to me that Marcone will not work with any other Denarians because he will not trust them, and he doesn't need them, other than for muscle.
Even if he got coins to give to people, he wouldn't trust the people after they've got their own demon on board. Having the will to defy the demon has got to be rare, and not worth risking.
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Marcone is a bastard, but he's unlikely to team up with someone who not only abducted and tortured him, but who used his abduction as a lever to abduct and torture a little girl.
Not yet at least. We'll have to see exactly how much of the sweet nothings going into his ear Johnny boy listens too.
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To date, Nico destroyed Marcone's building, possibly killed some of his people, kidnapped and tortured and humiliated him, violated his accorded territory and authority, broke into his Accord-licensed bank, and killed at least one employee on that occasion.
To date, Marcone helped manipulate Nico into an action that cost him his daughter and closest ally.
I don't see either of them wanting to team up.
It seems more likely to me that Marcone will not work with any other Denarians because he will not trust them, and he doesn't need them, other than for muscle.
Even if he got coins to give to people, he wouldn't trust the people after they've got their own demon on board. Having the will to defy the demon has got to be rare, and not worth risking.
Well when you put it like that lol. I guess what has me wondering is even though some of the Fallen are in more of a partnership with their host, they would want to drive the host to some sort of direction.. I don't think Thorned wants to be with Marcone just to chill. I'd imagine he wants Marcone to achieve some goal of some kind. I'm wondering if these goals align with what Nic wants or the opposite of what Nic wants.
I know that Harry has a personal grudge with both, and will probably beat both, but dang it now I want to see a fight between Nicodemus and Marcone.
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It depend on how quickly Namshiel succeeds in eroding Marcone’s character and view of reality. Tessa did not turn on Nicodemus after he killed their daughter.
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It depend on how quickly Namshiel succeeds in eroding Marcone’s character and view of reality. Tessa did not turn on Nicodemus after he killed their daughter.
As far as we know she didn't.. But it is a case of the end justifying the means, in other words would she have done the same thing as Nic? I believe she would have.
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As far as we know she didn't.. But it is a case of the end justifying the means, in other words would she have done the same thing as Nic? I believe she would have.
She was clearly opposed to the whole thing and tried to sabotage it. But at the end the fallen in her succeeded in redirecting all that anger upon a more convenient target. In her mind she will blame Harry and Michael for her daughters dead now and not Nicodemus.
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Wait, how do we know Tessa didn't turn on Nico?
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Wait, how do we know Tessa didn't turn on Nico?
Because she did not do it when he was weakest after escaping Hades but seemed to have forgotten everything and were very cosy together attacking the carpenters who they obviously blamed for everything.
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Because she did not do it when he was weakest after escaping Hades but seemed to have forgotten everything and were very cosy together attacking the carpenters who they obviously blamed for everything.
Then again, revenge is a dish best served cold..
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Then again, revenge is a dish best served cold..
Tessa? She is not the long planning type.
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Because she did not do it when he was weakest after escaping Hades but seemed to have forgotten everything and were very cosy together attacking the carpenters who they obviously blamed for everything.
"Tessa survives this attack and reappears in Skin Game, attempting to foil Nicodemus' plans to rob a high-security vault in the Nevernever. She returns from an attack against Sanya in Iran in order to prevent Harry and Goodman Grey from kidnapping an investment banker needed for the scheme. Later, she attacks Harry as he is about to open a Way into the Nevernever that will lead to the vault. Her goal in these strikes is to stop the robbery, knowing that Nicodemus intends to sacrifice Deirdre in order to reach the vault, but she does not succeed and Deirdre is killed."
I doubt she's happy with him right now... Won't be shocked if she joins Marcone, Dresden, or anyone who will allow her to punish Nicodemus.
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"Tessa survives this attack and reappears in Skin Game, attempting to foil Nicodemus' plans to rob a high-security vault in the Nevernever. She returns from an attack against Sanya in Iran in order to prevent Harry and Goodman Grey from kidnapping an investment banker needed for the scheme. Later, she attacks Harry as he is about to open a Way into the Nevernever that will lead to the vault. Her goal in these strikes is to stop the robbery, knowing that Nicodemus intends to sacrifice Deirdre in order to reach the vault, but she does not succeed and Deirdre is killed."
I doubt she's happy with him right now... Won't be shocked if she joins Marcone, Dresden, or anyone who will allow her to punish Nicodemus.
