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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Periwinkles on September 29, 2014, 08:07:12 PM

Title: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on September 29, 2014, 08:07:12 PM
(I'm not sure if this is the forum for this...)

So my friend has invited me to join his upcoming Dresden campaign after he found out I've read three of the books. He's not told me the power levels, so I'm going to go with the middle ground and assume it's 'Up to your waist'. I'm still unclear on some mechanics, though I've got it into my head that I really want to be a magic user/wizard. So here's my questions:

In your experience, what are the benefits and applications of Evocation and Thaumaturgy? Could one replace the other? Which is more useful?

What is the 'spirit' element? What sorts of spells fall under it?

How can I add extra survivability to my character? I was thinking Evocation and some sort of speed thing, like mythic speed?


And finally, I'll have to point out that I've not read all the books, so I'm not sure if this messes with the cannon or the rules...but I had this idea for a character and wanted to ask you guys for opinions/input/recommendations. One idea, was the concept of a female wizard who is, for lack of better words, frankenstein's monster. Not so much visually, but basically at some point in the past she dies and her father, who packs some serious magical mojo uses necromancy and all manner of black magic to resurrect her. Visually she's not that different from a regular human, but she came back wrong. There's no trace of the old personality, and barely any memories from before remain. This drives her father mad as he's gone and broken loads of rules for nothing, and she winds up squatting in an old church/warehouse/place after getting away. Basically I want to achieve a Wizard who believes they are an abomination, created by black magic, and as such, feels a degree of resentment towards black magic and overcomes her instincts of self-preservation to prove to herself that she's not a monster. Someone who will walk away, feel guilty and come crashing back in cursing the party for making her go soft. She could have a journal written in code, but with enough illustrations to make her feel like her origins are terrible/disgusting. Also she could be in hiding, as he is trying to undo and remake her at some point. It would


Or, if resurrection in itself isn't possible, perhaps we could have an aging/sickly black wizard, who fearing death instructs her thralls/lover/apprentice to find a young girl with magical talents, abduct her and prepare her body as a vessel. Things go awry and the result is someone who has some good knowledge of magic, but cannot remember a thing. It's unclear to the character whether she's the black wizard in a new body sans evil personality, the original owner of the body, who lacks an identity or something in the middle, a evil wizard timebomb waiting to happen.

I'm not trying to pick out any undead-related skills, but I simply want the association and self-loathing aspects as I think it'd be pretty interesting type of character to have around. Though I don't really know much; I'd love to see some character sheets from other players and stuff, just to know what other people do! So if you have a character lying around, please show me!
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on September 29, 2014, 08:43:45 PM
(I'm not sure if this is the forum for this...)
Most certainly, welcome aboard, grab a cookie.

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In your experience, what are the benefits and applications of Evocation and Thaumaturgy? Could one replace the other? Which is more useful?
Evocation is quick and dirty magic. Kind of like firing a gun, only a lot more versatile. Depending on the Elements you take (evocation grants you knowledge of 3 elements for your spells, you need to buy the rest), it can be a wide range of things, but usually it's all of the "throw and hope the best" persuasion. Throwing a fireball, setting up a wall of hardened air, instantly turning the ground into quicksand, and so on. You are limited in how much power in terms of shifts you can bring to bear with evocation, but you can do it NOW.
Thaumaturgy is usually a lot slower and takes time to prepare. It also allows you to be more nuanced and more precise with what you are doing. And it allows you to go REALLY big, if you need to be.

I like to think of the difference as throwing a rock and carrying a rock. When you throw the rock, it will go a lot faster than if you carry it. And that's good if that's what you need it to do. Carrying the rock the same distance will take longer, but you can carry it around obstacles, and you can carry it a lot further, if you want to.

Ultimately, both are very useful. Harry's tracking spell, for example, is thaumaturgy. His "Fuego!" spell is evocation. You'll have to decide for yourself, what kind of magic is more important to you. Or take both, if you can't decide. Doing Thaumaturgy can be just as fun as slugging out ball of fire.

If you need an explanation of how the magic system works, I can go into that in another post, if you like.

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What is the 'spirit' element? What sorts of spells fall under it?
Usually things connected to force, sound (which might be air to some), light, mental stuff, etc. The ultimate arbiter though is your group. If you have an idea for something that you think should be spirit, ask your group if they think that's ok, and you're good to go.

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How can I add extra survivability to my character? I was thinking Evocation and some sort of speed thing, like mythic speed?
Character's aren't usually too squishy. As a wizard, I'd advice you to put your enchanted items towards defense. A strong block that can be used reactively can really save your ass.

Mythic speed is probably out. For one, it's usually reserved for characters whose whole concept is tied to speed. And you won't have nearly enough refresh to buy a -6 refresh power in addition to evocation and/or thaumaturgy. But even lower levels aren't really necessary. You can make up for a lack of a dodging skill with spells and enchanted items.

Again, if you need an enchanted item 101, let me know.

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And finally, I'll have to point out that I've not read all the books, so I'm not sure if this messes with the cannon or the rules...but I had this idea for a character and wanted to ask you guys for opinions/input/recommendations. One idea, was the concept of a female wizard who is, for lack of better words, frankenstein's monster. Not so much visually, but basically at some point in the past she dies and her father, who packs some serious magical mojo uses necromancy and all manner of black magic to resurrect her. Visually she's not that different from a regular human, but she came back wrong. There's no trace of the old personality, and barely any memories from before remain. This drives her father mad as he's gone and broken loads of rules for nothing, and she winds up squatting in an old church/warehouse/place after getting away. Basically I want to achieve a Wizard who believes they are an abomination, created by black magic, and as such, feels a degree of resentment towards black magic and overcomes her instincts of self-preservation to prove to herself that she's not a monster. Someone who will walk away, feel guilty and come crashing back in cursing the party for making her go soft. She could have a journal written in code, but with enough illustrations to make her feel like her origins are terrible/disgusting. Also she could be in hiding, as he is trying to undo and remake her at some point. It would
Sounds like a solid base. I would be careful with making the character too emo or black, unless it fits the game you are going to play. Ambiguous characters are great, but go too dark, if the group is a lot whiter, and it's going to be a rough fit. You'll probably get all kinds of different views on this, but the only view that matters is, again, that of your group. Present the idea to them and ask them what they think. Maybe they like it, maybe they will suggest a few changes, but in the end, it's you and your group that has to be happy with the characters you play.

For what it's worth, in one of my games, there's a wizard who died and came back as a marble statue. ;)

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Or, if resurrection in itself isn't possible, perhaps we could have an aging/sickly black wizard, who fearing death instructs her thralls/lover/apprentice to find a young girl with magical talents, abduct her and prepare her body as a vessel. Things go awry and the result is someone who has some good knowledge of magic, but cannot remember a thing. It's unclear to the character whether she's the black wizard in a new body sans evil personality, the original owner of the body, who lacks an identity or something in the middle, a evil wizard timebomb waiting to happen.

I'm not trying to pick out any undead-related skills, but I simply want the association and self-loathing aspects as I think it'd be pretty interesting type of character to have around. Though I don't really know much; I'd love to see some character sheets from other players and stuff, just to know what other people do! So if you have a character lying around, please show me!
As I said above, the character mainly needs to fit in with the rest of the group. Not in a way that everyone has to be friends, but in a way that you can create a good story. If the rest of the characters would either avoid your character or slit his throat, that's not going to happen. I had an "evil family curse hellfire" character in one of my pbp games, and he sort of blew up the whole game, to the point that I had to kick him out. It kind of sucked for everyone involved.

But the idea is interesting. Maybe you could ask the group if they would like to have the first story arc centered around defusing the "timebomb wizard". It could involve getting his memories back, one way or another, and it could be a way to lead him towards a more manageable gray rather than black, at least.

And, because I post this for everyone new, the sample combat to get an overview of how things work:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,20530.0.html
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Baron Hazard on September 29, 2014, 08:44:12 PM
1. so a game usually determines a power level that each character start with, so you may want to make sure, its possible your friends game is using varied power levels. Just wanted to have that said, in case.

2. A magic user is definately possible at "Up to your waist" but you wont even manage to get the full wizard package at that level (you'll be 1 refresh short), you'd need at least chest deep, subermerged would be better so you can choose to grab some refinement or a stunt or two.

3. In my experience magic is like this: Thaumaturgy is very powerful, infinitely useful and you never have time to do it when you need it most. Evocation is powerful, less versatile but its what stops the invisible demon from eating your face when they are standing in front of you.

4. The spirit element utilizes anything that isn't one of the other 4 elements, this can be alot (and indeed magic is what the wielder believes so this can vary fro, wizard to wizard) but under it falls acts of kinetics (i.e. pure force fields, kinetic attacks (such as Forzare) and mind magic for sure.

5. At up to your waist, you don't have alot of options especially if going for the wizard package. With the wizard package i'd suggest a defensive item or two, or get ready with some sweet potions.

5a. if you free up some refresh, you certainly wouldnt have the refresh to get mythic speed (if it were even allowed), and your concept would have to justify where it came from. It seems to me like you want to avoid stress, instead of absorbing it, but reallyy our choices range from supernatural powers/refinement or stunts.

5b. Remember that it is REALLY HARD for your character to die if you don't want them to. That isnt what the game is about. Losing/conceeding a fight generally involves you running away or getting captured.

