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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Diceling on August 16, 2016, 04:02:31 PM

Title: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Diceling on August 16, 2016, 04:02:31 PM
Inspired by a thread on a forum for another RPG, this thread is meant to house all those question that need answering, but aren't advanced or complex enough to warrant their own thread.

Ask your question and, hopefully, someone will come right along with the answer! Everyone is encouraged to ask and everyone is encouraged to answer. If you're in doubt whether or not this thread is the right fit for your question, you can go either way: start a thread, not harm in that (I think), or ask here. If it seems that there will be discussion, I'm sure that the awesome moderator can sort it out.

Ask away!
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Diceling on August 16, 2016, 04:06:32 PM
And, to kick things off, I'll start:

In our campaign, one character is a former basketball player (NBA pro) that has taken up the mantle of the Summer Knight.

Would a Stunt to let her aim ball-shaped fire spells using Athletics instead of Discipline be fair/balanced/good?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Theogony_IX on August 16, 2016, 04:13:22 PM
Seems fair to me.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 17, 2016, 01:38:31 AM
If anything, it seems weak. I let people shuffle around their casting skills entirely with a 1 Refresh Power. That might be a bit too extreme for many tastes, but regardless moving a small part of control to Athletics shouldn't be a problem.

Unless your player has a high level of Speed, that is. Mythic Speed is pretty amazing even if it doesn't give you +3 to your attack rolls.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Theogony_IX on August 17, 2016, 04:22:11 PM
I like that Sanctaphrax.  So with a 1 refresh stunt, you'd let them choose a different control skill and a different power skill?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Amelia Crane on August 17, 2016, 06:48:53 PM
Pretty much.  I'd call it a power instead of a stunt.  But seeing as you have to have a power as a prereq anyway, the difference between a stunt and a 1 refresh power is academic.  I think the homebrew power people around here often use is Alternate Magical Paradigm (https://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Alternate+Magical+Paradigm).  I think that's a touch too powerful, myself, but not so much as to disallow it.  If you just want to use it as a stunt, changing a single trapping of a skill (like an implicit controlling casting trapping) is the first example of the proper power level of a stunt, so your stated stunt is a little weak (since it's one trapping conditionally), but still functional.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Haru on August 17, 2016, 07:47:14 PM
Didn't we have a thread like this a while ago? Maybe we can make this one sticky so people see it?

Anyhow, I usually allow it, even without taking a stunt. In this case, I think it could either be a reworked breath weapons or channeling, either would probably be fine. I've let people generally use alternative skills for magic, as long as it makes sense for them.

Allowing the symbiosis with speed powers might be a bit troubling, but that's something I wouldn't hesitate to veto if it got out of hand.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on August 31, 2016, 03:05:03 PM
Great thread, Diceling! I've got a lot of little questions that I'd like to ask from time to time, but don't warrant a whole post on their own.

Question the first: Does Channeling give you Rote Spells? Or is that only if you have full Evocation?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on August 31, 2016, 04:00:07 PM
Yes rotes
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on August 31, 2016, 05:54:26 PM
Question. I have a character who has an item of power and I am deeply interested in getting the ability "All are equal before God" or a variation on my item of power eventually since our power level is feet in the water. What I would like to know is how much would such an ability cost. I asked in my whatsapp group and everyone was freaking out and whatever like its gonna be the end of the world. One side argued that their should faith based items because of different religions and whatever but my DM shut that idea down. My DM made it so that there will only be 3 faith based items in game i.e the swords of the cross and he was going on about how its unfair for a p.c. to just spend refresh to get that particular ability, while someone else who took the time to be a knight of a across to get said item. I argued that its easy to get a sword of the cross only because of the red tape surrounding it, via the trappings and restriction and have a high concept to match.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on August 31, 2016, 07:21:06 PM
Yes rotes
Thanks Taran!
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on August 31, 2016, 08:45:53 PM
How would a character defend against a "Blinding Flash" maneuver? Like a Blinding Flash Ring or Blinding Flash spell, etc? Would it be Alertness, saying you notice in time to try to close your eyes, or Athletics which is used for most other physical defense rolls? Or another skill?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on August 31, 2016, 09:46:38 PM
Question. I have a character who has an item of power and I am deeply interested in getting the ability "All are equal before God" or a variation on my item of power eventually since our power level is feet in the water. What I would like to know is how much would such an ability cost. I asked in my whatsapp group and everyone was freaking out and whatever like its gonna be the end of the world. One side argued that their should faith based items because of different religions and whatever but my DM shut that idea down. My DM made it so that there will only be 3 faith based items in game i.e the swords of the cross and he was going on about how its unfair for a p.c. to just spend refresh to get that particular ability, while someone else who took the time to be a knight of a across to get said item. I argued that its easy to get a sword of the cross only because of the red tape surrounding it, via the trappings and restriction and have a high concept to match.

First: there are more items of Faith than the swords.  The books had the grail and the shroud.  Those are just Christian items.  Considering Jews and Muslims worship the white god, I wouldn't be surprised if there were others like Moses's staff, the arc etc...

Also, there are theories that The White God has the mantle of all major gods in varying faiths.  Someone on these boards mentioned Gitchi Manitou. If you expand the white Gods portfolio to other Faiths like that, then there could be all kinds of items of Faith.

Harry mentionned items of Faith come in all shapes and that it is belief that gives them power.  This is why he could use his Silver Pentacle to ward himself from vampires.

Given all that, I see no reason why there can't be an item with all equal before God. 

Second: A PC doesn't 'just get' an item of Faith.  They spend refresh on it and that refresh has to be justified by a good back story or in-game reason. 

A PC spends refresh the same way as an NPC.  My point is this: if nothing In the game justifies an item of Faith, then you can't just spend refresh on it and magically have one.

If you, for example, find John the Baptists' camel skin cloak, the. It's a pretty good reason to spend refresh on Faith Powers.  Those Faith Powers should probably reflect the kind of item you have.  And you still need an aspect that is associated with the item.   

So I'd say your GM is partially right in that regard.

Third:  the refresh cost isn't specifically stated.  I think it's between 3-5 refresh? 

How would a character defend against a "Blinding Flash" maneuver? Like a Blinding Flash Ring or Blinding Flash spell, etc? Would it be Alertness, saying you notice in time to try to close your eyes, or Athletics which is used for most other physical defense rolls? Or another skill?

The default defence for most evocation attacks/maneuvers is athletics.  If the player can justify an alternative defence and the GM approves, then go for it.   
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 01, 2016, 03:35:23 AM
Exact defending skills for a blinding flash will vary by table, but I'd allow Athletics, Alertness, or Endurance.

I'll second what Taran said about items of faith.

ACaEBG is probably worth 4 Refresh, since the Sword costs 5 before rebates and True Aim should probably cost 1. Holy can be free, I think; I wouldn't charge refresh for a holy sword that grants no actual Powers.

