ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: StrayDog on October 10, 2020, 01:25:08 AM
-
Since Harry has been promised to Lara, and Harry has had a relationship with several women, which one would you like to see him with?
-
I mean isn't he kinda-sorta already married to two of these people?
-
I mean isn't he kinda-sorta already married to two of these people?
Sure but that doesn’t stop Mab from marrying him out to Lara. So I missed the option “Mother Winter” and “All of them”
But I read should and not would and not has so my answer can be only one.
-
Sometimes I really think the position of Harry's spouse is curse much like the position of Defense of the Dark Arts professor in Hoggwarts is cursed.
Cassius's * die alone* death curse in book 7 just add fuel to the fire. Elaine is probably the luckiest one choosing to disasociate herself from Harry after her near tragedy at DuMorn's hands and she probably only survive because her relationship with Harry is before Cassius's curse. Susan also survive Harry's bad luck in love affairs when she choose to go away in book 5, but giving birth to little Maggi makes her connection with Harry too strong to break and with the Cassius's curse taking effect, she died in the end. The last one, Murphy, does not even last a year. The *Die alone* curse is really insidious.
As such I think Lara is the best as Harry's main love interest. At least if the curse strike again, it will kill one of the monsters instead of good people like Murphy. Though I doubt it would work. I don't think Harry could love a woman the same way he love Susan or Murphy ever again and therefore even if Harry stay with someone he will always be alone anyway. The curse won't strike if it stay that way.
-
Personally I'm not sure if Cassius's Death Curse is that much of a thing.
1) He wasn't Wizard enough to kill Harry, seems kinda silly that he can kill every SO Harry ever has.
2) Margaret's Death Curse only hung around for so long because she anchored it to her bloodline. Logically, snake boy's curse would have burned up by now since we've had a couple thousand sunrises since then.
So yeah, wouldn't be surprised if this is mostly just Harry having miserable luck.
-
Personally I'm not sure if Cassius's Death Curse is that much of a thing.
1) He wasn't Wizard enough to kill Harry, seems kinda silly that he can kill every SO Harry ever has.
2) Margaret's Death Curse only hung around for so long because she anchored it to her bloodline. Logically, snake boy's curse would have burned up by now since we've had a couple thousand sunrises since then.
So yeah, wouldn't be surprised if this is mostly just Harry having miserable luck.
Cassius might not be able to cast a long lasting death curse by his own power, but if it is only to aggravate an already bad spell to begin with, well, it could become something deadly.
Even if we discount Cassius's curse, Harry's birth is shrouded in many mysteries in itself. First he is starborn. I don't really know what significance his birth carry, , but the fact he is starborn makes him a target of many great powers even since his conception. Second, his mother died via an entropy curse during his birth. As we know an entropy curse is exactly a type of bad luck curse. Who know what kind of energies attached to the newly born Harry at the time. He also gotten marked by HWW behind.
What I wanted to say is this. It would not surprise me if Harry's mmisfortune turn out to be more complicated than just simple bad luck and Cassius's *die alone* curse just added to it. There sure as heck enough background reason should Butcher choose to tell the story this way.
-
I'm surprised nobody thinks Sarissa is a good candidate. Nightingale relationships are regular, almost commonplace, in real life as well as literary worlds.
-
Sure but that doesn’t stop Mab from marrying him out to Lara. So I missed the option “Mother Winter” and “All of them”
It was pointed out in another thread that the contract was with the Mantel and not the person. Can there be a marriage with a non-corporeal force?
-
It was pointed out in another thread that the contract was with the Mantel and not the person. Can there be a marriage with a non-corporeal force?
You can get a child with a non corporeal force so it should be possible.
-
You can get a child with a non corporeal force so it should be possible.
Wasn't that with a Fallen Angel? Non-corporeal for sure but also a sentient being.
-
Wasn't that with a Fallen Angel? Non-corporeal for sure but also a sentient being.
Of course it must be a sentient being otherwise it can not give consent.
-
Of course historically consent of the bride or groom was not always an essential part.
-
Of course it must be a sentient being otherwise it can not give consent.
I'm not sure which "it" you're referring to, Lash or Mantel? Likewise not sure where "consent" fits in ...
-
I'm not sure which "it" you're referring to, Lash or Mantel? Likewise not sure where "consent" fits in ...
I am sure Mab agrees with you here.
-
Looks like it's coming down to Lara or nobody right now.
-
Looks like it's coming down to Lara or nobody right now.
Or Lara and somebody. Butters started a trend and Lara won’t mind.
-
If Harry doesn't die, he certainly can't die alone....
I voted for Elaine.
-
Or Lara and somebody. Butters started a trend and Lara won’t mind.
Well, Freydis is just hanging around...
-
Looks like it's coming down to Lara or nobody right now.
And in the actual books, Jim will write what he wants and it will be Molly coming out on top in the end 8)
-
And in the actual books, Jim will write what he wants and it will be Molly coming out on top in the end 8)
Molly deserves better!
-
Molly deserves better!
Your right, Molly does deserve better than to be stuck in Winter not able to be with the man she loves. That's why a relationship between Harry and Molly will start to happen soon and love that blossoms between them will break her free. ;D
-
Your right, Molly does deserve better than to be stuck in Winter not able to be with the man she loves. That's why a relationship between Harry and Molly will start to happen soon and love that blossoms between them will break her free. ;D
I think I threw up in my mouth a bit there but got a chuckle out of it anyway. :)
-
I think I threw up in my mouth a bit there but got a chuckle out of it anyway. :)
Yeah, that was a bit smarmy.