She shouldn’t be and yet they together attack the carpenters home and seem to have forgotten all their differences blaming Harry and Michael.
This is exactly how evil puppets of the fallen would act, not how a mother whose child is just murdered would act. She did not ambush Nicodemus when he came out, she joined forces in hatred redirected.
A clear sign to me that the fallen had everything in control and had in their mind rewritten history already to blame Harry and Michael for everything and not Nicodemus.
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Well when you put it like that lol. I guess what has me wondering is even though some of the Fallen are in more of a partnership with their host, they would want to drive the host to some sort of direction.. I don't think Thorned wants to be with Marcone just to chill. I'd imagine he wants Marcone to achieve some goal of some kind. I'm wondering if these goals align with what Nic wants or the opposite of what Nic wants.
Even if they are both after the same goals for the greater glory of Hell and the consternation of the Outsiders, I doubt Namshiel would be displeased to see Anduriel stripped of his host and set back to time zero with a new dixie cup host. A great deal of his influence among the 30 seems to stem from the one who's been active continuously since they were put in the coins.
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Because she did not do it when he was weakest after escaping Hades but seemed to have forgotten everything and were very cosy together attacking the carpenters who they obviously blamed for everything.
I guess I could buy that. But in my reading I guess I assumed Nico came out and blamed Harry for her death, and she didn't know for sure at the time who all to blame, so she went for the mortal.
They didn't get along before this, so my guess was that she'd kill him for it later. But maybe not.
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I guess I could buy that. But in my reading I guess I assumed Nico came out and blamed Harry for her death, and she didn't know for sure at the time who all to blame, so she went for the mortal.
They didn't get along before this, so my guess was that she'd kill him for it later. But maybe not.
She knew what he was going to do. Nicodemus could not simply not inform her and do what he wanted. I don’t think she would just believe Nicodemus when he tells a story. Tessa probably has her own ways of knowing things.
I think only the influence of the fallen could flip her around so fast. It is exactly what I expect the fallen would do.
They are rivals but they worked together as well.
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She shouldn’t be and yet they together attack the carpenters home and seem to have forgotten all their differences blaming Harry and Michael.
This is exactly how evil puppets of the fallen would act, not how a mother whose child is just murdered would act. She did not ambush Nicodemus when he came out, she joined forces in hatred redirected.
A clear sign to me that the fallen had everything in control and had in their mind rewritten history already to blame Harry and Michael for everything and not Nicodemus.
"Tessa stood beside him in human form, wearing black trousers and a black shirt. Her expression was distant, haunted. She looked awful, thin and wasted away, like those movies of people rescued from concentration camps, but her eyes burned with some dark emotion that the word hate didn't begin to describe"
I don't know what's going on with her, but I seriously doubt it would take much to turn her against Nicodemus. A few carefully chosen words would do it I think. Something like:
"Your daughter looked so innocent, fragile when she handed the Coin to Nicodemus. She was just a child, and he murdered her. He didn't show any remorse. She was just a tool... Your little girl was property to him just like you were to your father when he traded you"
I'd imagine that would do it.
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"Tessa stood beside him in human form, wearing black trousers and a black shirt. Her expression was distant, haunted. She looked awful, thin and wasted away, like those movies of people rescued from concentration camps, but her eyes burned with some dark emotion that the word hate didn't begin to describe"
I don't know what's going on with her, but I seriously doubt it would take much to turn her against Nicodemus. A few carefully chosen words would do it I think. Something like:
"Your daughter looked so innocent, fragile when she handed the Coin to Nicodemus. She was just a child, and he murdered her. He didn't show any remorse. She was just a tool... Your little girl was property to him just like you were to your father when he traded you"
I'd imagine that would do it.
But it was turned against the carpenters and don't forget you can say what you want to a denarian host but what they hear might be something different. Maybe unless you have a sword in your hand.
This is what the fallen do. Manipulate your darkest emotions and direct you to a target. That is what Lasciel did with Hannah as well.
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But it was turned against the carpenters and don't forget you can say what you want to a denarian host but what they hear might be something different. Maybe unless you have a sword in your hand.
This is what the fallen do. Manipulate your darkest emotions and direct you to a target. That is what Lasciel did with Hannah as well.
Yeah, that is why it was such a big deal that Harry managed with some struggles at time to resist her Shadow, and actually turn things around. Wonder if that was possible because he is a star born?