Didn't we have a thread like this a while ago? Maybe we can make this one sticky so people see it?

People are surprisingly likely to ignore sticky threads. I think it's more visible like this.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: jeangenet on September 03, 2016, 03:30:20 PM
Do you get item slots for sponsored magic?
Do the two item slots for thaumaturgy and evocation stack.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 03, 2016, 04:10:25 PM
Yes and yes.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 04, 2016, 04:12:04 AM
How does one protect themselves from the power Incite emotion? I can't help but feel that its pretty broken for a power that only cost refresh and meeting the prereqs. Since a player at the table has been abusing this particular power on members of the party who are not magically aware and its bloody annoying. Not to mention the fact that its just a power, the laws of magic doesn't protect mortals from it because its a supernatural power rather than just magic.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 04, 2016, 04:57:49 AM
If it's a PC, wait until they do it in a semi-public place and then you spend a FP to compel their High Concept to have them lose control and start feeding on someone to death.  Hilarity ensues.  If they pay off the compel, then they are down one FP. 

Then you sit back and laugh and laugh.

Seriously, though,  there should be consequences to using powers constantly.  Eventually even vanilla mortals are going to notice something.  That's what compels are for.  Thomas used his powers on a daily basis but it was pretty harmless.  But if what they are doing is harmful, someone is going to notice.

Also, why are they using it on other PCs?  Is it in character to do so?  Does it make for a good story?  Are all the players having fun?  Maybe this should be a discussion with your group.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 04, 2016, 08:36:30 AM
If it's a PC using it on other PCs, you might have an OoC problem to resolve.

In general, though, you answer Incite Emotion by taking out the person using it. It's not very plausible to weather attacks and maneuvers endlessly. Especially not mental attacks at weapon 4.

Also, anyone attacked with Incite Emotion should be aware of it. Even if they don't know what magic is, they can feel the attack hit.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 04, 2016, 01:21:33 PM
Yea because honestly that is super frustrating to me. Example, lets say I am talking with my best friend and we are having a good time. Someone uses incite emotion on me, they get over my defense and they are trying to argue that i would not even know it happened. Because they have incite emotion: pride. An personally you logically can't make that make sense. Also, I have no idea what he is, though he can't be a vampire because he is walking about in daylight and nothing happens and he is not inhuman. Because we got in a fight in the never never against some sort of dogs and he got ganged up on by the two of them. Basically gashing his leg  and making it hard for him to be on both legs, so I had to begrudgingly carry him because only 2 people have super strength and the 2nd person went to get food. In combat we did not see him physically hurt them in anyway, shape or form but we know they are being hurt in some way. Like one minute they are fine and really down to kill us and the next minute they are both suddenly distracted? With aspects tagged on them like Man vs dog and the like. I'm not well versed in dresden rpg so I don't know the major ins and outs and whatnot. Though that experience is causing me to go back to Volume 1 and 2 because I recall white court vampires having that and I really need something to protect me from that. We just hit a significant and minor milestone in yesterday's game after our crazy adventures so I am adding lore to my sheet so I can research that ingame and know for sure.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 04, 2016, 01:42:25 PM
This should be its own thread....

I'm not sure incite is that obvious - maybe actual psychic damage is, but I'd say the maneuvers are designed to be subtle otherwise everyone would know what a White Court Vampire is.

Hitting their High Concept:  This is more of an OOC thing.

FYI:  White Court Vampires are not hurt by Sunlight.

If the PC is a white court that feeds off pride and (s)he uses a maneuver to cause someone to be Prideful. it means an aspect related to their Hunger is now on the scene.  Use a FP and invoke that aspect.  Compel them to lose control and want to feed.  This forces them to act in a way that is less subtle - they will want to Psychically EAT someone - which translates to kill them.  This is pretty obvious.

There are other compels you could do.  compel him to hit other people up with Pride because he loves the feeling of it.  Suddenly there's a bunch of prideful people in the room arguing and a fight breaks out and now he's caught in the middle of it.

Maybe there's an important political person in the room and, because of his Prideful feelings, feels slighted by the Vampire.  Now this person has it out for them.

Remember that every aspect is a double-edged sword.

Your GM should really be doing the compelling, though.  But, as long as your character knows an aspect exists, you can invoke it.  In fact, if you have a character aspect that would be related to it, I see no reason why you wouldn't get a FP to have a vampire want to start feeding on you.  Seems like a complication to me.

I'd think that using another person's pride to get your own way in an argument would be difficult unless you're using reverse psychology.  But, that's what White Court Vampires do: they manipulate people.

Once again, why is a fellow player trying to manipulate all the other Player's characters?

Edit:  IF you want to learn more about a character, use Empathy to learn an aspect.  If you have low empathy, rack up a few aspects in advance: contacts to gain info on them, Investigation, alertness.  Maybe a few declarations.  Spend a FP if you need, then roll empathy and make sure you have a high enough roll.  Once you know the aspect, you will always know it.  Part of the reason they are manipulating the situation is because your character doesn't know what they are.  Once you know, it will be harder for them to do.  Be careful though.  They probably have high deceit.  if they defend with deceit, they can give you a false aspect, so make sure you roll high enough.  You should probably know if you succeed or fail, though.

In any case, I recommend you talk to your GM and the group if this is frustrating you.  It really sounds like a group dynamics problem.  All my proposed solutions are just to help you turn the tables on the Character and make the game more interesting.  They shouldn't really be done as a passive aggressive tool to screw over the player in question.  All compels are negotiated anyways, so you'll have to talk about the problem in any case.  It might just be a good way to bridge the subject if you start compelling those aspects against the Vampire (assuming they are a vamp).
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on September 04, 2016, 01:54:29 PM
Speaking as a GM that's had a Whampire in a previous campaign, do yourself a favor and either talk to the player off to the side or ban the concept altogether.  At the very least ask him/her why he feels the need to feed on fellow party members (and technically taking control of their characters). 
That said, my two cents says that unless that PC is related or bound to another PC, to ban them altogether as PCs. 
Truth be told, he'd be a better NPC, feeding Contacts and clues to the party. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 04, 2016, 04:14:06 PM
I have no idea if they are or are not a vampire but you do bring up an excellent point and I will be sure to use your advice to find out more about him. We are playing at feet in the water level and his deceit is a 4, and the only way we is even know he is lying is because our party's rogue (sidhe who has not decided to serve winter or summer) specializes in stealth and burglary rolled a deceit against him and instantly found out he was lying to us in game yesterday. Then the practicing wizare got him into a soul gaze by telling him look him in the eyes and tell him he is not lying. Ended up finding out he has some connection to an eastern dragon named sebastion who is constantly whispering in his ear and a few tidbits. Oog I would assume he would be an emisarry of power but ingame I can't/won't use the knowledge because he did not bring that information to the party nor do I know if that is the case. Though the guy with the dragon said something about the wizard looking inside of him, which put me on alert and makes wary of them both. When I get the chance I'll post what all he's done since game one and you will see why I am frustrated.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 04, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
When I get the chance I'll post what all he's done since game one and you will see why I am frustrated.