I am serious though about a relationship between them would set her free. If you see how Jim has set things up for paths to go down, and add in WOJ's, he has set it up that a relationship between them would force Mab's hand in regards to her hold on both of them. Molly only knows that laying with a man would set the mantle on protection mode. But Jim had just said something about trust and overriding it.
And try as you might to stop the idea of
a relationship between them happening, it's set up in the story to happen. All Jim has to do is put it in motion. He's already blown up one ship, the SS Molly/Carlos, and sank the SS Harry/Murphy. And with 8 books left, it's plenty of time to sink the SS Harry/Lara, set sail the SS Harry/Molly, sink that (even though I don't want that to happen), and set sail another ship, for it to end at the end with Harry's death.
-
of
a relationship between them happening, it's set up in the story to happen. All Jim has to do is put it in motion. He's already blown up one ship, the SS Molly/Carlos, and sank the SS Harry/Murphy. And with 8 books left, it's plenty of time to sink the SS Harry/Lara, set sail the SS Harry/Molly, sink that (even though I don't want that to happen), and set sail another ship, for it to end at the end with Harry's death.
Hmmm, eight books, well, we only have to wait sixteen to forty-eight years to find out how it all turns out...
-
And try as you might to stop the idea of
a relationship between them happening, ...
Having previously stated that this is JB's world and JB can play it anyway he wants as well as saying variety in opinions and discussion make life more interesting, I'm not trying to stop anything. If JB wants to present the path that is so glaringly obvious that it border on cliché he is welcome to do so just as some are welcome to praise it and other are welcome to pan it. My reasons for saying Molly deserves better would be a rant so long readers would dose off trying to get through it (much like I did when reading parts of BG).
-
Hey, I get it. Harry has c***blocked himself from her for so long that it's ridiculous. It makes you wonder why or realize how much Molly cares for and loves Harry.
The Harry/Murphy will they/won't they dance went on too long, then ended just as it really started to get off the ground. We got one book total of them together then she died.
So the torch Molly is holding for Harry is pretty big to burn this long. And if it has burned this long, it's gonna have to be something big or extravagant for the payoff to make it worthwhile for the reader. It can be done. Some books and TV shows have done this trope and it comes out fine if not good or great. Though I don't know if one has gone on this long
-
Hmmm, eight books, well, we only have to wait sixteen to forty-eight years to find out how it all turns out...
Lol. It will be interesting to see how his pace is now that he's got his own place again to write. Also whether he alternates back and forth between Dresden and CS after the next CS book. If he does that, he'd more or less wrap up CS in time to then focus on BAT. At least prior to PT/BG he was pretty good for a book a year, so there's hope!
-
Hey, I get it. Harry has c***blocked himself from her for so long that it's ridiculous. It makes you wonder why or realize how much Molly cares for and loves Harry.
The Harry/Murphy will they/won't they dance went on too long, then ended just as it really started to get off the ground. We got one book total of them together then she died.
So the torch Molly is holding for Harry is pretty big to burn this long. And if it has burned this long, it's gonna have to be something big or extravagant for the payoff to make it worthwhile for the reader. It can be done. Some books and TV shows have done this trope and it comes out fine if not good or great. Though I don't know if one has gone on this long
Maybe LotR but they both had moved on before deciding they wanted to be together. Would still probably count as the same but I don't remember how long they were apart and they had gotten together before splitting.
-
IMO, on Mab's sudden alliance marriage:
1. Mab is scared of a breakdown between her court and the white court due to Thomas being removed from the picture. She is also concerned Murphy's death may affect her winter knight in ways that make him even harder to control, and incorrectly guesses any woman will do as a replacement (Fairy thinking).
2. She is POed about how the Council has treated her knight, who is *hers* and is likely lashing out at them also.
3. She's also up to something, and I think she doesn't really think this alliance will go through as a marriage, but might be trying to get Dresden and Molly to work out their unresolved feelings. I think she's trying to give Harry a bodyguard not only due to the council threat toward him, but due some upcoming events where a super-powered girlfriend would be able to keep up and survive.
4. In the short story int he back, it looks like Mab watched Disney's Frozen with Molly, so I think we know where the sudden marriage idea is coming from there. ;D
-
That was Sarissa. Mab still has her evenings out with Sarissa apparently so in that one Maeve failed again.
-
@Doughnut Despot
Point 1. - Not the breakdown she would be concerned with. Winter's image to the Accorded Nations because of the Lara/Harry pantomime, YES. Hence the marriage. She couldn't care less about Harry's feelings towards Murphy death.
Point 2. - Even Harry has poo poo this, Mab does NOT think this way.
Point 3. - Mab is always planning and none of it is going to involve caring about anybody's feelings, least of all two of her vassals who should get over it and do their jobs. A Harry/Lara pairing is indeed strong in more that "a bodyguard for Harry" way. BTW - A bodyguard for her bodyguard? Mab? Probably not.
Point 4. - Molly said that Sarissa showed Mab Frozen and it seems very unlikely that a political marriage (the norm in Mab's day) came from a Disney movie. Also remember Mab's feelings towards Disney, I'm more amazed that Mab actually watched the movie in the first place.