5c. I rather like the concept, though i only had time to glance over it, though it wou;d provide lots of complications in her existence and she may be destroyed if her origins are ever discovered by the Council.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on September 29, 2014, 09:05:01 PM
Well, with regards to the speed deal, it's because I'm very unfamiliar with the FATE system. I've been playing DnD mostly, and lets just say my old DM really loved his Beholders and generally making the combat impossible unless his DMNPC was fighting with us. (God I hate Shardminds thanks to that...) I guess I'm a bit used to desperately building up optimized builds to contend with that sort of thing :S

Okay, so I guess I'm picking up Evocation as my number one important skill, and Thaumaturgy as a second. I take it abilities like the Sight, Soul Gaze and Hexing technology into oblivion also require refresh? Also since we're supposed to make-up our own spells, anyone have any of their own to share? I'm a little intimidated at the prospect, caught myself trying to convert Swordmage skills from 4ed into Dresden spells. Though I'd love an explanation into the magic system, and also the stress system too. I sort of think I understood it when I re-read Fool's Moon and Dresden spent the last part of the book with that crippling mental block on his magic, I'm assuming it's an example of a major consequence from overusing magic/too much mental stress? I'm not sure.  :-[


Enchanted Item 101 please @_@


No worries though, I'm not planning on making her too black or emo. Rather, more of a Piccolo Jr as of the beginning of DBZ. Fearsome, perhaps intimidating and stand-offish, but never outright bad. Like, someone who acts like they don't care, but ultimately really comes through. Bad girl with a heart of gold, so to speak.

 I'm just trying to come up with a few things so when I do go to the session I have some rough idea what I'm doing...as it's only been three hours since I found out there was a Dresden files rpg .-.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on September 29, 2014, 09:46:27 PM
Well, with regards to the speed deal, it's because I'm very unfamiliar with the FATE system. I've been playing DnD mostly, and lets just say my old DM really loved his Beholders and generally making the combat impossible unless his DMNPC was fighting with us. (God I hate Shardminds thanks to that...) I guess I'm a bit used to desperately building up optimized builds to contend with that sort of thing :S
That's a very common story. Kind of where I come from myself. Fate is a lot less like that. If a conflict goes bad, you always have the option to concede. It means that you willingly lose the fight, but you get to dictate how that happens. So for example you lose the MacGuffin but get away with your life. The villain gets away, but he doesn't kill your friends. And so on. You need to offer a concession before dice are rolled though. Once they are in the air, the current action needs to be resolved, before you can offer a concession.

Maybe a word to the dice system first: You always roll 4DF or 4 Fate dice. A Fate dice has 2 sides with a "+", 2 sides with a "-" and 2 sides which are blank. That means on a roll, you can get anything from -4 to +4, though it's most likely to get something around 0. You add the result of the dice to the skill you are using, and that's your result. The number is often called "shifts", as in "one shift up the ladder". So if you have a skill of 3 and roll +,+,-,O your end result would be 3+1+1-1=4.

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Okay, so I guess I'm picking up Evocation as my number one important skill, and Thaumaturgy as a second. I take it abilities like the Sight, Soul Gaze and Hexing technology into oblivion also require refresh? Also since we're supposed to make-up our own spells, anyone have any of their own to share? I'm a little intimidated at the prospect, caught myself trying to convert Swordmage skills from 4ed into Dresden spells. Though I'd love an explanation into the magic system, and also the stress system too. I sort of think I understood it when I re-read Fool's Moon and Dresden spent the last part of the book with that crippling mental block on his magic, I'm assuming it's an example of a major consequence from overusing magic/too much mental stress? I'm not sure.  :-[
For magic in general, there are 3 important skills: Discipline, Conviction and Lore. For evocation, lore is a bit less important.

When you cast a spell, you decide on a number of shifts the spell is supposed to have in power. Your Conviction is important here. If the spells power is equal or less than your conviction, you take 1 shift of mental stress as casting stress when you cast a spell. Every shift above that adds 1 additional shift.
Example: Say you have conviction of 4 and want to cast a 5 shift spell. That's 2 shifts of mental stress, 1 up to 4 and 1 for the 5.
Your mental stress track with conviction 4 looks like this: OOOO
Since you take 2 shifts of mental stress for this spell, it looks like this afterwards: OXOO

Next comes controlling the spell. That involves rolling your discipline. You need to roll equal or higher than the power you announced to completely control the spell. If you do, the spell is a success, and your target must defend against what you rolled on your discipline roll, since it is simultaneously your attack roll.
If you fall short, you've got 2 options: Backlash and Fallout. In both cases, you deal with the overrunning magic. Backlash means that you take the number of shifts you didn't control as stress, either mental or physical, your choice at the time. Doing so lets the spell go off as planned. Or you release the excess energy into the air, that's called fallout. It's usually done by using the excess shifts as an additional spell that's in some way detrimental to the character.
So say you rolled a 3 on your discipline roll of the spell above, which kind of sucks. It means you are 2 shifts short of the power. You could take it as mental stress, in which case your mental stress would look like this: OXXO
That's because your second stress box is already full, so the stress rolls up. Your physical stress track is still clear at this time, so you know what to do there.

You can take specializations and focus items to increase your control (the discipline roll) or power (conviction for determining casting stress).

If the above was an attack spell, it would be a 3 shift attack (meaning the target has to roll higher than 3 to avoid it) with a weapon:5 spell (the spells power). The weapon rating gets added to the number of stress you inflict, if you hit the target. Say your target rolls a 2. That means you hit for 3-2=1 and add 5 to that for the weapon, the target takes a 6 shift hit. Since a stress track (without powers) is only 4 boxes long at maximum, the target has to take a consequence. Everyone has 3 consequences, a mild (2), moderate (4) and severe (6) one. The numbers are the amount of stress they take off the attack. You name the consequence in an appropriate way. Since we just attacked with a fireball, we could take a mild consequence of "mild burns" and take the remaining 4 shifts as stress. Once a character can't (or won't) take any more stress, they are taken out and can no longer participate in the current conflict. Which would have happened to your target, had he not taken a consequence. Since they heal very slowly, it's important to ration them for when you really need them. Sometimes it's better to cut your losses and get the hell out of a fight.



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Enchanted Item 101 please @_@
Certainly. Over all, it's not too complicated. Basically, you can store spells in them, that you don't need to pay casting stress for using.

When taking evocation, you get 2 focus item slots, you can buy additional ones with refresh (via the refinement power). 1 focus item slot can be exchanged for 2 enchanted item slots. Which are what we will work with right now. Other than evocation, enchanted items power is based off Lore. Your enchanted items can only store power equal to or less than your Lore.

So if you've go a lore of 3, any spell in an enchanted item would be power:3. You can add an additional enchanted item slot to an item to increase the power by 1, but it can't exceed double your Lore.
Say we want to create an item that acts as a shield. A coat that protects you from attacks. Since it protects you, it's a block, and since we don't want to do anything else with it, it's a 3 shift block that you can use once per session. You can add additional uses per session by adding enchanted item slots again. 1 additional enchanted item slot gives you 2 more uses per session.

An enchanted item can not hold more item slots than your Lore.

When using the item, you do so just as you would do anything else. I personally allow enchanted items with blocks to be used retroactively (so someone attacks you, you botch your defense roll, now you use your enchanted item), but others might not like it. Again, something to ask your GM.

Enchanted items with attack spells stored are basically weapons that you can use with a predetermined skill. As long as you have a good justification for it, that can be pretty much any skill. You can simply default to discipline, of course. When using an item like that, you roll your skill as an attack roll, but everything concerning the spell, like casting stress and control, is already dealt with by the item.

And lastly, if you have no more uses per session left for an item, you can spend one shift of mental stress to use it again. It can be a neat little trick, because enchanted items are quite save to use, since they can't cause backlash.

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No worries though, I'm not planning on making her too black or emo. Rather, more of a Piccolo Jr as of the beginning of DBZ. Fearsome, perhaps intimidating and stand-offish, but never outright bad. Like, someone who acts like they don't care, but ultimately really comes through. Bad girl with a heart of gold, so to speak.

 I'm just trying to come up with a few things so when I do go to the session I have some rough idea what I'm doing...as it's only been three hours since I found out there was a Dresden files rpg .-.
Just wanted to mention it, like I said, I've seen what the wrong kind of character can do to a game.

I hope I didn't overwhelm you. The magic system is a bit complicated. If something is unclear, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Amelia Crane on September 30, 2014, 12:06:44 AM
One idea, was the concept of a female wizard who is, for lack of better words, frankenstein's monster. Not so much visually, but basically at some point in the past she dies and her father, who packs some serious magical mojo uses necromancy and all manner of black magic to resurrect her. Visually she's not that different from a regular human, but she came back wrong. There's no trace of the old personality, and barely any memories from before remain. This drives her father mad as he's gone and broken loads of rules for nothing, and she winds up squatting in an old church/warehouse/place after getting away. Basically I want to achieve a Wizard who believes they are an abomination, created by black magic, and as such, feels a degree of resentment towards black magic and overcomes her instincts of self-preservation to prove to herself that she's not a monster. Someone who will walk away, feel guilty and come crashing back in cursing the party for making her go soft. She could have a journal written in code, but with enough illustrations to make her feel like her origins are terrible/disgusting. Also she could be in hiding, as he is trying to undo and remake her at some point. It would

Or, if resurrection in itself isn't possible, perhaps we could have an aging/sickly black wizard, who fearing death instructs her thralls/lover/apprentice to find a young girl with magical talents, abduct her and prepare her body as a vessel. Things go awry and the result is someone who has some good knowledge of magic, but cannot remember a thing. It's unclear to the character whether she's the black wizard in a new body sans evil personality, the original owner of the body, who lacks an identity or something in the middle, a evil wizard timebomb waiting to happen.

If you want to make either of these characters I would recommend reading book 7, Dead Beat.  It may spoil bits of the books in-between, but on the upside, Dead Beat is perhaps the best book of the series.

Well, with regards to the speed deal, it's because I'm very unfamiliar with the FATE system. I've been playing DnD mostly, and lets just say my old DM really loved his Beholders and generally making the combat impossible unless his DMNPC was fighting with us. (God I hate Shardminds thanks to that...) I guess I'm a bit used to desperately building up optimized builds to contend with that sort of thing :S

If the same guy is running I'm not sure he'll be very successful at running Dresden Files.  The system is really designed to help the players and game master tell a good story.  It isn't really a good system for optimizing.  And it's really a system that works best if the GM works with players and not against them.