Sure.  Just make a new thread for it.  This one is for simple questions.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 04, 2016, 07:23:48 PM
I'm not sure incite is that obvious - maybe actual psychic damage is, but I'd say the maneuvers are designed to be subtle otherwise everyone would know what a White Court Vampire is.

My rule of thumb is that the maneuvers are as subtle as social maneuvers are, and the attacks are as subtle as physical attacks are.

Incidentally, if this is a Feet In The Water game, the character can't be a full WCV. Not enough Refresh.

Anyway, this sounds more like a player problem than a character problem.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 05, 2016, 05:10:36 AM
Has there ever been an example of anyone using Outsider magic? An if so what would be a good example of what to expect of such a thing?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on September 07, 2016, 06:42:57 PM
Do Red Court Infected still have to consume some blood to live/heal/recover? I think I may be misunderstanding Blood Drinker & Feeding Dependency. Do RC Infected just abstain all-together? Or is it like Angle from Buffy/Angel tv series where the character could just feed on blood from a Blood Bank or something like that. I think the Feeding Failure and Failure Recovery is tripping me up too.

Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on September 07, 2016, 07:08:47 PM
Has there ever been an example of anyone using Outsider magic? An if so what would be a good example of what to expect of such a thing?
In the novels?  What comes to mind is
(click to show/hide)
In game mechanic terms, I'd think this could be accomplished easily enough as a Sponsored Magic boost?  Certainly gets Lawbreaker overtones and whatnot too. 

Just my 0.02, I've not done it in a game, myself.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 08, 2016, 07:00:43 AM
Red Court Infected can get by without feeding. Most of their magical superpowers are blood-fueled, though.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on September 08, 2016, 02:25:01 PM
Red Court Infected can get by without feeding. Most of their magical superpowers are blood-fueled, though.

Thanks for responding and that's good to know. I still may not be understanding Feeding Failure and Failure recovery all the way. If a RCI suffers feeding failure and can't absorb all the stress and they begin to loose access to their supernatural abilities, Feeding Dependency says they must sit out some scenes to recover and it is assumed that they're feeding. Would the RCI be feeding on blood somehow? Or would it be okay for a RCI to sit out some scenes undergoing deep meditation or some other form of time-based recovery?

I'm preparing a game for a group of new players (most are completely new to RPG gaming) and one of the group is playing a Red Court Infected, so I just want to make sure I understand how everything works out before the player and I have a misunderstanding. I really appreciate all the help!
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on September 08, 2016, 02:51:45 PM
Well, taking the books as the example, Susan and the Fellowship people seemed able to "walk it off" to some extent through focus and mental discipline, though they had those magic tattoos (does your RCI have those?). 

Conceptually I could get behind the idea that the RCI can fuel their supernatural powers by feeding off their own human side (in more or less the way a starving human's body will start feeding off it's own muscle tissue), then have to sit out a few scenes to recover from what would more or less be acute blood loss.  I also dont know what the official ruling on WCV and animal blood feeding would be, though I'd personally lean toward saying that it would work but be far less potent that Human blood, in the same way animal zombies are less potent than Humans.  I dont know of anything to say blood-bank blood wouldnt work unless you think RCV would have some kind of allergic reaction to the anti-coagulants they mix it with (which could be an interesting idea to play with if you expect heavy RCV involvement). 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on September 09, 2016, 03:46:27 AM
Thanks Quantus! I was thinking along the same lines as what you had suggested; to me it did seem that Susan and others could take some time to bring their vampire side back under control and that was how I was going to run it as the GM. But I did a re-read of the rules and just wanted to see how other's had interpreted it. And yes, the player who'll be the RCI will have the Tattoos of St. Giles.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on September 09, 2016, 08:39:57 PM
My quick question:

In the novels, Harry is able to fend off vampires using his faith in magic to hold them at bay.  Is he using something like the Conviction-based "Blessed Words "Stunt (that allows him to swap Conviction for Fists or Athletics) to defend against the attack, or is he actually performing a block with Evocation (and taking a point of mental stress as he does so)?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Amelia Crane on September 10, 2016, 01:24:28 AM
I'd say he's establishing an aspect of his faith in magic and compelling the high-concept of the vampires to keep them at bay.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 10, 2016, 05:38:03 AM
My quick question:

In the novels, Harry is able to fend off vampires using his faith in magic to hold them at bay.  Is he using something like the Conviction-based "Blessed Words "Stunt (that allows him to swap Conviction for Fists or Athletics) to defend against the attack, or is he actually performing a block with Evocation (and taking a point of mental stress as he does so)?

Yeah, I agree with Amelia.

He's either spending a FP to compel the Vampire's High Concept or he's Invoking "My Mother's Silver Pentacle"  or he's doing a conviction maneuver and invoking it for effect.  Or whatever combination of the three.

In any case, it's not a stunt or power.  It's simply an aspect being invoked for effect.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 10, 2016, 03:30:24 PM
How powerful is Thamaturgy exactly and do I need to be a full wizard to do it or no?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on September 10, 2016, 03:47:00 PM
You can make the argument that Thaumaturgy is single biggest thing going for wizards, given that you can grab the reins to the universe and yell giddy-up, making it respond to your will.  Put bluntly, you can make it do anything you want, given enough time and resources.  Bind a Garou, drop a satellite, open a path to the Nevernever, etc.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 12, 2016, 04:38:48 PM
The laws of magic only applies to those who only use magic correct?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on September 12, 2016, 04:55:07 PM
The laws of magic only applies to those who only use magic correct?
I'm going to need some clarification, please.  I will say that they apply to those ostensibly mortal/free-willed characters (IOW, PCs for the most part).  For more info, either wait for Tara/Haru/Sancataphrax to chime in or go to the sticky law threads.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 12, 2016, 07:47:08 PM
Awesome.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 12, 2016, 07:49:19 PM
I don't pretend to know the nuances of the Laws of magic.  Usually it's whoever cast the spell.

Also, maybe just a typo blackstaff, but it's Taran (http://prydain.wikia.com/wiki/Taran), not Tara...
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on September 13, 2016, 03:54:30 AM
I don't pretend to know the nuances of the Laws of magic.  Usually it's whoever cast the spell.

Also, maybe just a typo blackstaff, but it's Taran (http://prydain.wikia.com/wiki/Taran), not Tara...
Oh my word, you are correct.  My apologies.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 13, 2016, 05:45:50 AM
How powerful is Thamaturgy exactly and do I need to be a full wizard to do it or no?

As powerful as the GM lets it be, and no. You just need the Thaumaturgy power.