-
2. She is POed about how the Council has treated her knight, who is *hers* and is likely lashing out at them also.
Between Harry throwing up a shield (before Eb could) and sweeping Mab behind him in a protected position and then summing some 250,000 wild Fae (something almost never heard of) the leaders of which are all decked out in shiny Fae plate, banging their chest plates, ringing like little bells. She couldn't have orchestrated the Council throwing Harry out any better. She wants a wedge driven between Harry and this potential support group as much as possible. The Council has far dirtier hands in Harry's life then he knows about which is why Mab made the comment to Eb. She's not POed at the Council, she just scored several points against them.
-
Between Harry throwing up a shield (before Eb could) and sweeping Mab behind him in a protected position and then summing some 250,000 wild Fae (something almost never heard of) the leaders of which are all decked out in shiny Fae plate, banging their chest plates, ringing like little bells. She couldn't have orchestrated the Council throwing Harry out any better. She wants a wedge driven between Harry and this potential support group as much as possible. The Council has far dirtier hands in Harry's life then he knows about which is why Mab made the comment to Eb. She's not POed at the Council, she just scored several points against them.
Agreed, though I might add, Eb (while working for the WC) actually does have Harry's well being in mind. He just also is working in WC bs. Mab is not the boss Harry should have to work for, it's just the only one he can work with because he knows where she stands.
-
Agreed, though I might add, Eb (while working for the WC) actually does have Harry's well being in mind. He just also is working in WC bs. Mab is not the boss Harry should have to work for, it's just the only one he can work with because he knows where she stands.
Does he or is he just covering his own backside
-
Does he or is he just covering his own backside
I think Eb is conflicted by a lot of things, his sense of guilt about his daughter and Harry is his grandson, verses the Council's goals that he has been part of for a couple centuries or so.
He has benefited also from angles the Council has maneuvered before. Yes, there is no doubt now
that the Blackstaff is Mother Winter's walking stick, her silhouette appeared transposed on Eb when he went full out with it. How much you want to be that the Council was behind it's theft in the first place? They wanted the Eye, if Harry had just come forward and handed it to them, he'd still be a member I think.
I don't think Harry needs to marry, he has a daughter, a dog, and a cat, he isn't ever going to be lonely.
-
Technically, he has two daughters ... but loneliness has nothing to do with an arranged marriage. :)
-
@Doughnut Despot
Point 1. - Not the breakdown she would be concerned with. Winter's image to the Accorded Nations because of the Lara/Harry pantomime, YES. Hence the marriage. She couldn't care less about Harry's feelings towards Murphy death.
Point 2. - Even Harry has poo poo this, Mab does NOT think this way.
Point 3. - Mab is always planning and none of it is going to involve caring about anybody's feelings, least of all two of her vassals who should get over it and do their jobs. A Harry/Lara pairing is indeed strong in more that "a bodyguard for Harry" way. BTW - A bodyguard for her bodyguard? Mab? Probably not.
Point 4. - Molly said that Sarissa showed Mab Frozen and it seems very unlikely that a political marriage (the norm in Mab's day) came from a Disney movie. Also remember Mab's feelings towards Disney, I'm more amazed that Mab actually watched the movie in the first place.
1. But remember, she was proud Harry had not given into the Winter Mantle like the last Knight she had to replace. And then Karen dies and he does give in to it. I think Mab has a vested interest in keeping Harry mentally and emotionally stable. Not because she necessarily feels about it, but because it's practical for her to care about her knight being effective.
2. Harry is an unreliable narrator who has done a 180 on his views before, and his grown and understanding about the world have already changed dramatically. Look how upset Mab gets when he crosses her will. She is concerned about the Winter/White Court relationship, so the Council continuing to rebuff her probably DOES PO her. IMO she wants everything she can get connected to Winter.
3. I think it's been established the fairy get some precognition as to when trouble is coming down the pipe. Mab is a schemer, so I see this as part of an upcoming scheme in which it's important to her agenda. And not just at the political level. I certainly get the impression she's planning more than meets the eye here.
4. Agreed, but I can see her thinking that Frozen is how mortals think about romance, which is just...so freaking wrong.
-
Technically, he has two daughters ... but loneliness has nothing to do with an arranged marriage. :)
Who is Eb's other daughter? Two great grand daughters, but only one daughter as far as I know.
In an arranged marriage, no, but marriage for the sake of being married? Loneliness is a factor.
-
Who is Eb's other daughter? Two great grand daughters, but only one daughter as far as I know.
Eb? We were talking about Harry. You said "I don't think Harry needs to marry, he has a daughter, a dog, and a cat, he isn't ever going to be lonely." - Harry has two daughters, Maggie (who is awesome because she eats her fries with mustard like me!) and Bonnie...
In an arranged marriage, no, but marriage for the sake of being married? Loneliness is a factor.
But ... the upcoming Harry/Lara thing is an arranged marriage, so I'm not sure how that factors in?
-
Sorry, we were also talking about Eb, but you are right Harry has two daughters.
-
1. But remember, she was proud Harry had not given into the Winter Mantle like the last Knight she had to replace. And then Karen dies and he does give in to it. I think Mab has a vested interest in keeping Harry mentally and emotionally stable. Not because she necessarily feels about it, but because it's practical for her to care about her knight being effective.