Okay, so I guess I'm picking up Evocation as my number one important skill, and Thaumaturgy as a second. I take it abilities like the Sight, Soul Gaze and Hexing technology into oblivion also require refresh?

Not quite.  Evocation costs -3 refresh and Thaumaturgy costs -3 refresh.  If you need to skim down a few refresh points, there's a limited version of each, Channeling for -2 (which gives you only 1 element and no bonus) and Ritual (which lets you cast only some ritual spells).  The Sight and Soulgaze are each -1 refresh powers, but there is a note that says if you already have the Sight then Soulgaze is free.  Hexing, on the other hand comes for free.  Actually less than free because whenever your high concept gets compelled to cause hexing you get a fate point.

Also since we're supposed to make-up our own spells, anyone have any of their own to share? I'm a little intimidated at the prospect, caught myself trying to convert Swordmage skills from 4ed into Dresden spells.

Our resource boards might have something useful. (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22421.0.html)  And if you don't find what you're looking for there, we had this thread recently that had people making up descriptions of very odd spells (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42872.0.html).

Though I'd love an explanation into the magic system, and also the stress system too. I sort of think I understood it when I re-read Fool's Moon and Dresden spent the last part of the book with that crippling mental block on his magic, I'm assuming it's an example of a major consequence from overusing magic/too much mental stress? I'm not sure.  :-[

Enchanted Item 101 please @_@

I think the simplest the magic system can be described is with these game aids from Evil Hat for Thaumaturgy (http://www.evilhat.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/DFRPG-Spellcasting.102-Thaumaturgy.pdf) and Evocation (http://www.evilhat.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/DFRPG-Spellcasting.101-Evocation.pdf)

The stress system is a very different way of thinking about things than hit points.  But your thinking of that magical burnout in Fool Moon as a consequence is showing some good understanding of it.

I think I'll let Haru answer the enchanted item one for you since he offered.  It takes some explanation.  Let me just give you the references for them.  Focus items are on Your Story page 278-9 and enchanted items are on Your Story page 279-80.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: g33k on September 30, 2014, 06:32:26 AM
Well, with regards to the speed deal, it's because I'm very unfamiliar with the FATE system. I've been playing DnD mostly ...

Fate is a VERY different sort of thing than D&D (as rpg's go).

D&D, and most other "traditional" RPG's, have game-mechanics that are oriented towards being a sort of "pseudo-physics" that describe the game-world -- different weapons have different damages, encumbrance, etc (and if missle-weapons, different ranges, reload-rates, etc).  Piercing damage, slashing damage, etc.  Poisons do CON damage, DEX damage, other STAT damage, or paralyze, or kill, etc.  Movement-rates (and different movement-rates for ground/air/swim/burrow) can really matter.  Tactical and strategic combat is a Thing:  flanking, higher ground, cover, etc -- all derived from the mechanistic almost-real-world (with High Fantasy trappings) of military-simulation wargames (that was the birthplace of D&D (and by extension, of so many early RPG's)).

Fate, as some other games do, has intentionally abandoned most of that "simulate-the-world" tropes.  The game intentionally does NOT have good rules to simulate a game-world, and generally is a poor engine if you want an RPG that does that.  Instead, Fate uses the tropes of narrative & character; the tropes of story (novel, movie, TV, etc) collaborative-improv.  The GM isn't there to be "evil GM, I'm gonna screw the players."  Instead, the GM *AND* the players are presumed to be JOINTLY cooperating in making an interesting story, in providing challenges that will be fun-for-players.

For example:

In D&D, the GM might say something like, "So, the infamous Skarlet Skorpion gang has finally caught up to you after you thought you lost them 3 dungeons back..." and this is just a fact; now you have to fight them, or run away, or what-have you.

In Fate, the GM might instead say, "So, you have this Aspect 'I seduced the daughter of the Skarlet Skorpion Boss' -- I think it'd be interesting if they found you right about... NOW."  And the GM offers a Fate Point for the complication that ensues (called a Compel).  The player is free to say, 'Oh, yeah!  Sounds like fun!' and take that Fate Point and THEN the arrival of the gang is a fact to deal with; but the player is also free to say, 'nah... I'm really into the story we're having NOW, without those guys showing up,' and buy out of the Compel... and then there's no crimson arachnids with extra K's!  It's all about the narrative and about fun stories...

  ... and lets just say my old DM really loved his Beholders and generally making the combat impossible unless his DMNPC was fighting with us. (God I hate Shardminds thanks to that...) I guess I'm a bit used to desperately building up optimized builds to contend with that sort of thing :S

As others have noted (and I suggest above) the adversarial-GM model is less-likely to work well in Fate.  I'd be particularly wary about the GM "making the combat impossible unless his DMNPC was fighting with us."

Have you (or other players) ever questioned the GM about that point?  To be brutally frank, I'd have talked to the GM, and probably wouldn't have stayed in that group for more than 1-2 more combats after that, if the problem persisted...


Okay, so I guess I'm picking up Evocation as my number one important skill, and Thaumaturgy as a second. I take it abilities like the Sight, Soul Gaze and Hexing technology into oblivion also require refresh?

Once again, this is going to be a rather different thing that you're expecting from the D&Dverse... for example, "Might"  is a Fate "skill" but almost an exact match for the D&D stat of "Strength;" it buys up like any other skill!  But Evocation and Thaumaturgy aren't "Skills" at all -- they cost Refresh to buy, but then need no more points to improve (instead you buy extra "Refinements" to improve them in various ways).  "Resources" is another Fate "skill," and while it may LOOK like "money" it's NOT "gold pieces" -- it's mostly your influence & ability to have the stuff-money-can-buy available at need... Having lots of gold isn't really interesting, there's no "story" there.  Needing to protect the gold may lead to stories, and always having top-notch "stuff" makes for ONE sort of character, but always needing to make-do with barely-working / held-together-with-baling-wire-and-prayer "stuff" makes for ANOTHER sort of character... depending on your Resources skill!

BUT... it's a skill, bought as a skill (and it's NOT "gold pieces"!) so finding a big pile o' gold in-game won't improve your "Resources" skill!

If you've found a pile o' gold in a Fate game, that's the GM signalling you, "we are now about to have some story about your characters unexpectedly coming into possession of a Big Pile of Gold."  Maybe it's a dragon-hoard... but the thief didn't slay the dragon before stealing it (and now the dragon is coming for the gold with a negotiate-nothing / take-no-prisoners attitude); maybe it's faerie-gold... and you're now obligated to Summer or Winter to conduct some sort of "chore" for them.  Whatever... it's a narrative device, with in-character consequences... it's NOT generic wealth!

Because Fate is about the narrative, and the characters interacting in interesting story ways... NOT about simulating the game-world!


- Steve, the g33k
 
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: solbergb on September 30, 2014, 01:30:46 PM
Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it.

Don't start your Fate/DFRPG experience with a wizard.  Yes, it's powerful but if you don't have system mastery your vast range of options can grind things to a halt, plus it can be oddly fragile if you don't know how to manage your resources of both mental stress to power your spells and physical stress to soak damage+properly managing consequences.

Also you'll be blindsided by how aspect compels work, most likely.   Think of it as playing a 3.5 D&D Druid summoner with dire tiger animal companion, starting it at level 9 and handing it to a first-time player, along with a pile of source-books giving him a few score spells to decide to put in his slots, and a couple hundred critters he can summon, but with non-standard statblocks because he also has augment summoning.  It isn't likely to be the best intro to D&D for the player, or for the party.

Plus for all their power, a wizard really isn't much better than anybody else at getting things "done" in-game.  They just have a wider variety of flashy tools in any given situation.  The mortal with maxed diplomacy and resource type skills will often be better - just think about how Marcone seems to always have the upper hand over Dresden and it's generally Dresden going to Marcone for help, not the other way around - especially after the first couple of books when Marcone gets clued into the supernatural world and has had time to bring his resources to bear on the problem.  Still, sometimes even Marcone gets compelled by his prior choices and needs rescue.  Nobody wins them all in Fate.

The character you described would probably work better as just somebody with supernatural powers and skills.  That plus the aspects (which actually are a very large part of your character's "power" - you nave narrative power in this game system, which is as important or more important than objective physical power) are more than enough to learn the first time out.

For a frankenstein type character, you can actually take the -1 refresh "dead" power, giving you an animated corpse instead of a body, just to begin with.  You would have refresh to be tough, fast, strong and being life-challenged without actually being a vampire or something would cause you plenty of problems, which will likely translate into fate points that you can use to power aspects.

Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on September 30, 2014, 02:18:08 PM

As others have noted (and I suggest above) the adversarial-GM model is less-likely to work well in Fate.  I'd be particularly wary about the GM "making the combat impossible unless his DMNPC was fighting with us."

Have you (or other players) ever questioned the GM about that point?  To be brutally frank, I'd have talked to the GM, and probably wouldn't have stayed in that group for more than 1-2 more combats after that, if the problem persisted...
- Steve, the g33k

Yeah, he's the president of my uni's Tabletop gaming society, though only because he was best friends with the previous prez and got handed the position, no election or anything after he graduated. He wasn't particularly likeable, especially behind his DM screen. Whenever he rolled an attack against us he'd pick up the dice and roll again, sometimes even twice in a row until he could hit us (he once rolled four times in a row to hit my Con-based defensive Genasi swordmage) and would shoe-horn us tons. Also force reactions, like forcing a stout dwarven fighter to urinate herself from fear at the presence of this character he made and he messed with backstories loads. After my Genasi got auto-raped and killed by a band of orcs that ambushed her (it just happened out of the blue right after an encounter I'd survived solely due to lucky crits) I made a Drow/Eladrin hybrid character whose backstory he changed at least three times because his idea was cooler than mine...total bad times.

Basically the dresden files group are all people that quit because of that DM. Turns out my friend has lots of experience DMing so yeah.