The laws of magic only applies to those who only use magic correct?

Generally, yes. Laws one through six can only be broken by casting spells. And they don't apply to demons, or faeries, or other such things. Some would even say that they only apply to people with non-Sponsored magic.

The one possible exception is the Seventh Law. As Your Story says on page 244, "the Seventh Law is the only one on the books that isn't conditioned upon casting a spell".

You shouldn't make non-spellcasters take the Lawbreaker power, but I think it's reasonable to inflict some corrupting effects, like Aspect changes, on non-casters who reach Outside.

For more info, either wait for Tara/Haru/Sancataphrax to chime in or go to the sticky law threads.

This might sound weird, but please don't defer to me.

Forum communities are cliquey by nature and it's common for them to devolve into informal hierarchies. Which isn't healthy. I've seen posters become genuinely worse people because online social status went to their heads.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Haru on September 13, 2016, 11:34:20 AM
The laws of magic only applies to those who only use magic correct?
That's going to depend on you and your group and how you want to interpret the laws.

To me, there's 2 sides to the laws.

1) The Wardens. If they suspect you broke a law, they will act. It doesn't matter much if you DID break the law, if they suspect you did, you are in trouble. You can probably get away if you can prove innocence or some technicality, but first they will hunt you down.

2) The mental impact. Even if the Wardens don't know what you did or you are out of their jurisdiction (by using sponsored magic, for example), using magic in a certain way will probably have an impact on you, no matter where it comes from. You are wielding the power, you choose what the power is supposed to do, you deem right what the power does, twisting the power this way changes you.
There are ways around it, as well. Your sponsor could insulate you from the effect, for example, but that will come back to bite you in another way for sure.

When you do a spell that can break the law, either or both of those could apply. A Warden might want to talk to you for a spell that didn't affect you mentally, or a spell might affect you that doesn't even make it on the Warden's radar. Or both.

When it comes to using it in play, the important part is always: choose what you think will be fun. Just because someone broke the law doesn't necessarily mean they need to take the lawbreaker stunt, for example. There are other ways to deal with this, especially since the Lawbreaker can often mean the NPCness of a player character.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 14, 2016, 06:10:39 AM
How is sponsored magic out of their jurisdiction?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 14, 2016, 01:21:30 PM
How is sponsored magic out of their jurisdiction?

It's not your magic, it's your sponsor's and your magic has to be in line with the sponsor.  Like wielding Death Magic because you are sponsored by the god of the dead.  You wouldn't get Lawbreaker for killing people with magic because that's part of his portfolio and you are carrying out his agenda.  Most people play the game that the sponsor protects you from the spiritual corruption since it's not your own magic.

I'm not sure where this is 100% proof.  I think it's just a common interpretation of sponsored magic.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Haru on September 14, 2016, 03:36:40 PM
How is sponsored magic out of their jurisdiction?
For one, the reason Taran describes. A sponsor could simply shield your mind from corruption.

But when it comes to the Wardens, they would not only have to deal with you, but with your sponsor as well. Worst case, this would start trouble in the politics of the supernatural community. They could go through the channels of the unseelie accords, but if it's not a mortal wizard, they can't claim jurisdiction over them. The supernatural world is big on stuff like this.
In fact, in some cases, you could interpret a wielder of sponsored magic as the sword of the sponsor. He is no more liable for his actions than a sword would be, at least where supernatural politics are concerned.

But this doesn't mean they are immune to it all. They could well take a lawbreaker stunt without the Wardens being able to touch them.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on September 14, 2016, 03:59:16 PM
For one, the reason Taran describes. A sponsor could simply shield your mind from corruption.

But when it comes to the Wardens, they would not only have to deal with you, but with your sponsor as well. Worst case, this would start trouble in the politics of the supernatural community. They could go through the channels of the unseelie accords, but if it's not a mortal wizard, they can't claim jurisdiction over them. The supernatural world is big on stuff like this.
In fact, in some cases, you could interpret a wielder of sponsored magic as the sword of the sponsor. He is no more liable for his actions than a sword would be, at least where supernatural politics are concerned.

But this doesn't mean they are immune to it all. They could well take a lawbreaker stunt without the Wardens being able to touch them.
At your tables perhaps the Wardens act that way.  Any Warden that sees someone using magic to take a life, be it Outsider, Fomorian, Hellfire, Summer/Winter, etc., is STILL going to see a murderer and will closely question that caster, assuming he doesn't kill the caster right off the bat just to make sure.  YES, the Sponsor may shield them from the cosmic hit of Lawbreaker; no, they will not go to bat to protect the idiot so crass as to use it to kill or otherwise break the Seven Laws.

That's how I'd rule at my table, anyway. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 14, 2016, 04:02:42 PM
Not every sponsor-wielding person is protected by the accords either.  Wardens will happily kill/stop anyone threatening human lives.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on September 14, 2016, 05:01:51 PM
At your tables perhaps the Wardens act that way.  Any Warden that sees someone using magic to take a life, be it Outsider, Fomorian, Hellfire, Summer/Winter, etc., is STILL going to see a murderer and will closely question that caster, assuming he doesn't kill the caster right off the bat just to make sure.  YES, the Sponsor my shield them from the cosmic hit of Lawbreaker; no, they will not go to bat to protect the idiot so crass as to use it to kill or otherwise break the Seven Laws.

That's how I'd rule at my table, anyway.
How would you view the loophole we've seen in the novels with Binder?  He's known to summon creatures and then order them to kill, but that bare degree of separation keeps him clear of the Wardens Justice (if not off their radar).
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on September 14, 2016, 05:05:47 PM
How would you view the loophole we've seen in the novels with Binder?  He's known to summon creatures and then order them to kill, but that bare degree of separation keeps him clear of the Wardens Justice (if not off their radar).
Simple.  The moment Binder ordered the creatures to break the Laws, Lawbreaker.  Might have it already but for an editing error.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Haru on September 14, 2016, 05:18:03 PM
At your tables perhaps the Wardens act that way.  Any Warden that sees someone using magic to take a life, be it Outsider, Fomorian, Hellfire, Summer/Winter, etc., is STILL going to see a murderer and will closely question that caster, assuming he doesn't kill the caster right off the bat just to make sure.  YES, the Sponsor may shield them from the cosmic hit of Lawbreaker; no, they will not go to bat to protect the idiot so crass as to use it to kill or otherwise break the Seven Laws.

That's how I'd rule at my table, anyway.
Oh, absolutely. In the heat of the moment, things can get messy very fast. A Warden is bound to react that way, when he sees someone murder with magic. But in other situations, where it isn't quite as immediate, things can get political. Not a lot of wardens are going to like this, but what else is new?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on September 14, 2016, 06:41:52 PM
Simple.  The moment Binder ordered the creatures to break the Laws, Lawbreaker.  Might have it already but for an editing error.