2. Harry is an unreliable narrator who has done a 180 on his views before, and his grown and understanding about the world have already changed dramatically. Look how upset Mab gets when he crosses her will. She is concerned about the Winter/White Court relationship, so the Council continuing to rebuff her probably DOES PO her. IMO she wants everything she can get connected to Winter.
3. I think it's been established the fairy get some precognition as to when trouble is coming down the pipe. Mab is a schemer, so I see this as part of an upcoming scheme in which it's important to her agenda. And not just at the political level. I certainly get the impression she's planning more than meets the eye here.
4. Agreed, but I can see her thinking that Frozen is how mortals think about romance, which is just...so freaking wrong.
1. Mab has feelings of her own, this isn't really the discussion. Seems that she is then more concerned about how she can use these emotions to further her plans, remember their conversation about the Za guard.
2. Agreed! Harry is an unreliable narrator who frequently flip flops on things.
3. Completely agree!
4. LOL 8)
-
Thing is, Jim was going to have a line about Frozen in the book but his beta readers told him the movie hadn't come out yet for when the time period of this book is.
-
Your right, Molly does deserve better than to be stuck in Winter not able to be with the man she loves. That's why a relationship between Harry and Molly will start to happen soon and love that blossoms between them will break her free. ;D
"The hottest romance began in the coldest of places"....should be a byline for a bodice ripper authored by Bob.
I'm also on Team Molly.
-
"The hottest romance began in the coldest of places"....should be a byline for a bodice ripper authored by Bob.
I'm also on Team Molly.
Welcome to the club. We meet every 6th Saturday of the month.
-
Welcome to the club. We meet every 6th Saturday of the month.
All Y'all say it with me, Molly deserves better! ;P
-
All Y'all say it with me, Molly deserves better! ;P
Yes at the end of the series she can be mother winter!
-
Yes at the end of the series she can be mother winter!
That would be interesting wouldn't it
-
All Y'all say it with me, Molly deserves better! ;P
https://images.app.goo.gl/1bXC63UvRJzDnw3g6
In all honesty though, who in the series, in your opinion, is better for her? Nobody we've been introduced to comes to mind for me. Those that have been are now dead or assholes.
-
https://images.app.goo.gl/1bXC63UvRJzDnw3g6
In all honesty though, who in the series, in your opinion, is better for her? Nobody we've been introduced to comes to mind for me. Those that have been are now dead or assholes.
Why does she have to have a husband? Why does it have to be someone we've already been introduced to?
-
Why does she have to have a husband? Why does it have to be someone we've already been introduced to?
Exactly, she doesn't, she'd like to have sex at some point, but apparently she isn't allowed, at least with mortals.
-
Why does she have to have a husband? Why does it have to be someone we've already been introduced to?
Well, this whole thread has been about Harry marrying someone, I guessed you had someone in mind for her. And if she deserves better, than she deserves to be rid of the mantle and be able to live her life, free will and all. And the only way that happens is with Harry since he won't leave without her. So her better is with Harry.
-
Exactly, she doesn't, she'd like to have sex at some point, but apparently she isn't allowed, at least with mortals.
In cold case it was specifically stated, no sex. No exceptions otherwise Maeve or Lilly wouldn't be that frustrated.
-
Well, this whole thread has been about Harry marrying someone, I guessed you had someone in mind for her. And if she deserves better, than she deserves to be rid of the mantle and be able to live her life, free will and all. And the only way that happens is with Harry since he won't leave without her. So her better is with Harry.
You did ask a specific question and deserve a specific answer. I personally feel that Harry is borderline narcissistic and a danger to almost everyone. Lara appears to me to be the best match and the most likely to survive in close proximity to him. There is plenty of fertile literary ground if JB wanted to bring Carlos and Molly together. This would provide any number of tension causing side plots for JB to write. That aside, I would prefer Molly stay single for a while before JB introduces us to a more suitable match.
-
You did ask a specific question and deserve a specific answer. I personally feel that Harry is borderline narcissistic and a danger to almost everyone. Lara appears to me to be the best match and the most likely to survive in close proximity to him. There is plenty of fertile literary ground if JB wanted to bring Carlos and Molly together. This would provide any number of tension causing side plots for JB to write. That aside, I would prefer Molly stay single for a while before JB introduces us to a more suitable match.
Did you read Cold Case, Molly/Carlos ain't happening. That ship was never launched, it never was to be. It exploded at the dock, never to be rebuilt. Carlos still has nightmares about that. Just look at his reaction in PT and BG to any mention of Molly. No amount of time is going to erase that trauma
-
Did you read Cold Case, Molly/Carlos ain't happening. That ship was never launched, it never was to be. It exploded at the dock, never to be rebuilt. Carlos still has nightmares about that. Just look at his reaction in PT and BG to any mention of Molly. No amount of time is going to erase that trauma
Yes I did, several times in fact, thank you for asking. Since death is not final in Dresdenverse, nothing is final. There are three cheesy easy ways to bring them together. Next book will have different dimensions, maybe one has Carlos & Molly Ramirez spinning Cold Case as an improbable yarn to their dubious grandchildren. Towards the end of the series there will be time travel, maybe Harry goes back and Molly was never the Winter Lady. Maybe even SURPRISE, it was Nemesis all along. After all, he's already taken two other Fae Ladies. Pretty much any slipshod poser could write any of the above situations. I feel that JB is the caliber of author who can finesse Molly and Carlos into circumstances where they work out what happened, build trust, and have that type of relationship people dream of.