I'm reading through all the stuff you guys have written me, and I'm getting super hyped now! My GM isn't too pleased with my character idea though, he says that the bodysnatcher concept would be hard to integrate into the game and the frankenstein thing is impossible, so there's that. I just text him another concept I came up with in a lecture and wanted to run it by you guys to see what you all thought.

Normal teenager/university student, huge fan of high fantasy books, movies and so on. Someone who can quote Tolkien and make Skyrim references. The kind of character that would scream 'fus roh dah' instead of 'fuego' because s/he just can. The kind that goes 'I knew it! Real vampires aren't anything like twilight vampires! This is awes-...shit this is bad, very, very bad...'. A sort of whimsical character that gets real excited about the supernatural before freaking out because shit just got real. Basically someone who isn't ordinarily involved, but involves themselves because they've grown up reading Terry Pratchett. The one everyone yells at to go home and live a normal life.

Now the character is sort of developed, I have an idea what kind of person they would be, however I'm not sure how a mundane would have made contact with the supernatural, let alone learn magic. One idea was that they notice some weird fliers and get lured into this warehouse where a dragon-worshipping cult is trying to sacrifice people to a dragon (if dragons exist in dresdenverse) in exchange for knowledge or something. Dragon gets pissed off, decides the cultists look yummy, eats them, and somehow or another doesn't mind the character enough to set them on the right path to becoming a wizard. Or perhaps some crazy homeless old bum teaches her evocation in exchange for food. Or some old grimoire found in a dusty old antique shop? I don't know @___@

Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on September 30, 2014, 03:20:21 PM
Normal teenager/university student, huge fan of high fantasy books, movies and so on. Someone who can quote Tolkien and make Skyrim references. The kind of character that would scream 'fus roh dah' instead of 'fuego' because s/he just can. The kind that goes 'I knew it! Real vampires aren't anything like twilight vampires! This is awes-...shit this is bad, very, very bad...'. A sort of whimsical character that gets real excited about the supernatural before freaking out because shit just got real. Basically someone who isn't ordinarily involved, but involves themselves because they've grown up reading Terry Pratchett. The one everyone yells at to go home and live a normal life.
That sounds far better, especially since you don't know the world too well yourself, you can discover it alongside your character.

Quote
Now the character is sort of developed, I have an idea what kind of person they would be, however I'm not sure how a mundane would have made contact with the supernatural, let alone learn magic. One idea was that they notice some weird fliers and get lured into this warehouse where a dragon-worshipping cult is trying to sacrifice people to a dragon (if dragons exist in dresdenverse) in exchange for knowledge or something. Dragon gets pissed off, decides the cultists look yummy, eats them, and somehow or another doesn't mind the character enough to set them on the right path to becoming a wizard. Or perhaps some crazy homeless old bum teaches her evocation in exchange for food. Or some old grimoire found in a dusty old antique shop? I don't know @___@
With all your planning, keep in mind that during character creation things can change a lot. It helps to see what kind of ideas the other players have, and go around to see how you can combine ideas for the best effect. That doesn't mean that I want to keep you from planning, but keep it loose enough to wiggle some additional ideas in there when you form the group.

That being said, one pretty easy way to get in touch with the supernatural would be to be attacked and rescued. Your character could have stumbled upon something. A vampire feeding on someone behind the library, where your character was too late to do anything, though he wouldn't even have been able to do anything. He decides to do some research and track down the vamp, still thinking this is kind of awesome, and he finds the lair, but of course he doesn't have a chance against the vamp. Luckily, one or more of the other characters had also been tracking the vampire and arrive only moments later and rescue you. Afterwards, they take you under their wing.

Or it could be something smaller, depending on how your group wants to take it. Maybe you decide on playing a small campus coven, so nobody would be all that powerful singlehandedly, but together you might be able to pull off some great rituals. Or you go for a campus shapeshifter group. Or just a group of individual powers getting together to fight the dark in their neck of the woods. All that can change your character to one degree or another.

You could also look into channeling, which is evocation's little sister. It can be pretty much exactly what evocation does, but limited to one element (like fire or water) or theme (like chloromancy, biomancy, ectomancy, etc). And it costs a bit less.

Or don't take any powers at all and slowly grow into it. Being a pure mortal has its advantages as well, and you can get pretty far with stunts, especially in the lower refresh games.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on September 30, 2014, 03:49:16 PM
That sounds far better, especially since you don't know the world too well yourself, you can discover it alongside your character.
With all your planning, keep in mind that during character creation things can change a lot. It helps to see what kind of ideas the other players have, and go around to see how you can combine ideas for the best effect. That doesn't mean that I want to keep you from planning, but keep it loose enough to wiggle some additional ideas in there when you form the group.

Yeah, I feel this one would be easier to more consistently portray because of how easy it would be to relate to that kind of character. From my limited experience roleplaying the biggest problem is consistency; I remember one player in DnD could never settle on an accent for his orc, who erratically switched from just leader to bloodthirsty brute or a wisecracking comedian. It really broke the spell so to speak. Though yeah, I'm going to come in with a couple of general ideas and a skill outline, simply because I'm the only newbie to fate based games and I don't want to hold things up unnecessarily. Even came up with a couple of aspects for the character:

The Movies Taught Me Everything I Know
Invoke: When she is attempting to uncover some kind of information, mundane or occult.
Compel: To cause her to come up with and/or believe incorrect information on a subject.

Aspect: Fish amongst Sharks
Invoke: To seem unimportant or not threatening to an enemy; Disguises; Defense rolls; Helping someone who is the underdog
Compel: Help the Underdog; Get taken advantage of; Get targeted as weak or helpless, not get taken seriously

and stuff like 'Nerd in Shining armour', 'Power of positive thinking', 'Brave...when I need to be' and so on. Coming up with this stuff and spells in itself is pretty fun.

Quote
That being said, one pretty easy way to get in touch with the supernatural would be to be attacked and rescued. Your character could have stumbled upon something. A vampire feeding on someone behind the library, where your character was too late to do anything, though he wouldn't even have been able to do anything. He decides to do some research and track down the vamp, still thinking this is kind of awesome, and he finds the lair, but of course he doesn't have a chance against the vamp. Luckily, one or more of the other characters had also been tracking the vampire and arrive only moments later and rescue you. Afterwards, they take you under their wing.

Or it could be something smaller, depending on how your group wants to take it. Maybe you decide on playing a small campus coven, so nobody would be all that powerful singlehandedly, but together you might be able to pull off some great rituals. Or you go for a campus shapeshifter group. Or just a group of individual powers getting together to fight the dark in their neck of the woods. All that can change your character to one degree or another.

This sounds funky! Say, you know Wardens, like that dude who was going to Damocles' Harry? Are they sort of like Wizard Sherriffs? Because one of those could easily run into my character and take her under his/her wing. Well, be practically forced into it as my character wouldn't take no for an answer and start stalking/pestering until they agreed to teach her magic. Sorry, I'm just not far enough into the book to know exactly how one gains a mentor @_@

Quote
You could also look into channeling, which is evocation's little sister. It can be pretty much exactly what evocation does, but limited to one element (like fire or water) or theme (like chloromancy, biomancy, ectomancy, etc). And it costs a bit less.

Or don't take any powers at all and slowly grow into it. Being a pure mortal has its advantages as well, and you can get pretty far with stunts, especially in the lower refresh games.

I was going to look into Evo+Ritual, which seems to be Thaumaturgy's little sister, though I'm open to the idea of Channeling. I'd probably pick spirit and go for kinetic punches, forcefields and illusion type things. What sort of stunts would you say are most useful?
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 30, 2014, 04:24:29 PM
Wow, your old GM sounds unbelievably awful. I'm surprised that he even got through one session without the players leaving.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on September 30, 2014, 04:48:17 PM
Yeah, I feel this one would be easier to more consistently portray because of how easy it would be to relate to that kind of character. From my limited experience roleplaying the biggest problem is consistency; I remember one player in DnD could never settle on an accent for his orc, who erratically switched from just leader to bloodthirsty brute or a wisecracking comedian. It really broke the spell so to speak. Though yeah, I'm going to come in with a couple of general ideas and a skill outline, simply because I'm the only newbie to fate based games and I don't want to hold things up unnecessarily. Even came up with a couple of aspects for the character:

The Movies Taught Me Everything I Know
Invoke: When she is attempting to uncover some kind of information, mundane or occult.
Compel: To cause her to come up with and/or believe incorrect information on a subject.

Aspect: Fish amongst Sharks
Invoke: To seem unimportant or not threatening to an enemy; Disguises; Defense rolls; Helping someone who is the underdog
Compel: Help the Underdog; Get taken advantage of; Get targeted as weak or helpless, not get taken seriously

and stuff like 'Nerd in Shining armour', 'Power of positive thinking', 'Brave...when I need to be' and so on. Coming up with this stuff and spells in itself is pretty fun.
Yes, it is. :)
Looks good so far. A player of mine got "a minnow among sharks" as one of his aspects, that's making me smile right now. Make sure the aspects mean something. "Nerd in shining armor" could refer to your character being part of a medieval sword fighting club, for example.

If the rest of the group is more experienced, I'm sure they'll help you out, too. Are they already playing, or are you all going to be building city and characters when you join? If they are already playing, you might want to ask the GM about the other characters, and how yours might fit in.

Quote
This sounds funky! Say, you know Wardens, like that dude who was going to Damocles' Harry? Are they sort of like Wizard Sherriffs? Because one of those could easily run into my character and take her under his/her wing. Well, be practically forced into it as my character wouldn't take no for an answer and start stalking/pestering until they agreed to teach her magic. Sorry, I'm just not far enough into the book to know exactly how one gains a mentor @_@
Well, you find a wizard who is willing to take you on as an apprentice. That can involve asking nicely, blackmail, calling in a debt, family obligation, and so on. You could also look for a supernatural entity to teach you, though that can have all kind of complications beyond just an apprentices duties, so I suggest sticking with a mortal for now.

