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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Shekbo on May 21, 2010, 02:59:40 AM

Title: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Shekbo on May 21, 2010, 02:59:40 AM
I'm creating some characters for a game set in Vermont. One of the characters is going to be a White Vampire who is the lead singer for a very popular band (think Phish or Dispatch or something similar). My hope is that he could feed on the emotions of the group during the show... touching the hands of fans leaning up on to the stage and so on. Plus maybe on the groupies that follow the band.

I could go with the standard lust but I'd like to tweak that a little and I'm not sure what to call it.

The ecstasy or high that people might get at a show like this might be too positive an emotion. Is addiction an emotion? I might be able to link this to drug use in some way... Maybe setting up the family as the local drug lords feeding off addiction. But I'm not sure if that works as an emotion.

Ideas?

Tom
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Saedar on May 21, 2010, 03:28:34 AM
I think Euphoria might be the closest to what you're describing.

It can be either positive or negative (more about how it manifests in the individual).
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Wizard H on May 21, 2010, 04:00:08 AM
Perhaps since he has the whole band angle he can feed off adoration or adulation?  He could crowdsurf and feed at the same time :D
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: paul_Harkonen on May 21, 2010, 04:33:36 AM
You could also do worship, or devotion, although the problem with most of these is figuring out what the Catch is.  I suppose you could still go with True Love, but I'm not sure it fits as well with the emotional obsession of a crowd at a concert.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Mal_Luck on May 21, 2010, 04:46:49 AM
Lust is probably your best bet. Your fans lust after you, I'm assuming the character is a hot dude and many of his groupies would drop panties if he winked at them. Maybe make it lust still, but his preference of lust is desire?

Also At Range would probably be a necessity, unless he only feeds from after concert sex.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Blaze on May 21, 2010, 04:58:22 AM
*Noms Fangurlz*
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Baron Hazard on May 21, 2010, 04:58:45 AM
You could also do worship, or devotion, although the problem with most of these is figuring out what the Catch is.  I suppose you could still go with True Love, but I'm not sure it fits as well with the emotional obsession of a crowd at a concert.

I'd imagine the catch for Devotion/Worship would be True Apathy.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Blaze on May 21, 2010, 04:59:32 AM
Ennui?
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: paul_Harkonen on May 21, 2010, 06:05:58 AM
I'd imagine the catch for Devotion/Worship would be True Apathy.

That doesn't seem right to me, simply because the opposite of Lust is not Love, and the notion of Apathy as an active emotion seems strange to me.  It'd have to be something like "True Understanding" or even True Love as an active, similar but counter emotion.  Just like the counter to Fear is Courage (keep in mind that Courage is not the absence of fear, simply a control and direction for it).

Either way, I think that Lust actually works fine
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(Deat Beat and onward spoilers.)  Fans lust after the rock star, and he or she feeds off of them.  Sheds a whole new light on the music revolution and rise of Rock and Roll during the 50s, 60s, and 70s.  Suddenly has mean thoughts for his players...
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Deadmanwalking on May 21, 2010, 06:59:44 AM
Devotion actually sounds awesome as a posibility. The Catch would be True Faith...someone who is truly faithful can harm the character and is immune to his abilities to instill devotion.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Valarian on May 21, 2010, 07:24:06 AM
I've come across something recently (http://soniarott.wordpress.com/2007/03/21/six-base-emotions/) that brings in to question whether the Raiths feed on Lust or whether they are Ecstasy feeders and incite ecstasy. Lust is just one of the easiest directions to take the ecstasy. I'm looking to use the theory of three basic emotions (ecstasy, despair, fear) within my games for the White Court. The wider theory of six basic emotions (Paul Ekman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ekman#Emotion_classification)) could be used to construct other White Court Houses, dominant in other areas of the world. Other lists of emotions are available in this wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_classification).