-
If marriage has a real, ritual effect in the Dresdenverse, then being 'one flesh' should allow his wife access to Dresden's healing abilities.
I'd been curious as to whether that was going to end up healing Murph.
So much for that.
None of the other ladies really need this ability.
-
Yes I did, several times in fact, thank you for asking. Since death is not final in Dresdenverse, nothing is final. There are three cheesy easy ways to bring them together. Next book will have different dimensions, maybe one has Carlos & Molly Ramirez spinning Cold Case as an improbable yard to their dubious grandchildren. Towards the end of the series there will be time travel, maybe Harry goes back and Molly was never the Winter Lady. Maybe even SURPRISE, it was Nemesis all along. After all, he's already taken two other Fae Ladies. Pretty much any slipshod poser could write any of the above situations. I feel that JB is the caliber of author who can finesse Molly and Carlos into circumstances where they work out what happened, build trust, and have that type of relationship people dream of.
Which was one of the possible futures Harry saw in his soul gaze with her in Proven Guilty, middle aged, happy, surrounded by her children.
-
Yes I did, several times in fact, thank you for asking. Since death is not final in Dresdenverse, nothing is final. There are three cheesy easy ways to bring them together. Next book will have different dimensions, maybe one has Carlos & Molly Ramirez spinning Cold Case as an improbable yard to their dubious grandchildren. Towards the end of the series there will be time travel, maybe Harry goes back and Molly was never the Winter Lady. Maybe even SURPRISE, it was Nemesis all along. After all, he's already taken two other Fae Ladies. Pretty much any slipshod poser could write any of the above situations. I feel that JB is the caliber of author who can finesse Molly and Carlos into circumstances where they work out what happened, build trust, and have that type of relationship people dream of.
Yeah, problem with that is she's not interested in him. Never was. And she is on the WC behead on site list. And with Carlos now full WC lackey, not trusting Harry or Molly, I don't see Jim writing a love story between them when he blew up that ship hard before. He could have had Wild Bill go and be her sidekick for CC. Instead he had Carlos. Plant distrust in his mind that blossoms and we get BG ending. There is no going back for Harry or Molly. There is no fixing what has happened. There can't be. So there can't be another team up for trust building between Molly and Carlos. That ship, once again, sank before it sailed.
-
Yeah, problem with that is she's not interested in him. Never was. And she is on the WC behead on site list. And with Carlos now full WC lackey, not trusting Harry or Molly, I don't see Jim writing a love story between them when he blew up that ship hard before. He could have had Wild Bill go and be her sidekick for CC. Instead he had Carlos. Plant distrust in his mind that blossoms and we get BG ending. There is no going back for Harry or Molly. There is no fixing what has happened. There can't be. So there can't be another team up for trust building between Molly and Carlos. That ship, once again, sank before it sailed.
I don't disagree, however Molly and Carlos did show some attraction to one another and "flirted" a little in White Night. But apparently that seed landed on some very jagged rocks and met with disaster.
-
Yeah, problem with that is she's not interested in him. Never was. And she is on the WC behead on site list. And with Carlos now full WC lackey, not trusting Harry or Molly, I don't see Jim writing a love story between them when he blew up that ship hard before. He could have had Wild Bill go and be her sidekick for CC. Instead he had Carlos. Plant distrust in his mind that blossoms and we get BG ending. There is no going back for Harry or Molly. There is no fixing what has happened. There can't be. So there can't be another team up for trust building between Molly and Carlos. That ship, once again, sank before it sailed.
Love the nautical theme but never say never, especially in literature.
-
I don't disagree, however Molly and Carlos did show some attraction to one another and "flirted" a little in White Night. But apparently that seed landed on some very jagged rocks and met with disaster.
So, after Justine falls to Nemesis (child saved, of course) Thomas and Molly could hook up; after all in SF there seemed to be some attraction beyond just vamp and food.
But eh, that's far creepier than Harry-Molly :p
Sanya-Molly however sounds entirely appropriate, though Sanya is getting a bit old for it.
-
Molly still wears her heart on her cold sleeve for Harry, but after her experience with Carlos has resigned herself to that can never be. That is the feeling I got as per their conversation in the limo after Mab sprung the nuptial news on Harry. I also think she knew this was in the wind before hand, that would account for the literally frosty looks and if looks could kill exchange that she had with Lara when she and Harry returned to shore after defeating the kracken. Given that the Files is Harry's memoirs looking back, it is significant I think that he makes a point that that exchange between them went over his head and he missed it. Definite dirty,icy water ahead....
To put it mildly, Molly doesn't approve. Here is a wild thought, maybe Mab wanted Harry to kill Molly if she fell in battle, not because she is worried about how Molly would rule, but because that would blow up her wedding plans for Harry and Lara.
-
Up this moment the only logical candidate who Harry should marry is falling behind a lady who can't have sex and will kill you if you try and another one who eats you during sex.
Really a good relationship asks for different qualities. I suppose we have Harry's best interests in mind otherwise Tessa showed interest.
-
Up this moment the only logical candidate who Harry should marry is falling behind a lady who can't have sex and will kill you if you try and another one who eats you during sex.
Really a good relationship asks for different qualities. I suppose we have Harry's best interests in mind otherwise Tessa showed interest.