(click to show/hide)
Not disagreeing with the Lawbreaker, but there's some grey area between Lawbreaker and instant execution by a warden.  Harry said in TC that Binder has always "careful not to break any of the Laws of Magic, so the Wardens haven’t ever been able to take him down."  Give that one of the things he apparently gets hired for is as an instant army capable of "trigger work" it seems that he's found such a loophole.  In his case, nobody dies by magic, they die by guns fired by creatures that were summoned with Magic. As I understand it such a thing still ought to cause the twisting of the soul side of things, but make it past the secular WC legality side.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Blackmako on September 14, 2016, 08:41:51 PM
I thought the role of the summer/winter knight was in part to kill humans? Harry references historical figures of terror that were Winter Knights. Slade was very definitely a ruthless and brutal murderer. The White Council does not represent as the defenders of humanity for the Accords. So I don't see how Wardens could/dare to police the knights as they work Seelie/Unseelie magic. You really think a Winter Knight who did not start as a wizard would hesitate to kill with magic? Harry certainly blew an ogre to bits in a horrific fashion to make an example as a knight, implying winter influence.

Just as Lawbreaker caps Wizards, the Sponsor should be sending thematic compels that are from dangerous to inconvenient. If memory serves Harry almost raped due to the predatory influence of Winter. Game mechanics wise I'd see that as a huge compel. Give me a fate point or get a fate point for indulging Winter. I see it as a GM obligation to throw narrative curveballs at sponsored magic. The Magic urges use to its agenda. The knights who play in my game go through constant grief due to the fae in the form of inner compels or blatant sponsor saying do this or else. The way I see it a Sponsor would eyeball when a knight is near mentally consequenced out to push its will.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on September 14, 2016, 09:35:32 PM
I thought the role of the summer/winter knight was in part to kill humans? Harry references historical figures of terror that were Winter Knights. Slade was very definitely a ruthless and brutal murderer. The White Council does not represent as the defenders of humanity for the Accords. So I don't see how Wardens could/dare to police the knights as they work Seelie/Unseelie magic. You really think a Winter Knight who did not start as a wizard would hesitate to kill with magic? Harry certainly blew an ogre to bits in a horrific fashion to make an example as a knight, implying winter influence.
They dont, as a legal matter, police the actions of the Knights are outside their jurisdiction, in the same way Molly is now outside their reach.  But then Harry says he may well be the first Knight that was a wizard first and who maintains membership, which puts him into an awkward grey area.

Also, the Council is in no way "The Defender's of Humanity for the Accords".  They are a nation under the accords, and take it upon themselves to police mortals' use of magic per the 7 Laws. But they have no rights or claims to Humanity as a whole.  The only reason they were able spin it in WN was because he walked in just as the Wamps were bragging about how the mortals they were killing was direct, if circuitous, attack on the White Council.  They dont even have, in normal circumstances, claim the practitioners that are not in their membership (which was a key point in SK when the Merlin wanted to strip him of standing)
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: rientelfon on September 14, 2016, 11:41:02 PM
Quick Question and Easy Answer I Hope:

Say a Wizard casts a Darkness Spell using Spirit Magic, is there any defense for this? From my understanding it would be manipulating the actual light in the room so there is no resistance to this spell that I can find.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on September 15, 2016, 03:24:50 AM
Not disagreeing with the Lawbreaker, but there's some grey area between Lawbreaker and instant execution by a warden.  Harry said in TC that Binder has always "careful not to break any of the Laws of Magic, so the Wardens haven’t ever been able to take him down."  Give that one of the things he apparently gets hired for is as an instant army capable of "trigger work" it seems that he's found such a loophole.  In his case, nobody dies by magic, they die by guns fired by creatures that were summoned with Magic. As I understand it such a thing still ought to cause the twisting of the soul side of things, but make it past the secular WC legality side.

Thoughts?
Touche.  That said, so much for a simple answer.  ;D  Perhaps this should be a sticky thread?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on September 15, 2016, 03:30:25 AM
Not disagreeing with the Lawbreaker, but there's some grey area between Lawbreaker and instant execution by a warden.  Harry said in TC that Binder has always "careful not to break any of the Laws of Magic, so the Wardens haven’t ever been able to take him down."  Give that one of the things he apparently gets hired for is as an instant army capable of "trigger work" it seems that he's found such a loophole.  In his case, nobody dies by magic, they die by guns fired by creatures that were summoned with Magic. As I understand it such a thing still ought to cause the twisting of the soul side of things, but make it past the secular WC legality side.

Thoughts?
Touche. :D  Look, I admit to running a somewhat conservative game regarding LoM (but without playing "Gotcha!"  Players and I agree, we hate that).  Barring further data from Evil Hat or the novels themselves, I'm sticking with it.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 15, 2016, 04:17:40 AM
Quick Question and Easy Answer I Hope:

Say a Wizard casts a Darkness Spell using Spirit Magic, is there any defense for this? From my understanding it would be manipulating the actual light in the room so there is no resistance to this spell that I can find.

Sounds like a block or a maneuver to create a scene aspect. Either way, there's probably no defense. But that's not because it's a special kind of spell, just because blocks and scene maneuvers aren't defended against.

In some situations people can "defend" against attempts to put an Aspect on yourself or the scene by shooting at you or otherwise interfering with you. The relevant rules here are on page 207 of Your Story.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 15, 2016, 04:21:47 AM
Quick Question and Easy Answer I Hope:

Say a Wizard casts a Darkness Spell using Spirit Magic, is there any defense for this? From my understanding it would be manipulating the actual light in the room so there is no resistance to this spell that I can find.

It really depends how the maneuver is being created and It depends what is creating the light in the room.  Is it electricity?  Just hex it.
Is it natural light streaming in from outside?  That will be considerably harder to remove with a spirit evocation.
Is it a torch?  That's pretty easy.

It's a scene aspect, so the difficulty depends on what you are trying to do.  No-one can really resist it except in the case where another character has control of the light.  Maybe someone is holding a large flash-light and you use spirit to smash the bulb.  The character holding the flashlight could dodge the maneuver.

I might let someone resist a maneuver if they are in a position to hinder the wizard themselves.  maybe they have the wizard in an "ARM LOCK".  This could make it difficult to cast.

edit:
ninja'd by sanctaphrax
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on September 17, 2016, 04:23:30 PM
My past interpretation of skill rolls is that you only get ONE reroll attempt and that's that.  Any further expenditure of FP's only results in additional adds to the 2nd roll, going by the YS example of Mouse's Stealth attempt.  Correct?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Haru on September 17, 2016, 04:50:38 PM
I usually let people reroll as often as they like. They usually don't want to reroll more often than once, because a +2 is a safe bet and if they have enough points left to spend, they'd rather do that. But I don't think there's a rule against it. As long as you can invoke enough additional aspects, you should be fine.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 17, 2016, 04:56:40 PM
Yeah, I'd allow multiple re rolls as long as they have multiple aspects they can invoke.  You can't just invoke the same aspect over and over. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 18, 2016, 02:27:31 AM
If I wanted to build a feet in the water version of Jared Kincaid, how would it be done?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 18, 2016, 02:48:33 AM
That's probably not a simple question
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 18, 2016, 05:21:28 AM
Ahh, sorry. New question, what did they mean by water being able to ground out magic? As in if a house was surrounded by water, like a moat or something of that sort. If someone were to cast a spell, does that mean it will not work?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on September 18, 2016, 07:04:47 AM
If I wanted to build a feet in the water version of Jared Kincaid, how would it be done?