In this case, a Raith vampire feeding on Ecstasy would be a good choice for a vampire trying to feed "in bits" rather than large bites by performing. A pub or club crowd might just keep the hunger at bay. An arena crowd would satisfy hunger for a while. Periods where the band were off tour would be a problem for the character.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Shekbo on May 21, 2010, 11:10:03 AM
Wow,

  Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I'm going with Blind Devotion and using True Faith as a counter. I think blind devotion and addiction could be pretty closely tied so I will have some of the family into the drug trade as a complication.

Tom
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: ludomaniac on May 21, 2010, 12:51:42 PM
Losing control during a performance would be both bad for the character and great for the band's mystique!  Imagine a goth band with a reputation for occasionally killing a fan with nothing but the dark power of their music...
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Valarian on May 21, 2010, 02:32:51 PM
Yum, lots of potential for vengeful parents and investigations/raids for drugs mid-concert. Protests outside the entrance against the band and their "satanic and evil" music.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: surarrin on May 21, 2010, 03:45:10 PM
..on a completely different but semish note..

I made a character who could Incite: Courage. Not an emotional vampire though, he was a Paladin.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Wordmaker on May 21, 2010, 05:53:34 PM
That's an awesome character concept. I have a possible player joining who wants to play a White Court vampire who tries to "sip" enough to stay fed. Could I offer this up as a possibility to him?
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: wampa on May 26, 2010, 07:06:48 PM
Remember, Incite emotion is a mental stress attack. Courage isn't really a mental stress attack type of emotion... If you want to go for something along those lines, design a presence-based (or possibly conviction-based) stunt to get the whole "inspiring courage" thing going. That's not to say there aren't situations where courage can get you killed, but mental stress, not so much.

I really, really, really would recommend you NOT letting your WCV take courage as incite emotion. For me, that's the same category as Hope, Love, etc, if perhaps a milder version- which is part of why I'd put it as a mortal stunt. Remember, White Court Vampires are STILL Vampires. It should be HARD to be heroic as a WCV. It isn't much of an inner struggle against your monster when sunshine and puppies keep you well fed. If you want a fun RP experience for a struggling-against-my-inner-monster WCV, I'd go with despair or anger- Lust, which Thomas struggles with considerably, is in my opinion the easier side of things from a non-monstrosity point of view.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Deadmanwalking on May 26, 2010, 07:11:32 PM
While I agree with you that WCVs shouldn't have the ability in question, and even perhaps that some other ability should be used, but I don't think you need to convince anyone that the White Court shouldn't get Incite Courage, I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement there.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Tharios on May 26, 2010, 09:08:32 PM
His Paladin isn't a WCV, anyway.  After all, that's the most common way to get Incite Emotion, but far from the only way.

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with Inciting "Courage" in someone and still inflicting mental stress.  You place an aspect on someone that convinces them they're brave when they're still scared stiff...allowing them to act courageously at the expense of their psychological well-being, since it's forced.

Perfectly reasonable to me, though probably still not a good choice for a Paladin...unless the character only believes himself to be a Paladin and isn't actually sanctioned by a god, therefore having no powers of faith.  Perhaps a religious nut with some minor talent that thinks it's a gift from God?  He goes around "helping" people just like Molly tried to, never realizing he's destroying their minds little by little.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: gaelvin on May 27, 2010, 01:11:27 AM
For the Paladin, I'd say you could create a new True Faith Power. Maybe call it:

DIVINE INSPIRATION [-1]
Description: In times of trouble, you can call upon your own Faith to bolster those around you.
Skills Affected: Conviction
Effects:
Courage. As a maneuver, you can roll your Conviction at +2 to inspire in others courage or a similar emotion which can be backed by your Faith. Any single ally in the same zone can be targeted by this power, but they resist with their own Conviction; those with strong beliefs of their own are not as easily inspired by the Faith of another. With success, an appropriate temporary aspect can be placed on the target.
Mass-Courage [-1]. The same effect can be instilled in all allies within the same zone.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Tharios on May 27, 2010, 04:48:35 AM
For the Paladin, I'd say you could create a new True Faith Power. Maybe call it:

DIVINE INSPIRATION [-1]
Description: In times of trouble, you can call upon your own Faith to bolster those around you.
Skills Affected: Conviction
Effects:
Courage. As a maneuver, you can roll your Conviction at +2 to inspire in others courage or a similar emotion which can be backed by your Faith. Any single ally in the same zone can be targeted by this power, but they resist with their own Conviction; those with strong beliefs of their own are not as easily inspired by the Faith of another. With success, an appropriate temporary aspect can be placed on the target.
Mass-Courage [-1]. The same effect can be instilled in all allies within the same zone.
I don't think it should be resisted.  Resistance implies force.  The whole point of true faith seems to revolve around the idea that those who have it and promote it are not themselves coerced or forced and do not do so to others.  It should be strictly a choice on the part of their allies.  They can take the aspect, or not take it.  If they agree to take it, it still may not help if their own conviction is too high and their beliefs too different.  Not so much resistance as rather not enough mojo to make it to them.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: gaelvin on May 27, 2010, 06:16:47 AM
I don't agree that resistance implies force. If there were stress applied, that would be a different story. And while I think a case could be made for people resisting the Conviction of another person, I see your point. Especially considering that, by that method, other True Believers would be the least likely to benefit from the use of this power.

Maybe rather than placing an aspect on characters, the power places an aspect on a scene, kind of like the Performance skill. That way, characters can invoke it or not by choice.

Still, it seems like there should be something more to it.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: wampa on May 27, 2010, 05:09:22 PM
A slight rephrasing / clarification / alteration of what I said before.

1. No positive emotions of any sort for WCVs! It just doesn't feel right thematically.
2. For the paladin, I'd go with a true faith power or mortal stunt for the whole courage-boosting thing.
3. Tharios, gonna have to agree to disagree on the the "courage as mental stress." Courage isn't really something that feels like it could inherently endanger someone's psychological well-being if they're naturally scared out of their wits - if anything, it'd be improving their psychological well-being temporarily. Just because its external, doesn't mean its negative- consider things like the leadership stunt.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: ludomaniac on May 27, 2010, 07:29:49 PM
Here's a WCV character concept for you: a Fred Phelps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps)-style minister who feeds on hatred.

Actually, that might be a better NPC...
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Tharios on May 27, 2010, 08:11:49 PM
A slight rephrasing / clarification / alteration of what I said before.

1. No positive emotions of any sort for WCVs! It just doesn't feel right thematically.
2. For the paladin, I'd go with a true faith power or mortal stunt for the whole courage-boosting thing.
3. Tharios, gonna have to agree to disagree on the the "courage as mental stress." Courage isn't really something that feels like it could inherently endanger someone's psychological well-being if they're naturally scared out of their wits - if anything, it'd be improving their psychological well-being temporarily. Just because its external, doesn't mean its negative- consider things like the leadership stunt.
I know what you're trying to say, and it does seem we've reached an impasse.  Just...please don't use the phrase, "agree to disagree."  It never sounds to me like anything but a cop-out, and I'm pretty sure you're not copping-out.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: surarrin on May 28, 2010, 09:41:00 AM
The idea for Incite: Courage was using it to place maneuvers and aspects on your allies.

You guys are assuming that the character would be taking lasting Emotion and  Potent Emotion.

They'd take at range, and just that, because they aren't trying to damage their allies, It's of course up to the ally to determine if they want to resist.

Code: [Select]
Emotion-Touch. If you can touch someone, you
can make him feel something. You’re able
to do maneuvers at +2 to your roll (using
Intimidation for anger or fear and Deceit for
every other emotion) that force an emotion
on a target (as a temporary aspect), so long
as you’re in the same zone as he is and you
can physically touch him. The victim defends
with his Discipline. You may be able to
prevent the victim from taking other actions
as well if you do this as a block (page 210)
instead of as a maneuver.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: JosephKell on June 04, 2010, 01:25:41 AM
Wow,

  Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I'm going with Blind Devotion and using True Faith as a counter. I think blind devotion and addiction could be pretty closely tied so I will have some of the family into the drug trade as a complication.

Tom
How is True Faith not the same as Blind Devotion?