Well, you will notice Harry and Molly are very "brother/sister" these days, not just because Harry and Murphy were an item. But Molly would respect that, then, and now that she is dead, time is on her side.
-
Up this moment the only logical candidate who Harry should marry is falling behind a lady who can't have sex and will kill you if you try and another one who eats you during sex.
Really a good relationship asks for different qualities. I suppose we have Harry's best interests in mind otherwise Tessa showed interest.
I forgot about Tessa or maybe subconsciously knew she wasn't a candidate. The Kirk Curse is in the lead.
-
I forgot about Tessa or maybe subconsciously knew she wasn't a candidate. The Kirk Curse is in the lead.
Which is awful because it is a curse from a former denarian. Harry is a family man, he wants a happy marriage. If you choose the curse you actually stand behind it. In a way you strengthen it even maybe.
So revoke the curse and look for what is really good for Harry. That is what should means unless you are in league with the enemies of Harry who wish him evil.
-
Which is awful because it is a curse from a former denarian. Harry is a family man, he wants a happy marriage. If you choose the curse you actually stand behind it. In a way you strengthen it even maybe.
So revoke the curse and look for what is really good for Harry. That is what should means unless you are in league with the enemies of Harry who wish him evil.
Ah, but the thread title and poll ask a different question. Harry should marry Lara because otherwise he's toast. But that doesn't mean I would necessary like him marrying Lara the most (though it's certainly an intriguing option rife with drama).
-
Which is awful because it is a curse from a former denarian. Harry is a family man, he wants a happy marriage. If you choose the curse you actually stand behind it. In a way you strengthen it even maybe.
So revoke the curse and look for what is really good for Harry. That is what should means unless you are in league with the enemies of Harry who wish him evil.
LOL Depending on the day and my mood, I frequently am in league with Harry's enemies then :D Wishing the best for Harry is what led me to vote for Lara as Harry's wife and well ... everyone knows my feeling about Molly .... [I know you just said it ;) ]
-
Ah, but the thread title and poll ask a different question. Harry should marry Lara because otherwise he's toast. But that doesn't mean I would necessary like him marrying Lara the most (though it's certainly an intriguing option rife with drama).
Maybe the title but that can be interpreted in several ways but the explanation in the first post says “would you like to be with him”
But of course you could say he should marry Lara because Mab said so and she is boss and I don’t want reality overrun by outsiders and Mab knows best.
-
Look at it this way, if by some off chance that she agrees to marry him, at least Molly has
a better idea than most, she has soul gazed the guy.. But it ain't going to happen.
-
Look at it this way, if by some off chance that she agrees to marry him, at least Molly has
a better idea than most, she has soul gazed the guy.. But it ain't going to happen.
Not as long as she is the winter lady anyway, the mantle would go berserk.
-
Not as long as she is the winter lady anyway, the mantle would go berserk.
Harry has experience with a berserker in his love life :-[
-
Harry has experience with a berserker in his love life :-[
A part of me would love to see Molly as the Winter Queen once Mab moves to Mother Winter. From the looks of it Lara could break out a level of psycho that would give you ... ahem ... nightmares for years too.
-
All Y'all say it with me, Molly deserves better! ;P
To quote Harry Dresden quoting Clint Eastwood, deserves got nothin' to do with it. But seriously, I'm not so sure Molly deserves better. I don't think Harry is borderline narcissistic. Molly is in his havoc radius regardless. Jim said he made her Winter Lady because it was worse than just killing her. Molly was having a real hard time not being a warlock. I'm not sure if she's what one would call a good person.
Did you read Cold Case, Molly/Carlos ain't happening. That ship was never launched, it never was to be. It exploded at the dock, never to be rebuilt.
"This parrot is no more."
-
To quote Harry Dresden quoting Clint Eastwood, deserves got nothin' to do with it. But seriously, I'm not so sure Molly deserves better. I don't think Harry is borderline narcissistic. Molly is in his havoc radius regardless. Jim said he made her Winter Lady because it was worse than just killing her. Molly was having a real hard time not being a warlock. I'm not sure if she's what one would call a good person.
This makes me want to see Molly grow into the Winter Queen role that much more!!
-
This makes me want to see Molly grow into the Winter Queen role that much more!!
:D
-
You want to REALLY go off the reservation? Here's one.... LASH!
Wasn't she supposedly dead and gone when Harry was plucking the guitar and suddenly played well, and she said "Anything I can, my host"? And she was still around enough to gestate Harry's younger daughter... maybe something of her is still back there, he freed her of Lasciel.
Something that might come about with Harry and Molly - she is now his boss - so he will see her more as an equal and less an apprentice (Harry doesn't think of himself as much less than Mab other than raw power). But... maybe not while Charity and Michael are still alive. It would look creepy. So maybe in 50 years. Meanwhile, maybe she can get her rocks off with Mac. He isn't human. And he seems good at pretty much everything else....
Nautical? Molly and Carlos? Think the Vasa.....
Oh, and remember Lara and Harry would be a POLITICAL marriage - either or both could have something on the side if they are discreet. Papa Raith apparently did. Just if he falls in love... do not touch skin. Be a formal consort and wear gloves a lot... she pictured him in white silk once, when she asked if he wanted to stay with the WC.... could she be getting her Knight in white satin? (Apologies to the Moody Blues)
-
Oh, and meant to add for Lash - if the Knight spends more time in Winter - maybe he can make a body of ectoplasm for her psyche to inhabit... just while they are in Fairie.... see how they get along... then ... how old is that little girl that Marcone shot by accident? The one in the Wisconsin nursing home? If her mind is gone, maybe the body is for rent?