Jr Kincaid aka “The Hellpuppy”

High Concept: Inhuman Mercenary
Trouble: The Job Comes First
Other Aspects: The Hellpuppy; As Human As You Are; Technology Is The Great Equalizer

Powers:
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch: Cold Iron, Silver and Holy Items [+3]

Stunts:
Target-Rich Environment (Guns): +1 to attacks with Guns whenever personally outnumbered in a firefight.

Occultist (Magical Countermeasures) (Lore): Kincaid gains a +2 to Lore rolls made involving his knowledge of magical defenses & countermeasures.

Skills:
Great (+4): Athletics (5 w/ Inhuman Spd, Guns (5 if outnumbered)

Good (+3): Fists, Stealth

Fair (+2): Alertness (Initiative 6), Lore (Magical Defenses and Countermeasures 4)

Average (+1): Conviction, Endurance, Intimidation, Might

Stress: Physical OOO[OO] Armor 1, Mental OOO, Social OO

Total Refresh: 6
Spent Refresh: -5
Leftover Refresh: 1
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 18, 2016, 11:46:49 AM
The writeup is super helpful, thank you so much and can you please tell me how do I determine how much refresh do I get from my catch? I need to show my dm as proof because quite frankly he is a hard ass. Example, he tried to tell me that the catch: cold iron is probably only 2 refresh. Where I have seen on this forum that people usually get +3 refresh, I even saw in book 2 that some creatures got +3. Which is confusing because Book one is not the most clearest material in the world. Or if its only 2 then I can live with that.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on September 18, 2016, 01:57:35 PM
...can you please tell me how do I determine how much refresh do I get from my catch? I need to show my dm as proof because quite frankly he is a hard ass. Example, he tried to tell me that the catch: cold iron is probably only 2 refresh. Where I have seen on this forum that people usually get +3 refresh, I even saw in book 2 that some creatures got +3. Which is confusing because Book one is not the most clearest material in the world. Or if its only 2 then I can live with that.

Start with a value of 0.

Part 1: How common is the Catch?


Part 2: How easy is it to research the Catch? (this value stacks with part 1)


If there are multiple vulnerabilities, I use the values for the most common and easiest to learn (example: Vampires are vulnerable to Sunlight (common), True Faith/Holy Items (rare), Fire (common), and stakes to the heart (common).  This is common knowledge.  This would be worth 4 in my opinion.

Remember that a Catch can only reduce the combined cost of Toughness and Recovery to one, so if you have a Red Court with Inhuman Toughness and Inhuman Recovery, but the vulnerabilities listed above, those vulnerabilities would only reduce the cost by 3 points instead of 4. 

Some of the values may differ from game to game.  If you can buy a rosary from a church gift shop and it is treated as a holy object, it makes holy items more common, for example (in my game holy water and other "casual" blessings only makes an item stay holy until sundown or sunrise, but something that is built with a more powerful faith ritual by someone with True Faith can retain the Holy trait).  If your campaign takes place in a city with a silver mine nearby, maybe silver is easily available, and inherited silver might be more common.

I hope this helps.[/list][/list]
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 18, 2016, 04:58:37 PM
Nice Shaft, you covered everything very clearly.

I just wanted to point this out:

Quote
If the vulnerability can only be deduced from personal knowledge, the bonus is +2 in addition to the value for how common it is (Example: No one ever knew that the Noose that Nicodemus wears could be used to attack him, until Harry made a lucky guess).

Do you mean +0?

Quote from: ghostfreak
New question, what did they mean by water being able to ground out magic? As in if a house was surrounded by water, like a moat or something of that sort. If someone were to cast a spell, does that mean it will not work?

I think you can just assign it a threshold value like you would for a house.  Maybe spells passing over and monsters passing through it are weakened.

I'm not sure if you have to be physically in the water, though, or if having the body of water present does anything.

You could also use it as an aspect, like the 'broken water pipe' example they use in YS.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on September 18, 2016, 06:52:12 PM
Nice Shaft, you covered everything very clearly... I just wanted to point this out: Do you mean +0?

Thanks.  I corrected this in the original.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 18, 2016, 10:03:48 PM
Thank you very much for making it clear for me. Now to print this out and hand it to my dm.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 21, 2016, 11:00:36 PM
The tracing ability that Sanctaphrax managed to narrow down perfectly. The one where you can basically create your own weapons and the like. If I was to use it to make a sword and kill someone with it, does that count as me breaking the laws of magic or no?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 22, 2016, 03:04:28 AM
Only if you are modelling it as spellcasting. 

Let's say you are playing a wizard who is super good at summoning.  You summon something that kills someone, (like dropping an anvil on their head - although I'm not sure that's possible with tracing -  it's probably lawbreaking.

But, if you are a wizard who summons mundane weapons that they then use to hack people to bits, then probably not lawbreaking. 

If you are a super hero with an innate ability to conjure knives of force, then no lawbreaking because it's not spellcasting at all.

Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 22, 2016, 05:27:02 AM
Tracing isn't a spellcasting Power, so the Lawbreaker Power isn't appropriate. By default, I wouldn't expect the Laws to apply at all. But if you and your GM want to use Aspect-based corruption with Tracing Lawbreaking (a rhyme!) then that ought to work nicely. At least for the First Law; hard to see how you could break the others with Tracing.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 25, 2016, 01:06:48 PM
Can bullets be deflected with a high enough weapons stat from a sword if I roll high enough or would I have to create a stunt to do so? Or how would that work exactly?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: dragoonbuster on September 25, 2016, 08:39:20 PM
You would definitely need a stunt to do that, since Weapons trappings don't let you defend against ranged attacks by default.

Frankly, I'd also require you have at least Inhuman Speed on top of that and a good Aspect + reasoning. Bullets coming out of most common handguns tend to travel in the several hundreds of meters per second range of velocities, and those coming out of rifles can get up around pr over a kilometer per second.