Wardens are the police, task force, enforcers, soldiers and all out heavy hitters of the White Council. They probably do take on apprentices on occasion, but their duties probably don't leave them much time to do some actual teaching. Of course an absent mentor kind of has a "sorcerers apprentice" ring to it, where he gives you some stuff to learn while he is gone, and that goes haywire. I would think the warden would need to be personally invested in your character for a reason that goes beyond reason, or he would probably rather stick you with another wizard. Maybe the warden is related to your character, even though you don't know it. He's your uncle or great uncle or something, or maybe even the father your character never knew, and he is afraid to open up, so you won't inherit his enemies in and outside the Council, but at the same time, he is watching you closely and gets involved as best he can.

Quote
I was going to look into Evo+Ritual, which seems to be Thaumaturgy's little sister, though I'm open to the idea of Channeling. I'd probably pick spirit and go for kinetic punches, forcefields and illusion type things. What sort of stunts would you say are most useful?
If you take ritual, I suggest going for something thematic. You can do most things you can do with thaumaturgy, even though you might have to get a bit creative. If you lock yourself into one type of thaumaturgy (like divination), it becomes a lot harder to be versatile with it.

On the topic of stunts, the answer is: depends. :D
You hear that a lot, but it's true. It all depends on who your character is and what he's good at. You could take a stunt for the "knowing movies" bit, allowing you to add +2 when rolling scholarship to remember facts about monsters you've seen in movies. There are no stunts for magic, by the way. That's done with the "refinement" power.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on September 30, 2014, 07:39:12 PM
Yes, it is. :)
Looks good so far. A player of mine got "a minnow among sharks" as one of his aspects, that's making me smile right now. Make sure the aspects mean something. "Nerd in shining armor" could refer to your character being part of a medieval sword fighting club, for example.

If the rest of the group is more experienced, I'm sure they'll help you out, too. Are they already playing, or are you all going to be building city and characters when you join? If they are already playing, you might want to ask the GM about the other characters, and how yours might fit in.
Well, you find a wizard who is willing to take you on as an apprentice. That can involve asking nicely, blackmail, calling in a debt, family obligation, and so on. You could also look for a supernatural entity to teach you, though that can have all kind of complications beyond just an apprentices duties, so I suggest sticking with a mortal for now.

Wardens are the police, task force, enforcers, soldiers and all out heavy hitters of the White Council. They probably do take on apprentices on occasion, but their duties probably don't leave them much time to do some actual teaching. Of course an absent mentor kind of has a "sorcerers apprentice" ring to it, where he gives you some stuff to learn while he is gone, and that goes haywire. I would think the warden would need to be personally invested in your character for a reason that goes beyond reason, or he would probably rather stick you with another wizard. Maybe the warden is related to your character, even though you don't know it. He's your uncle or great uncle or something, or maybe even the father your character never knew, and he is afraid to open up, so you won't inherit his enemies in and outside the Council, but at the same time, he is watching you closely and gets involved as best he can.
If you take ritual, I suggest going for something thematic. You can do most things you can do with thaumaturgy, even though you might have to get a bit creative. If you lock yourself into one type of thaumaturgy (like divination), it becomes a lot harder to be versatile with it.

On the topic of stunts, the answer is: depends. :D
You hear that a lot, but it's true. It all depends on who your character is and what he's good at. You could take a stunt for the "knowing movies" bit, allowing you to add +2 when rolling scholarship to remember facts about monsters you've seen in movies. There are no stunts for magic, by the way. That's done with the "refinement" power.

I love that idea! I'm definitely going with the idea of the absentee warden father! It could even be her trouble, "Daddy's little girl" or something. That there are people in the know, and who would love to use her as leverage against her father.

What exactly is refinement? How much refresh does it cost?
I had the idea that my character would have been bullied as a kid, so therefore knows how to handle herself in conflicts. Specifically, she's no stranger to people taking a swing at her, trying to trip her and so forth. So she'd have pretty good self-preservation instincts? Or maybe self-taught parkour?
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on September 30, 2014, 08:28:43 PM
Wow, your old GM sounds unbelievably awful. I'm surprised that he even got through one session without the players leaving.

We started the first session with a huge group of 20 people, the plot point was that we'd all received summons from this warlord type character. Someone you just cannot refuse and holds a lot of influence. Within five minutes, one character was forced to piss herself, two frothed at the mouth and fainted, and another got made an example of by...literally getting skullfucked. The group halved, and then dwindled to 4 players, now it's the DM and his two buddies who only play because they're flatmates and often cancel sessions by pretending to be busy and making other plans :/
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on September 30, 2014, 08:37:24 PM
Parkour!

Glad you like it. :)

Refinement is a power that costs 1 refresh. Evocation and Thaumaturgy cost 3 each, Channeling and Ritual 2 each. So depending on the powerlevel, you might not have to worry about it.
Oh, the sight costs 1 refresh, by the way, I seem to remember to have forgotten that above. Soulgazing is free if you have the sight, but it costs 1 refresh if you take it without the sight.

You can take refinement as often as you can afford, and each time you can buy different things from this list:

- 1 new spellcasting element
- 2 focus item slots
- 2 points of specialization

The new element is pretty straight forward, If you have evocation, you get 3 elements of the typical 5. If you take this option, you get one more.

Focus item slots and specializations are kind of sort of for the same thing, but they work a bit different. I already covered that you can exchange focus item slots for enchanted item slots 1:2.

Let's start with specializations. You can look at specializations as "magic skills". They can increase either your power or control for evocation, or your complexity and control for thaumaturgy. (There's also an option for magic items, but that's a step towards rocket science at the moment. ;) ) You also have to attach an element (for evo) or a theme (for thaum). So you can specialize in water control or fire power for example. Your level of power to your spell gets added to your conviction when you determine casting stress. Your level of control is added to your discipline roll. The Specializations also have to follow the column system.
Example:
+3 Water power
+2 Fire control, Earth power
+1 Fire power, Water control

This would be a valid specialization set and would cost you 3+2+2+1+1=9 points of specialization. If your conviction and discipline is 4 each, and you cast a water spell, your conviction would count as 4+3=7 and your discipline would count as 4+1=5 for a water spell.

Focus items get an additional divide: offensive or defensive. Offensive is anything that targets an enemy, defensive is anything that targets yourself or an ally. There are edge cases when it comes to targeting the environment, but you'll have to decide on that case by case, if it is meant more offensive or defensive. But on the other hand, focus items don't have to adhere to the column. The only limit is that focus items can't have more focus item slots on them than your lore.
Example:
Blasting Rod: (+2 offensive fire power)

Any time you cast a fire spell at an enemy using this focus item, you get to add +2 to your conviction, in addition to any specialization that applies. You can only ever use 1 focus item per stat you are using. So if you had another item with +1 offensive fire power, you can not add that to the blasting rod above, but you could use an item that gives you + offensive fire control.

You get 1 point of specialization and 2 focus item slots with each evocation and thaumaturgy. Channeling and Ritual only provide the 2 focus item slots each.

We started the first session with a huge group of 20 people, the plot point was that we'd all received summons from this warlord type character. Someone you just cannot refuse and holds a lot of influence. Within five minutes, one character was forced to piss herself, two frothed at the mouth and fainted, and another got made an example of by...literally getting skullfucked. The group halved, and then dwindled to 4 players, now it's the DM and his two buddies who only play because they're flatmates and often cancel sessions by pretending to be busy and making other plans :/
Wow, that's just... wow.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: PirateJack on October 01, 2014, 06:57:07 PM
We started the first session with a huge group of 20 people, the plot point was that we'd all received summons from this warlord type character. Someone you just cannot refuse and holds a lot of influence. Within five minutes, one character was forced to piss herself, two frothed at the mouth and fainted, and another got made an example of by...literally getting skullfucked. The group halved, and then dwindled to 4 players, now it's the DM and his two buddies who only play because they're flatmates and often cancel sessions by pretending to be busy and making other plans :/

http://gunshowcomic.com/471 (http://gunshowcomic.com/471)

So this just about sums him up? :D
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 02, 2014, 01:39:34 AM
Someone needs to have a talk with that guy. A very serious talk.

I had the idea that my character would have been bullied as a kid, so therefore knows how to handle herself in conflicts. Specifically, she's no stranger to people taking a swing at her, trying to trip her and so forth. So she'd have pretty good self-preservation instincts? Or maybe self-taught parkour?

Sure, why not? Most bullying wouldn't help her combat skills much, but maybe she went to the kind of school where you've gotta get into a fistfight every so often or people will look down on you.

Regardless, Average to Good Fists/Athletics/Endurance ought to cover that pretty well.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on October 03, 2014, 04:58:57 PM
Had the meeting yesterday, and we created the world and some stuff for my character. We talked about our characters first and then went into the city, and then went back, so yeah. Really thrilled.

Immersion level is chest-deep and my character has taken Evocation, Sight, Soulgaze, -1 parkour and -1 refinement leaving her with 2 refresh. Our city is Venice, which everyone joked made my character into a magic Ezio :P I'm picking Spirit, Water (for obvious reasons) and another element I'm unsure of, as my GM doesn't particularly like the way earth can be applied, I can't think of anything air can do that spirit can't and fire...well, it's fire I guess. I believe I need an attacking spell, movement spell and one more as rote spells, since I'm not planning on having lore any higher than 3. Discipline and Conviction will be top stats, followed by whatever makes you quick on your feet.

The backstory is that her mother was a retired model, and deciding to relieve her glory days, so to speak, responded to an ad that looked for beautiful women for 'art'. Unfortunately that art was the art of black magic and she found herself in a lot of trouble. Fortunately for her and the other ladies the man responsible was taken down by a warden, Alberich von Seckendorf. She becomes smitten with the man who saves the day, and has an affair, which results in my character being born. Now, her mother isn't that honest or nice a person, so she just pretends the child is her husbands. The husband is a curator at the museum of natural history of Venice, and is a pretty nice guy, loves his 'daughter' a lot. My character is a pretty big daddy's girl and is heavily encouraged by her father to seek out knowledge and question things from an early age. Now, Alberich is a pretty lonely man, and even though he's practically dedicated his life to being a warden, to some degree he wanted to have a family. But he's got a lot of enemies because of his ways, so he doesn't approach his daughter, instead opting to send her books about his side of the world. Her mother is the one who gives them to her, and so she develops a huge fascination towards the supernatural, so to speak. Doesn't help that her father is a bit of a nerd, and so my char grows up reading fantasy novels, watching star trek and things like that. As she gets older, she starts getting interested in conspiracy theories and urban exploration, so starts climbing out her window at night and roaming the streets, hoping to run into something, anything.