-
Oh, and meant to add for Lash - if the Knight spends more time in Winter - maybe he can make a body of ectoplasm for her psyche to inhabit... just while they are in Fairie.... see how they get along... then ... how old is that little girl that Marcone shot by accident? The one in the Wisconsin nursing home? If her mind is gone, maybe the body is for rent?
Perhaps, but that I think would be a huge mistake. Who knows? Maybe Marcone made a bargain with Namshiel to heal the now young woman if he can.
-
Perhaps, but that I think would be a huge mistake. Who knows? Maybe Marcone made a bargain with Namshiel to heal the now young woman if he can.
Oh, you know he's at least asked about it. That would be very important to him. I mean he went after the Shroud of Turin just on the hopes it would help her.
-
Oh, you know he's at least asked about it. That would be very important to him. I mean he went after the Shroud of Turin just on the hopes it would help her.
I think before all of this is over, that now young comatose woman is going to play a significant role in Marcone's fate. While yeah, Jim can change his mind, but in Storm Front, that little corner of guilt/humanity/maybe weakness that Harry saw in the soul gaze. Marcone's attempt to heal her with the Shroud in Dead Beat, his hiring of her mother for his secretary, it is a "weakness." Here is a thought, she may become a subject for blackmail on Nic's part to control both Marcone and Namshiel.
-
Or blackmail by Namshiel to keep Marcone on his leash. "Sure, one day we'll fix that, but first we must..."
-
Or blackmail by Namshiel to keep Marcone on his leash. "Sure, one day we'll fix that, but first we must..."
That too, there is some evidence that Jim has been of two minds with Marcone, there are even rumors that he considered him as a Knight of the Cross at one time.. Now he seems to have gone to the other extreme with him. Yet what he did for Chicago was good, right? But then again it is a way that some terrorists and drug cartels get the local populace on their side.
-
Harry has the real Shroud.
We know that Marcone has one trait of decency about harming or involving children, especially the wounded girl. Marcone would do almost anything to save her, that is the driving motivation that led him to where he is today.
So if Harry is ever in desperate straits and needs a favor from Marcone, he can offer the use of the shroud(preferably on the shore of Demonreach).
-
Harry has the real Shroud.
We know that Marcone has one trait of decency about harming or involving children, especially the wounded girl. Marcone would do almost anything to save her, that is the driving motivation that led him to where he is today.
So if Harry is ever in desperate straits and needs a favor from Marcone, he can offer the use of the shroud(preferably on the shore of Demonreach).
Marcone already tried the Shroud. It didn't help the girl.
-
Marcone already tried the Shroud. It didn't help the girl.
He tried the Shroud of Turin, which was a "fake." It's noted in SG that the Shroud is older than the Shroud of Turin.
-
Harry has the real Shroud.
We know that Marcone has one trait of decency about harming or involving children, especially the wounded girl. Marcone would do almost anything to save her, that is the driving motivation that led him to where he is today.
So if Harry is ever in desperate straits and needs a favor from Marcone, he can offer the use of the shroud(preferably on the shore of Demonreach).
Yeah sure, let's just hand over a Magical WMD over to a Denarian, I see zero flaws in this plan.
-
Vincentric said on the shore of Demonreach. Then it's a win-win.
-
If Harry has half a brain, he would have the girl delivered to the island by someone, not Marcone himself due to the coin, and then try to heal her. But I don't think he would ever use the girl as a bargaining chip. No, there is a chance that he knows how the Shroud works and it is not like that. But if healing is an option, I think Harry will call Marcone and do it for the woman's sake. No price, no deal. Of course, Marcone would feel grateful if it works.
-
Molly is the logical candidate for Harry, if she became mortal again. However, I have a feeling that while Harry is getting himself out of the Winter Knight's job, Molly will make the choice to remain an immortal. It's mostly just a feeling, but Molly has said that her work as the Winter Lady is important. I can't picture Molly running away from her responsibilities unless there was someone ready to jump into her current position. I suppose Lea could do the job, but that doesn't feel right to me either. (Even if I ignore the possible virginity element to the job.)
-
Molly is the logical candidate for Harry, if she became mortal again. However, I have a feeling that while Harry is getting himself out of the Winter Knight's job, Molly will make the choice to remain an immortal. It's mostly just a feeling, but Molly has said that her work as the Winter Lady is important. I can't picture Molly running away from her responsibilities unless there was someone ready to jump into the jump. I suppose Lea could do the job, but that doesn't feel right to me either. (Even if I ignore the possible virginity element to the job.)
I think it may hinge on the outcome of the BAT. It may bring about a whole new order to the universe. In the universe Molly could be free to go, or marry. But who knows what Harry's feelings will be by then? Or Molly's feelings for that matter.
One question is will Harry ever be mature enough to have a decent relationship with any woman?
By that, I mean there was an element of "mommy" in both Susan and Murphy. There is a part of Harry that wants to be mothered, perhaps because he never had one, and the "sage" advice both women gave Harry filled that void.