I think the opposite of Blind Devotion is Complete Skepticism.  Which is kind of lame as the only people with that are shut in conspiracy nuts and little kids that have just discovered the word "Why?"  Although the latter might just be annoyingly curious.  But the point is that no one can be both functional and completely skeptical (getting through life requires a minimum level of assumptions).

Obsession, Adoration, or Lust make more sense.  And those are all so similar it probably isn't worth the effort to distinguish between them.

And you can get to "blind devotion" from lust via consequences (and maybe aspects?  *Eek*).  If WCV Lead Singer feeds enough it isn't a stretch to assume a bunch of fans have been effected.  Especially if you allow for a further upgrade to allow for "zone attacks at range" (which seems almost too good, so probably just hand wave it for non-conflict scenes).
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 04, 2010, 01:27:49 AM
How is True Faith not the same as Blind Devotion?

The same way True Love differs from Lust. True Faith is in no way blind, it's just true and real, and exists on a level that Blind, mindless, Devotion does not.
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: JosephKell on June 04, 2010, 01:59:04 AM
The same way True Love differs from Lust. True Faith is in no way blind, it's just true and real, and exists on a level that Blind, mindless, Devotion does not.
But "devotion" and "faith" are synonyms.  The same can't be said for "lust" and "love."

And "True Love" in DFRPG means having an aspect.  What kind of aspect can a character have that relates to "true faith" without being hokey?
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: luminos on June 04, 2010, 02:02:15 AM
But "devotion" and "faith" are synonyms.  The same can't be said for "lust" and "love."

And "True Love" in DFRPG means having an aspect.  What kind of aspect can a character have that relates to "true faith" without being hokey?

Do you realize there is an entire section of powers based on True Faith?
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 04, 2010, 02:03:54 AM
Yeah, but Blind and True are basically antonyms, which makes quite a difference.

As for Aspects indicating it, um, having any of the True Faith powers? Every Aspect Michael has? Most of Sanya's and Father Forthill's as well?
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: JosephKell on June 04, 2010, 02:50:53 AM
Do you realize there is an entire section of powers based on True Faith?
I am well aware of True Faith powers.  But it seems hokey to suddenly see a lot of NPCs with true faith.

But true faith as a defense seems either too easy or too hard depending on the degree of specificity.

Is Dresden protected because of his faith in his magic?  Or is he vulnerable because of his admitted non-partisanship (despite "knowing" that there are super powerful--divine?--beings).

Is a run down cop vulnerable because he has been on the job for 30 years?  Or protected because he knows that backup is just a button away (cops carry a panic button of sorts that summons all available units)?

Is devotion (in the traditional sense) really the right emotion or is this vampire feeding off people's need for something to believe in?  The need to belong?
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 04, 2010, 03:30:21 AM
All those are valid questions. But I can ask the same ones about True Hope, or True Courage, or even True Love. The answers will likely vary between GMs and should absolutely be delved into if you're playing such a creature...but asking them doesn't invalidate the idea of the emotion and Catch in question.

Also, in order:

Alot? All you reall need is one. It's supposed to be a rare Catch after all (+0, remember?).

The same could be said of True Love or any of the other emotions. The GM is needed to find an appropriate balance.

Probably vulnerable, unless he's got true, real, faith in something larger than himself (Murphy's belief in the law likely qualifies).

Is there a meaningful, non-semantic, distinction?
Title: Re: I need an emotion for my White Vampire
Post by: GoldenH on June 04, 2010, 03:39:06 AM
IMC,  I have a White Court Vampire whose weakness is True Faith. But my take on it is that White Court Vampires aren't affected by people WITH True whatever, but the target of that. So people who have true faith in god, aren't protected by that faith.. but god is. So celebrities and/or personal heroes will have people with True Faith in them, and be protected, which actually I think, will irritate vampires a lot more and do stuff to muddy the political waters which I think is great. Plus, those with true faith will create symbols of faith, which means that there's often a physical manifestation for people to defend themselves with. All this adds up to /exciting/ niftiness for you to pull in game.

You can really do the same thing with True Love, Hope or Courage. It makes it more like it is in the books, IMO.. Harry Dresden has True Love with Susan,
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