When she's 14, she does run into something. Namely, Fomor servitors that were pulling people into the canals, in order to increase their numbers for unspecified purposes. At first this terrifies her, but she's also incredibly excited by the experience and goes out again, this time equipped with her mother's taser, a home-made molotov cocktail and a bunch of stockings filled with canned sardines as some sort of make-shift morning star weapon. She's basically jumping at the chance to become a hero like in her books and games, and really doesn't think things through. Her molotov cocktail impotently breaks on the floor next to a servitor, and the taser really just pisses him off. All hope is lost, if it weren't for Alberich, who saves her with his magic and skill. She becomes enamoured with his powers and pesters and stalks him until he reluctantly (but not really) agrees to take her on as his apprentice. Fast forward to recent years, she's trained under him for five years and has absolutely no talent in thaumaturgy, but rather great at evocation. She's getting antsy again, and starts demanding Alberich take her with him on jobs and so on. He naturally refuses so she steals some of his notes on a man he suspects to be a necromancer and goes out to confront him. Things go pretty damn wrong for her, and she gets saved by him again.

And well, that's it so far. I'm not sure what aspects to give her, though I think her trouble should probably be 'Enemies in high places' or something, as her fathers enemies may or may not have figured out their relationship. I know I want to give her an aspect or something to do with her impatience, like perhaps that she's bad at listening to things regarding the mundane? Not sure, what do you guys think?

I'm also trying for a real normal name for her, so far the first names I thought of were Claire, Lucy, Alice and Evelynn, surnames were White, Hawthorn, Young, Summers and West. Considering going for italian names too perhaps.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on October 03, 2014, 06:14:25 PM
Sounds like you had a lot of fun. :)

I'm picking Spirit, Water (for obvious reasons) and another element I'm unsure of, as my GM doesn't particularly like the way earth can be applied, I can't think of anything air can do that spirit can't and fire...well, it's fire I guess. I believe I need an attacking spell, movement spell and one more as rote spells, since I'm not planning on having lore any higher than 3. Discipline and Conviction will be top stats, followed by whatever makes you quick on your feet.
Quick on your feet would be athletics.

You don't really "need" any rote spell, though it does help, of course, if you are well rounded. I personally prefer blocks and maneuvers for rotes, as you usually try to invoke a few aspects on an attack spell, anyway, so the control part is covered by default.

Not sure what your GMs problem with earth is. Maybe you can get him to give you the way he would accept earth and you just take that. Air has a lot to do with speed and movement. Since you want to go high with athletics anyway, maybe you can use that to your advantage. Maybe even use it to justify taking a speed power when you get more power.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on October 03, 2014, 06:34:08 PM
Sounds like you had a lot of fun. :)
Quick on your feet would be athletics.

You don't really "need" any rote spell, though it does help, of course, if you are well rounded. I personally prefer blocks and maneuvers for rotes, as you usually try to invoke a few aspects on an attack spell, anyway, so the control part is covered by default.

Not sure what your GMs problem with earth is. Maybe you can get him to give you the way he would accept earth and you just take that. Air has a lot to do with speed and movement. Since you want to go high with athletics anyway, maybe you can use that to your advantage. Maybe even use it to justify taking a speed power when you get more power.

Basically he doesn't like the idea of using magnetism to manipulate locks or knock weapons into people, doesn't like the idea of sticky flooring or ground turned to mud, doesn't like earth spikes raising up, doesn't like earthern lightning and especially despises gravity and stuff. I believe its because he feels it would be too 'broken' and overly powerful. He's also imposing limits as to what water magic can do, as it would be quite broken for my character to do too much, in Venice of all places.

Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on October 03, 2014, 06:47:50 PM
Well, as soon as you can use force type spells with spirit, that becomes kind of moot. So you won't use magnetism to disarm someone, but pure force. You don't use magnetism but force to manipulate a lock, and so forth. Most of the time, it's just another way to phrase things.

Though... what does he allow with earth? Doesn't seem like there's much left.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 03, 2014, 07:31:55 PM
I think your GM is a bit off-base.

When it comes to evocation, spell effects are mostly the same no matter what element you're using. A weapon 5 attack is a weapon 5 attack, whether it's crushing gravity or a bullet of compressed air. An 8-shift block is an 8-shift block, whether it's a water wall or a spacial manipulation field.

Elements can satisfy different Catches and create different Aspects, but Aspects and Catches are mostly under the GM's control anyway.

So I don't see why he's worrying about earth or water being overpowered.

Now, if he was worried about spirit being overpowered I could see where he's coming from. It actually has special effects that other elements simply don't have.

PS: There isn't really such a thing as a movement spell with evocation. You can maneuver to create an appropriate Aspect, but if you want to replace your Athletics for movement you should use a ritual or an enchanted item.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on October 04, 2014, 02:32:39 PM
I think your GM is a bit off-base.

When it comes to evocation, spell effects are mostly the same no matter what element you're using. A weapon 5 attack is a weapon 5 attack, whether it's crushing gravity or a bullet of compressed air. An 8-shift block is an 8-shift block, whether it's a water wall or a spacial manipulation field.

Elements can satisfy different Catches and create different Aspects, but Aspects and Catches are mostly under the GM's control anyway.

So I don't see why he's worrying about earth or water being overpowered.

Now, if he was worried about spirit being overpowered I could see where he's coming from. It actually has special effects that other elements simply don't have.

PS: There isn't really such a thing as a movement spell with evocation. You can maneuver to create an appropriate Aspect, but if you want to replace your Athletics for movement you should use a ritual or an enchanted item.

http://toonstore.net/Periwinkles/Lucy/

What I've managed so far, had to switch to an italian name and picture for the setting.

I'm really smitten with the idea of using a wood-handled, steel climbing axe as a blasting rod, climbing implement and skull-hole-puncher all rolled into one. What sort of extra effects does spirit have? Though he doesn't want me using any of spirits illusiory or mind-messing abilities if that's what you mean. It's just pure force in his book, probably because we have an illusionist in the party.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: PirateJack on October 04, 2014, 04:46:06 PM
Your specialisations are limited to increasing either your Control (Discipline rolls) or Power (Allowing +X power per evocation above your Conviction in a certain element). You also get a free specialisation from taking Evocation in the first place.

You also have 2 focus items you can use for offensive/defensive power/control in an element.

So if you were going for a purely offensive fire mage you'd have something like this:

Evocation [-3]
Specialisations: +1 Fire Control
Focus items: +1 Offensive Fire Control, +1 Offensive Fire Power
Refinement [-1]
Specialisations: +1 Fire Control, +1 Fire Power

So you'd have an effective:

Offensive Fire Control: +8
Offensive Fire Power: +7
Defensive Fire Control: +7
Defensive Fire Power: +6

Each of your offensive fire spells can therefore be 7 shifts of power before costing you extra mental stress to cast and you're rolling to control/aim it at +8 Discipline. Your defensive spells are more limited, however, so you can only pump 6 shifts worth of power into them and are rolling at a +7 Discipline to aim/control.

Also, your Parkour stunt doesn't actually do anything at this point. It gives no bonuses to any of your rolls nor allows you to do anything that a typical Athletics roll would be unable to do. I'd suggest something along the lines of:

Parkour [-1] - Flavour here. Gain +1 to Athletics rolls when using it to climb or jump over borders, as long as you have a run up.

The general rule for making up new stunts is a +1 if it's a particularly broad/powerful trapping bonus (like here), +2 if it's supposed to denote a speciality in a given trapping (like if you're particularly good at lying to people), or +3 if it's a very specialised use of a skill (like if you're a gifted locksmith and are designing/building a lock).

EDIT: Also, you need to have fire amongst your Evocation familiarities (currently Water, Earth & Spirit) if you want to use fire magic.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on October 04, 2014, 08:15:42 PM
Your specialisations are limited to increasing either your Control (Discipline rolls) or Power (Allowing +X power per evocation above your Conviction in a certain element). You also get a free specialisation from taking Evocation in the first place.

You also have 2 focus items you can use for offensive/defensive power/control in an element.

So if you were going for a purely offensive fire mage you'd have something like this:

Evocation [-3]
Specialisations: +1 Fire Control
Focus items: +1 Offensive Fire Control, +1 Offensive Fire Power
Refinement [-1]
Specialisations: +1 Fire Control, +1 Fire Power

So you'd have an effective:

Offensive Fire Control: +8
Offensive Fire Power: +7
Defensive Fire Control: +7
Defensive Fire Power: +6

Each of your offensive fire spells can therefore be 7 shifts of power before costing you extra mental stress to cast and you're rolling to control/aim it at +8 Discipline. Your defensive spells are more limited, however, so you can only pump 6 shifts worth of power into them and are rolling at a +7 Discipline to aim/control.

Also, your Parkour stunt doesn't actually do anything at this point. It gives no bonuses to any of your rolls nor allows you to do anything that a typical Athletics roll would be unable to do. I'd suggest something along the lines of:

Parkour [-1] - Flavour here. Gain +1 to Athletics rolls when using it to climb or jump over borders, as long as you have a run up.

The general rule for making up new stunts is a +1 if it's a particularly broad/powerful trapping bonus (like here), +2 if it's supposed to denote a speciality in a given trapping (like if you're particularly good at lying to people), or +3 if it's a very specialised use of a skill (like if you're a gifted locksmith and are designing/building a lock).