-
Molly is the logical candidate for Harry, if she became mortal again. However, I have a feeling that while Harry is getting himself out of the Winter Knight's job, Molly will make the choice to remain an immortal. It's mostly just a feeling, but Molly has said that her work as the Winter Lady is important. I can't picture Molly running away from her responsibilities unless there was someone ready to jump into the jump. I suppose Lea could do the job, but that doesn't feel right to me either. (Even if I ignore the possible virginity element to the job.)
Or if Mab dies.
-
Molly is the logical candidate for Harry, if she became mortal again. However, I have a feeling that while Harry is getting himself out of the Winter Knight's job, Molly will make the choice to remain an immortal. It's mostly just a feeling, but Molly has said that her work as the Winter Lady is important. I can't picture Molly running away from her responsibilities unless there was someone ready to jump into the jump. I suppose Lea could do the job, but that doesn't feel right to me either. (Even if I ignore the possible virginity element to the job.)
Virginity isn't an issue. While we don't know Sarrisa's status in that, Lily wasn't. She was raped by Slate.
Otherwise I agree with this. I have had the feeling too that Harry and Molly will be separated. Harry will stumble and bumble his way out of the WK gig and Molly will be left behind. Or she will use her favor with Harry to make him leave her behind. Then, eventually she will be forced out and Lacuna will become the new WL. Right now she looks to be the only logical candidate. With the WK gig going to Thomas or Toot Toot
-
Molly is the logical candidate for Harry, if she became mortal again. However, I have a feeling that while Harry is getting himself out of the Winter Knight's job, Molly will make the choice to remain an immortal. It's mostly just a feeling, but Molly has said that her work as the Winter Lady is important. I can't picture Molly running away from her responsibilities unless there was someone ready to jump into her current position. I suppose Lea could do the job, but that doesn't feel right to me either. (Even if I ignore the possible virginity element to the job.)
I have feeling Faerie Courts shall be destroyed by end of BAT, so while Molly will survive - mantle of Winter Lady shall not. (Nor Mothers nor Mab).
And that will also of course free Harry from Winter Knight.
No Winter Court, no Winter Court responsibilities.
Black Court of Vampires shall be blackmailed (sic!) to guard Outer Gates in new age, so they shall get a free hand in robbing graveyards from bodies, but won't be able to prey on mankind as much ;)
One question is will Harry ever be mature enough to have a decent relationship with any woman?
By that, I mean there was an element of "mommy" in both Susan and Murphy. There is a part of Harry that wants to be mothered, perhaps because he never had one, and the "sage" advice both women gave Harry filled that void.
Was it with Susan? I had a feeling she was quite a dummy at least in first trilogy. (I'd say that could definitely be a thing with Luccio though).
But then Dresden's lifestyle so far never sort of lead to him having relationship beyond dating, that's another question. (Which is another reason I wished Mursden was longer a thing.)
With the WK gig going to Thomas or Toot Toot
Within current rules Toot Toot cannot become WK
-
As per Mab's reasoning for Thomas to take over the WK mantle, he loves, that's human enough.
And part WoJ, all of Fairie has a bit of mortal life in them, some more than others. Toot has the potential to be the WK.
-
Was it with Susan? I had a feeling she was quite a dummy at least in first trilogy. (I'd say that could definitely be a thing with Luccio though).
But then Dresden's lifestyle so far never sort of lead to him having relationship beyond dating, that's another question. (Which is another reason I wished Mursden was longer a thing.)
Susan wasn't a dummy, but her ambition over ruled her brains. But yeah, Harry had a dependency on her that gave me that feeling. Very true as far as his lifestyle goes, but that is why Molly would ultimately be the best partner for him, she understands where he is coming from being a wizard, herself. I don't think Murphy ever fully understood Harry, and yes, you can love someone but not understand them.
-
To be honest, I did not feel the "mommy" element with Susan.
Molly is not the only option, Eleaine still exists. Also, who wants to bet we are going to meet a sassy Librarian woman soon?
-
As per Mab's reasoning for Thomas to take over the WK mantle, he loves, that's human enough.
I mean White Vampires have genuine human souls just with extra-stuff, so I guess it counts.
And part WoJ, all of Fairie has a bit of mortal life in them, some more than others. Toot has the potential to be the WK.
But true Fae would be forbidden to interact with mortals. Wizard or whampire is not.
Very true as far as his lifestyle goes, but that is why Molly would ultimately be the best partner for him, she understands where he is coming from being a wizard, herself. I don't think Murphy ever fully understood Harry, and yes, you can love someone but not understand them.
Dunno. I must say I don't think Dresden is that complicated after all.
I mean there would be consequences probably both of them prefered to ignore at least for some time.
But yeah, Harry had a dependency on her that gave me that feeling.
Dependency?
-
Molly is not the only option, Eleaine still exists.
Team Elaine forever! At least until they get back together and she betrays Harry because she makes the most sense as Kumori and is still on the Black Council even though she's not working directly with Cowl anymore.
-
I don't actually like the ship, I am only saying that it's possible, and perhaps is in JB vision. Personally, like Lara as a partner, and a second viable option is Marcone :)
-
I don't think Harry and Elaine is likely because of how seldom she's involved in the story. I've just always liked their chemistry on the page, and they have a shared history and then a somewhat parallel history.
I do like the idea of Harry marrying Lara and being forced to work with her in a very political marriage in which the marriage is treated as such. I don't think I'd like it if they developed into a loving (but less than True Love) couple. I wouldn't mind if they had some affection for one another, but not a lot.