If you're playing a more cinematic or superhero style game I might not be as strict on the justification.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 26, 2016, 12:14:51 AM
I have weapons skill:5, inhuman speed and an aspect; crazy prepared. Is that good enough?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 26, 2016, 12:17:09 AM
You still need a stunt to move dodging to weapons.  And it can only work while you have your weapon in your hand.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 26, 2016, 03:16:51 AM
Frankly, I'd also require you have at least Inhuman Speed on top of that and a good Aspect + reasoning. Bullets coming out of most common handguns tend to travel in the several hundreds of meters per second range of velocities, and those coming out of rifles can get up around pr over a kilometer per second.

You shouldn't. One of the sample stunts lets you defend against bullets with Fists.

And anyway, the ranged combat rules aren't on speaking terms with reality. Someone's athletic abilities don't actually do much determine how hard it is to shoot them, range and cover do.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on September 26, 2016, 01:27:35 PM
So how do I go about making this stunt a reality? An I gave never seen a stunt where I can use fist to block such a thing.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on September 26, 2016, 06:32:42 PM
So how do I go about making this stunt a reality? An I gave never seen a stunt where I can use fist to block such a thing.

Quote from: YS pg: 152
Footwork: You’re fast on your feet and have
been in enough fistfights to know how to make
yourself a hard target. You may use Fists to
dodge attacks instead of Athletics, in all the
circumstances where Athletics might apply
(page 121).

You spend 1 refresh to buy this stunt.  You have it apply to your weapons skill instead of Fists.  You should stipulate that you need a weapon in hand for it to apply.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on September 26, 2016, 06:37:33 PM
So that's how Wonder Woman does it...
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on October 03, 2016, 01:16:07 PM
Can Knights of the cross take up inhuman powers or no? If not, why?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 03, 2016, 03:12:15 PM
yes, provided he has justification.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on October 03, 2016, 05:14:05 PM
Out of curiosity, outside of the ones that Evilhat has provided, are there other campaign case files that have been made?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 04, 2016, 02:22:33 AM
Check out the Adventures section of this thread (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,37903.0.html).
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on October 05, 2016, 03:17:33 PM
What counts as cold iron or what exactly is it?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: khadgar4606 on October 05, 2016, 04:29:58 PM
can someone like bob cast spells with sponsored magic trait
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on October 05, 2016, 05:09:02 PM
What counts as cold iron or what exactly is it?
Any metal with significant iron content, so various steel alloys qualify.  It's not a special material in and of itself, as it is in other settings or in traditional DnD games.   
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 05, 2016, 08:42:02 PM
can someone like bob cast spells with sponsored magic trait

As far as I know Bob is not a spellcaster. But there's no particular reason that a similar spirit couldn't be one.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on October 06, 2016, 12:15:07 PM
Bob's definitely done some specific magic tricks, though they all are one the less tangible Spirit side of things, by and large, like controlling host bodies (animate or inanimate) or shielding people from spiritual attacks.  Though he apparently can access the spells laid into magic objects and control/enhance them to some degree, and Evil-bob was able to cast a necromantic attack once, as well manipulate the NN enough to set up defenses to a particular location.  All this to say that there is, I think, a dividing line between what he can do and what is available to a full spellcaster, but Im not sure where that line would fall, and it could likely be different for another spirit like him.

My bigger question with Sponsored Magic would be to wonder what the Sponsor would be getting out of it from a Spirit like that, can such a creature develop the sort of debt that would interest the sponsor, and how would they have to go about repaying it.  It would be complicated for bob, but maybe not as much for a spirit that is not Bound to the skull and the will of it's owner the way bob is.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: narphoenix on October 06, 2016, 02:21:58 PM
Bob is definitely capable of doing some things, but I'm not sure I'd give him full spellcasting.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on October 12, 2016, 12:38:39 PM
With supernatural senses, where it says I have a wide range of senses (up to 12) does this mean if I want too I can have senses similar to Daredevil?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 12, 2016, 01:28:44 PM
With supernatural senses, where it says I have a wide range of senses (up to 12) does this mean if I want too I can have senses similar to Daredevil?

I find the description of Supernatural Senses a bit ambiguous.

I'd say that Daredevil has 'echolocation'.   Which, essentially, lets him hear so well he can see.  To me, that's one sense.

hmmm....although, he has a great sense of smell and touch too.

In any case, yes, you can have senses like Daredevil which let him automatically see through mundane disguises, recognize people, chemicals etc...

You should be careful though because the things he can do are pretty powerful...like detecting lies by listening to people's heart-rates.  I'm not sure how I'd adjudicate that.  But it'd be one of the 12 senses.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on October 12, 2016, 01:43:44 PM


You should be careful though because the things he can do are pretty powerful...like detecting lies by listening to people's heart-rates.  I'm not sure how I'd adjudicate that.  But it'd be one of the 12 senses.
A Trapping of the Empathy skill dependent on whether or not the target was a beating heart?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 12, 2016, 01:56:52 PM
A Trapping of the Empathy skill dependent on whether or not the target was a beating heart?

Or letting you detect lies with Alertness instead of Empathy?  Is that how supernatural senses works?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on October 12, 2016, 02:24:26 PM
I find the description of Supernatural Senses a bit ambiguous.

I'd say that Daredevil has 'echolocation'.   Which, essentially, lets him hear so well he can see.  To me, that's one sense.

hmmm....although, he has a great sense of smell and touch too.
fwiw, in the Nextflix show version, it's described as all his other senses working together and giving him a more unified 3d perception based on sound but also smell and the touch of air currents and whatnot, so they at least played it as broader in source than pure echolocation.  That approach especially makes sense if we are talking about some supernatural predator or other PC that could be expected to incorporate other senses like Smell naturally into their survival strategy. 

Quote
In any case, yes, you can have senses like Daredevil which let him automatically see through mundane disguises, recognize people, chemicals etc...

You should be careful though because the things he can do are pretty powerful...like detecting lies by listening to people's heart-rates.  I'm not sure how I'd adjudicate that.  But it'd be one of the 12 senses.
Or letting you detect lies with Alertness instead of Empathy?  Is that how supernatural senses works?
That would make sense to me. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on October 12, 2016, 02:52:07 PM
Would something like this be able to bypass glamors and or stealth?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on October 12, 2016, 02:55:28 PM
Would something like this be able to bypass glamors and or stealth?
I'd say it depends on the quality of Glamor and/or stealth.  A glamour or stealth ability that incorporated all senses, or worked by mental manipulation, would probably function against it.  But if it were all visual this ability might get around it. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 12, 2016, 03:14:18 PM
You might be able to pierce something like human guise because I imagine a ghoul's metabolism is different than a humans.   Or realize a black court vampire isn't a regular human since they don't have a heart beat. 

An illusion probably wouldn't work but greater glamour would.

Regular stealth that relies on darkness definitely would t work.  Even stealth that uses cover would be useless since you could hear them or smell them.  If they can, somehow, work around those other senses, then it would be fine. 