EDIT: Also, you need to have fire amongst your Evocation familiarities (currently Water, Earth & Spirit) if you want to use fire magic.

I do want a fire blast, however I'm also really keen on spirit shields. Is there a way to balance things out?

Also um, can you guys help me out with aspects and troubles? I've picked out the high concept of Meddling Vigilante Sorceress, which I feel sums her character up rather well. I found these on this site, but I'm not sure how exactly they'd apply.

Carry On My Wayward Daughter
Danger is my middle name
No such thing as "in over my head"
The Bad Guys Hate My Family
Unaware of My heritage
White Knight Syndrome
I'm too cute for you to be mad at...and I know it.
Brave When I Need to Be... Usually
Can't Touch This
Do You Like the Smell of Adventure?
Jumps the Gun

So far what I've got is:

Don't Judge Me by My Size
Invoke: To seem unimportant or unthreatening to an enemy, catching them by surprise, ability to slip into small and narrow spaces
Compel: Get targeted as weak or helpless, get bullied and pushed around

The apple didn't fall far from the tree
Invoke: Whenever she decides to do the right thing, even when it's a bad idea to do so, enforcing
wizarding laws, using spirit based evocation
Compel: ??? For this one I thought it would just be an aspect highlighting her similarities to her biological father

Yeah I suck @_@ I'm too used to just picking stuff out from a dnd book
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on October 04, 2014, 09:33:47 PM
Quote
Yeah I suck @_@ I'm too used to just picking stuff out from a dnd book
Not at all. This game has a pretty steep learning curve, especially if you have a dnd or similar background. It took me a year to get to the point where I thought I got it, and it still throws me curveballs to this day. But I had fun all the while through, so it's not too bad. :)
Plus, actually playing the game like you are is going to get you there a whole lot faster. You're doing well.

For compels on "The apple didn't fall far from the tree", you can simply look at the father's flaws and apply them to your character. If the father is hotheaded, she is hotheaded. Very easy to compel on that.

I do want a fire blast, however I'm also really keen on spirit shields. Is there a way to balance things out?
Absolutely. First, we need to take inventory.
Evocation gives you 1 specialization and 2 focus item slots.
Refinement gives you 2 specializations or 2 focus item slots.

Which means we can either work with 1 point of specialization and 4 focus item slots, 2/3 or 3/2. Since you want to split things for spirit and fire anyway, and you can't lose specializations, not can they be taken away, I would suggest the 3/2 build.

Since you'll have 5 points total, you can see where you might want to go higher. The specializations/focus items you need are going to be:

(offensive) fire control
(offensive) fire power
(defensive) spirit control
(defensive) spirit power

Of course, if you take a specialization in spirit control, it will count for both offensive and defensive, so the brackets are only for considering focus items. Since you want to have these types of spells to be what you are good at, I would recommend putting one point into each. That leaves us with one point that you can use to increase one of those even further. Like this:

Specializations:
+1 fire control, fire power, spirit power

Focus items:
Steel Climbing Axe (+1 offensive fire control, +1 defensive spirit control)

Which would give you +2 fire control total, the rest would be at +1. Or you could use the 5th point for something else:

Specializations:
+1 fire control, fire power, spirit power

Focus items:
Steel Climbing Axe (+1 offensive spirit control, +1 defensive spirit control)

Which would give you +1 for every spirit spell, when using the axe, no matter if it's offensive or defensive. You could also switch around control and power of course.

And any other kind of permutation of the above would be totally valid. You could also use your 3 points of specialization to build something like this:

Specialization:
+2 fire control
+1 fire power

I personally prefer to keep things even, with uneven numbers favoring control. Especially on offensive stuff, since it also increases your attack roll. With your skills at +5, this gives you at least a +6 for your main spells, which is pretty solid.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Taran on October 04, 2014, 09:44:47 PM
Don't forget to make room for enchanted items.  I'd use up one focus slot for 2 enchanted items. You'll want at least one block.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on October 04, 2014, 09:49:44 PM
Right, you could use the 5th point for that as well. Good catch, thanks.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on October 04, 2014, 10:27:22 PM
Not at all. This game has a pretty steep learning curve, especially if you have a dnd or similar background. It took me a year to get to the point where I thought I got it, and it still throws me curveballs to this day. But I had fun all the while through, so it's not too bad. :)
Plus, actually playing the game like you are is going to get you there a whole lot faster. You're doing well.

For compels on "The apple didn't fall far from the tree", you can simply look at the father's flaws and apply them to your character. If the father is hotheaded, she is hotheaded. Very easy to compel on that.
Absolutely. First, we need to take inventory.
Evocation gives you 1 specialization and 2 focus item slots.
Refinement gives you 2 specializations or 2 focus item slots.

Which means we can either work with 1 point of specialization and 4 focus item slots, 2/3 or 3/2. Since you want to split things for spirit and fire anyway, and you can't lose specializations, not can they be taken away, I would suggest the 3/2 build.

Since you'll have 5 points total, you can see where you might want to go higher. The specializations/focus items you need are going to be:

(offensive) fire control
(offensive) fire power
(defensive) spirit control
(defensive) spirit power

Of course, if you take a specialization in spirit control, it will count for both offensive and defensive, so the brackets are only for considering focus items. Since you want to have these types of spells to be what you are good at, I would recommend putting one point into each. That leaves us with one point that you can use to increase one of those even further. Like this:

Specializations:
+1 fire control, fire power, spirit power

Focus items:
Steel Climbing Axe (+1 offensive fire control, +1 defensive spirit control)

Which would give you +2 fire control total, the rest would be at +1. Or you could use the 5th point for something else:

Specializations:
+1 fire control, fire power, spirit power

Focus items:
Steel Climbing Axe (+1 offensive spirit control, +1 defensive spirit control)

Which would give you +1 for every spirit spell, when using the axe, no matter if it's offensive or defensive. You could also switch around control and power of course.

And any other kind of permutation of the above would be totally valid. You could also use your 3 points of specialization to build something like this:

Specialization:
+2 fire control
+1 fire power

I personally prefer to keep things even, with uneven numbers favoring control. Especially on offensive stuff, since it also increases your attack roll. With your skills at +5, this gives you at least a +6 for your main spells, which is pretty solid.

My GM has a very generous view of refinement, he believes it grants you 1 element, 2 refinement and 2 specialization. I don't mind at all :D

Do you think its valid and okay for my character to get the magic climbing axe? My GM hasn't responded to my onslaught of messages yet. We do have a faith-based character with a holy sword, so there's that.

I'm thinking for my rote spells basically a whirling fire tornado blast for offence, force shield and then either another offensive spell, sort of like a kinetic punch/blast or the spirit equivalent of Ventas Servitas, something that can move others and objects and so forth. Also control is like, actually casting the spell, right? Sort of like the attack modifier, against their defence? And then power is like weapon damage?

I managed to put together some aspects, whatcha think?

No Such Thing As "In Over My Head"
'Never give up, never give in, never let anything drop, keep going no matter what, stubborn'

Invoke to achieve or endure physical or spiritual feats through sheer determination and grit, resist any attempt to change your course of action once your mind is set. keep going no matter what. convince others to go along with you with your intensity
Compel to offend someone with your stubbornness, show contempt for 'quitters', take things too far and get into trouble, make enemies by escalating things too much, get forced into a situation beyond your capabilities

Don't Judge Me by My Size
You're small, but surprisingly resourceful.
Invoke: To seem unimportant or unthreatening to an enemy, catching them by surprise, ability to slip into small and narrow spaces, harder to hit
Compel: Get targeted as weak or helpless, get bullied and pushed around, have difficulty reaching things on high shelves, easily lifted up and overpowered

Jumps The Gun:
'You have lightning fast reactions and excellent instincts...or so you'd like to believe. Others would say you act first and think later (if at all)'
Invoke to Succeed in impulsive and reckless actions, act first and fastest, handle a risky situation with much more finesse than anyone has a right to have
Compel to act quickly and realise too late what you've just done, be too busy acting first that you miss something important.

Curiosity Killed The Cat
Invoke to discover hard to find things, covertly pick up rumours, eavesdropping, noticing things out of the ordinary
Compel to make you spend time and effort exploring and examining things, lure you somewhere with the promise of interesting discoveries, be drawn into checking out something dangerous, irritate someone important with your nosiness, make dangerous discoveries, appear to know too much and become a target

I Laughed When His Guts Flew Out In That Movie
invoke to know or think of gory facts, keep your cool when dealing with morbid subjects, make particularly tasteless and unnerving threats
compel to distract you when you should be focusing on other things; make you say inappropriate jokes or comments

The Apple Didn't Fall Far From The Tree
Invoke: Whenever she decides to be a goody-two shoes, even when it's a bad idea to do so, enforcing wizarding laws, using spirit based evocation, rescue friends and allies, get everyone out safely
Compel: stop you from doing something Alberich wouldn't approve of, have alberich ask you to do something inconvenient, act in a predictable manner, preferring to work alone, keeping information from your allies to protect them, make you go back for everyone you can, make you save an enemy from death

I'm Too Cute To Be Mad At...And I Know It
Invoke: Try to charm and joke your way back into someone's good graces, puppy eyes and displays of vulnerability to alleviate the amount of trouble you're in
Compel: annoy someone by overdoing it, embarrassing yourself by failing miserably, pouting too much, getting cocky and pushing people too far

Too much? Too little? Anything else go in there to further balance things out?
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 04, 2014, 10:52:37 PM
What sort of extra effects does spirit have?

Veils and mental stuff. The extent of the mental stuff is pretty unclear, but the book specifically says that veils are the special province of spirit magic.

My GM has a very generous view of refinement, he believes it grants you 1 element, 2 refinement and 2 specialization.

So he lets you have every bonus instead of choosing one?

That's crazy. No wonder he's worried about magic being overpowered, if he's letting you do that.

Do you think its valid and okay for my character to get the magic climbing axe?

Of course. Every wizard gets a few magical items to use with their spells.

Also control is like, actually casting the spell, right? Sort of like the attack modifier, against their defence? And then power is like weapon damage?

Yes. For attacks, at least.

I managed to put together some aspects, whatcha think?

They look fine to me.

Parkour [-1] - Flavour here. Gain +1 to Athletics rolls when using it to climb or jump over borders, as long as you have a run up.

I'd say that's narrow enough for a +2, personally.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on October 04, 2014, 11:21:38 PM
Veils and mental stuff. The extent of the mental stuff is pretty unclear, but the book specifically says that veils are the special province of spirit magic.

So he lets you have every bonus instead of choosing one?

That's crazy. No wonder he's worried about magic being overpowered, if he's letting you do that.

Of course. Every wizard gets a few magical items to use with their spells.

Yes. For attacks, at least.

They look fine to me.

I'd say that's narrow enough for a +2, personally.

Yeah he doesn't want me doing veils :( For one he thinks it'd be overpowered, secondly he feels it should fall under thaumaturgy. I asked him a couple times if he was sure that was what refinement did and he insisted so I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth so to speak. Especially after the Earth and Spirit nerfs.

So is getting magical items a given? Like, a huge part of being a wizard? Something you just don't deny? I was thinking of a pair of earstuds that granted spirit control and helped put up spirit shields (like Harry's Bracelet) and, well, the climbing pick. Would I need higher resources to purchase them? I sort of thought it would be a case of, well, Alberich procuring them for her.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on October 04, 2014, 11:31:18 PM
My GM has a very generous view of refinement, he believes it grants you 1 element, 2 refinement and 2 specialization. I don't mind at all :D
But the earth element is too powerful? Your GM is weird. ???

Well, you should be able to adjust the math accordingly, I think.

Quote
Do you think its valid and okay for my character to get the magic climbing axe? My GM hasn't responded to my onslaught of messages yet. We do have a faith-based character with a holy sword, so there's that.
Well, first and foremost, it's a regular item that your character has enchanted. Does it make sense for your character to have a climbing axe? I mean there are not that many mountains in Venice, but maybe she goes hiking every other week or so, so it would make sense.

Quote
I'm thinking for my rote spells basically a whirling fire tornado blast for offence, force shield and then either another offensive spell, sort of like a kinetic punch/blast or the spirit equivalent of Ventas Servitas, something that can move others and objects and so forth. Also control is like, actually casting the spell, right? Sort of like the attack modifier, against their defence? And then power is like weapon damage?
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42974.msg2084383.html#msg2084383 ;)

Quote
I managed to put together some aspects, whatcha think?

[snip]

Too much? Too little? Anything else go in there to further balance things out?
Looks good. There should be a lot you can do with that. And if you notice that an aspect doesn't work, just change it around, you are not locked into them forever.

Yeah he doesn't want me doing veils :( For one he thinks it'd be overpowered, secondly he feels it should fall under thaumaturgy. I asked him a couple times if he was sure that was what refinement did and he insisted so I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth so to speak. Especially after the Earth and Spirit nerfs.
Yeah, that's really weird. Veils are very much doable with spirit evocations, there's a whole section about them in the book, page 276. It literally starts with "Veils are spirit evocations...".

EDIT: One tweak I made to veils is that a veil is dropped if you attack from under it. So you can't attack AND stay invisible. That way, a veil is more like an ambush, which works pretty well.

Quote
So is getting magical items a given? Like, a huge part of being a wizard? Something you just don't deny? I was thinking of a pair of earstuds that granted spirit control and helped put up spirit shields (like Harry's Bracelet) and, well, the climbing pick. Would I need higher resources to purchase them? I sort of thought it would be a case of, well, Alberich procuring them for her.
Depends on what you mean by magical items. It's not like in dnd, where you find a magical sword in a dungeon. That's kind of what the holy sword is, in the game that's called an "Item of Power". (There can be IoPs you create yourself, as well, just to be accurate.)

It's more like specialized tools you create yourself. Some wizards create them from scratch, others take something that's already made and imbue it with their magic. That's what focus item slots and enchanted item slots are for. You don't get them for free, you have to pay for them with your refresh.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on October 04, 2014, 11:50:27 PM
But the earth element is too powerful? Your GM is weird. ???

Well, you should be able to adjust the math accordingly, I think.
Well, first and foremost, it's a regular item that your character has enchanted. Does it make sense for your character to have a climbing axe? I mean there are not that many mountains in Venice, but maybe she goes hiking every other week or so, so it would make sense.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42974.msg2084383.html#msg2084383 ;)
Looks good. There should be a lot you can do with that. And if you notice that an aspect doesn't work, just change it around, you are not locked into them forever.
Yeah, that's really weird. Veils are very much doable with spirit evocations, there's a whole section about them in the book, page 276. It literally starts with "Veils are spirit evocations...".

EDIT: One tweak I made to veils is that a veil is dropped if you attack from under it. So you can't attack AND stay invisible. That way, a veil is more like an ambush, which works pretty well.
Depends on what you mean by magical items. It's not like in dnd, where you find a magical sword in a dungeon. That's kind of what the holy sword is, in the game that's called an "Item of Power". (There can be IoPs you create yourself, as well, just to be accurate.)

It's more like specialized tools you create yourself. Some wizards create them from scratch, others take something that's already made and imbue it with their magic. That's what focus item slots and enchanted item slots are for. You don't get them for free, you have to pay for them with your refresh.

Everyone has their little thing I guess, I suppose I can appreciate him not wanting one character to hog all the spotlight.  ;D

Well, I'm worried he might say that because I don't have thaumaturgy, I couldn't have enchanted an item. When I asked about having a blasting rod he did say 'if I let you', the same thing he'd said about Earth element before imposing restrictions upon it.

My logic for the climbing pick would be the fact that she's spent a good deal of time clambering around Venice; the climbing pick would have helped her scale the smoother and harder to climb walls and improve her grip on ledges and such.

I did tell him that I wanted it to be a chameleon or unnoticeability spell, where she could hear footsteps coming towards her and then curl up in a corner and cast the spell before the pursuer approached her, so they'd run right past her as she looks like the background/escapes notice. Or if she's in a tight spot she could put her high athletics to use, run away, go around a corner, curl up, veil. He didn't really seem keen  :-X
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on October 05, 2014, 12:02:11 AM
I see this type of thing coming from people who have a background in old school games, where you really have to be careful with ovrepowered characters. Fate doesn't break that easily.

Maybe suggest to try it out, that's what I like to do. If something seems unhinged, I will allow for the player to do it, but if it turns out to be wonky, we'll change it. That way, it might be that it "breaks" a scene, but you can just chalk that up as the character being incredibly lucky, and after that you tone things down. If it doesn't break, you can keep using it. Win-win. :)

Thaumaturgy isn't needed for focus items or enchanted items. Well, at least to me. An enchanted item for evocation could also be something like a family heirloom, something that has great emotional value to the character, and it allows her to focus her energy better. And if that's possible, creating an item itself is just another way to tell the story, it doesn't change anything mechanically.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on October 05, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
I see this type of thing coming from people who have a background in old school games, where you really have to be careful with ovrepowered characters. Fate doesn't break that easily.

Maybe suggest to try it out, that's what I like to do. If something seems unhinged, I will allow for the player to do it, but if it turns out to be wonky, we'll change it. That way, it might be that it "breaks" a scene, but you can just chalk that up as the character being incredibly lucky, and after that you tone things down. If it doesn't break, you can keep using it. Win-win. :)

Thaumaturgy isn't needed for focus items or enchanted items. Well, at least to me. An enchanted item for evocation could also be something like a family heirloom, something that has great emotional value to the character, and it allows her to focus her energy better. And if that's possible, creating an item itself is just another way to tell the story, it doesn't change anything mechanically.

I've just gotten hold of a pdf of the rulebook, and I'm going to print out the few pages on evocation to bring with me. Hopefully these and some convincing will allow me to cast me some veils. Otherwise I might have to switch one of my skills up with stealth. Probably dump contacts, bring alertness down and get +stealth. Or actually do that and get something for physical attacks, like clunking someone over the head with said climbing pick. Hm...or bring athletics down one. With parkour adding athletics I could afford to bring it down. Argh!

Though you've given me a great idea! The climbing pick could have originally been a shortstaff passed on through generations of the von Seckendorf family, but because Alberich is a stubborn and secretive fellow he doesn't tell Lucy, who assuming it's just some old staff sticks a climbing pick-head to it. She'd comment on how Alberich looked like he was going to cry when he saw what she did to it.  :P
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 05, 2014, 12:15:12 AM
I see this type of thing coming from people who have a background in old school games, where you really have to be careful with ovrepowered characters. Fate doesn't break that easily.

That Refinement tweak might manage it, though. I could build a seriously scary Crafter under those rules.

Thaumaturgy isn't needed for focus items or enchanted items. Well, at least to me.

Personally I'd allow foci but not enchanted items. Opinions vary somewhat, but I think it's pretty broadly agreed that evokers should get to do something with their focus slots.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on October 05, 2014, 12:20:43 AM
That Refinement tweak might manage it, though. I could build a seriously scary Crafter under those rules.
True, handling Refinement like that can lead to seriously broken builds.
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Periwinkles on October 05, 2014, 12:43:45 AM
That Refinement tweak might manage it, though. I could build a seriously scary Crafter under those rules.

Personally I'd allow foci but not enchanted items. Opinions vary somewhat, but I think it's pretty broadly agreed that evokers should get to do something with their focus slots.

Crafter?
Title: Re: Help starting out...
Post by: Haru on October 05, 2014, 12:50:49 AM
Crafter?
It's a way to push out a whole lot of power out of a wizard build. You can take specializations for creating enchanted items, increasing their power and the number of uses per session. If done right, that build is by far the most powerful wizard you can get. If you add to that the way your Refinement works, you'll be blowing up whole cities in no time.

Btw., I'd advice against switching to a crafter now, even though it might seem tempting. Just regular magic is complicated enough in the beginning.