Regarding veils:  a block is a block is a block.  It would cover all senses.  But a Mage with "illusionist" as an aspect could receive a compel to say their veil doesn't cover smell or sound thus allowing daredevil to spot them.   So those would be on a case per case situation. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Anubissama on October 16, 2016, 11:16:47 AM
Can you make a Black Court PC?

All there powers seem to be in the Rule Book (Living Dead, Spider Walk, Supernatural Sense,Cloak of Shadows, Domination, Feeding Dependency etc.), and there are Red Court Infected and White Court Virgin template, seems the only thing keeping you from making a PC is the technicality that there is no middle-stage that you could call "human" and with Free Will.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: khadgar4606 on October 16, 2016, 03:04:03 PM
small question lets say harry mixes soulfire and hellfire in same spell to attack bad guy of the book. what happens they fizzle each other or somehow harry learns how to create universe

for experiment harry has lash(lashciel's shadow ) with him
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ulfgeir on October 16, 2016, 04:05:35 PM
small question lets say harry mixes soulfire and hellfire in same spell to attack bad guy of the book. what happens they fizzle each other or somehow harry learns how to create universe

for experiment harry has lash(lashciel's shadow ) with him

If I understand it correctly (based on an old WoJ) then you can't mix them. They are 2 sides of the same coin, and only one type can be used at the same time. Besides, Harry does no longer have access to Hellfire.

/Ulfgeir
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on October 16, 2016, 04:52:23 PM
How does one get around a white court vampire's incite emotion ability? An how can one protect themselves from such a potent ability?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on October 16, 2016, 04:56:34 PM
Sorry for double post. Also how does one get past or across a magical block without relying on magic, if possible.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 16, 2016, 08:42:06 PM
Can you make a Black Court PC?

All there powers seem to be in the Rule Book (Living Dead, Spider Walk, Supernatural Sense,Cloak of Shadows, Domination, Feeding Dependency etc.), and there are Red Court Infected and White Court Virgin template, seems the only thing keeping you from making a PC is the technicality that there is no middle-stage that you could call "human" and with Free Will.

The minimum Refresh cost for a BCV is 14, which is too much even for Submerged.

Of course, that shouldn't stop a group from hacking something together if they want to do so.

small question lets say harry mixes soulfire and hellfire in same spell to attack bad guy of the book. what happens they fizzle each other or somehow harry learns how to create universe

for experiment harry has lash(lashciel's shadow ) with him

Entirely up to the GM and group.

Creating universes seems kinda crazy to me, though, so I wouldn't go with that.

How does one get around a white court vampire's incite emotion ability? An how can one protect themselves from such a potent ability?

If they lack the range upgrade, don't let them touch you. Failing that, shore up your mental defenses.

Ultimately, though, the best defense against attacks is to kill the attacker. It's as true for Incite Emotion as it is for a gun.

Sorry for double post. Also how does one get past or across a magical block without relying on magic, if possible.

Bigger numbers. Invoke a bunch of Aspects, use Stunts and Powers to get big numbers on skill rolls, and/or hope for a good roll.

Magical blocks are like other blocks, you overcome them by rolling higher.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 17, 2016, 12:42:06 AM
How does one get around a white court vampire's incite emotion ability? An how can one protect themselves from such a potent ability?

It depends on the vampire how potent it is.  Besides, it's only potent against people with low discipline the same way swords are potent against people with low Athletics.

Magic works very well to block against mental attacks.  A magic item or spirit block would work well.

An item that might be anathema to the vampire (like a wedding ring against a lust vampire) could be used to invoke their High Concept and make them back off or run away.

Yes, killing the vampire works too.

Sorry for double post. Also how does one get past or across a magical block without relying on magic, if possible.

A magical (or any block) must state what it's blocking

If it's blocking attacks, then a high enough attack rating will break the block.  Sprinting or any other action is unhindered by this kind of block.

A block against movement (or a zone border) is countered by trying to sprint through it. A high enough sprint roll bypasses it.  (or if it's a magical wall, something with Wings could just fly over it, obviously)

If a wizard puts up an 8 shift block (against attacks)on themselves and it lasts 2 exchanges, PC 1 can do an athletics Maneuver vs the wizards athletics to "flank" the wizard.  PC 2 can do Fists maneuver against the Wizard's athletics or Might or Fists to "Trip" the Wizard.  PC 3 can attack with his +4 Weapons attack.  If he rolls an average of 4, then tags the 2 aspects, his total roll is an 8, which is enough to beat the block.  He does weapon damage (since his has no extra shifts) and the Wizard's block is taken down.

Really, this is how a party should take down most tough opponents, weather or not they have magical blocks up.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on October 17, 2016, 12:49:40 PM
The minimum Refresh cost for a BCV is 14, which is too much even for Submerged.

Of course, that shouldn't stop a group from hacking something together if they want to do so.
Now Im curious.  Have you ever put together a PC Blampire?  I could have some fun kicking around stats for a BCV-lite. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 17, 2016, 01:09:59 PM
Now Im curious.  Have you ever put together a PC Blampire?  I could have some fun kicking around stats for a BCV-lite.

I could see some kind of blampire where the transformation was halted or the victim, somehow, survived and kept a semblance of humanity.

That's how I'd spin it.  Then give them some of the powers of a Blampire. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on October 17, 2016, 01:32:41 PM
I could see some kind of blampire where the transformation was halted or the victim, somehow, survived and kept a semblance of humanity.

That's how I'd spin it.  Then give them some of the powers of a Blampire.
I was thinking either that direction, as some sort of half-Blamp (maybe go Blade with it and make it a child who's mother was turned), or else maybe a PC with a very limited Sponsor agreement that holds the Blampire at bay and keeps a shred of their Humanity intact.  In the latter case they'd treat the Blampire Powers as something that they can access via Sponsored Magic mechanics, but with the normal range of restrictions and consequences for using them too much. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on October 18, 2016, 03:13:06 AM
What does might over magic do exactly? I've heard the name of the ability mentioned before but has no idea of what it can do.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 19, 2016, 07:13:17 AM
What does might over magic do exactly? I've heard the name of the ability mentioned before but has no idea of what it can do.

It lets you break magical effects physically. Its creator asked that it not be included on the wiki, but you can see it here (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25794.msg1872956.html#msg1872956).

Now Im curious.  Have you ever put together a PC Blampire?  I could have some fun kicking around stats for a BCV-lite.

Nope. Some NPCs, but no PCs.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on October 19, 2016, 12:15:52 PM
Nope. Some NPCs, but no PCs.
Ill have to wait until I get home (or find my pdf's) but I think I want to start a new thread to chase this idea.   :)
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on October 23, 2016, 01:17:12 AM
I have an idea for a character based on Moon Knight who is the champion of Khonshu, an Egyptian moon god.  He would have Inhuman Strength, Speed, Toughness and Recovery as well as Cloak of Shadows, but only at night.  I suspect that assigning these powers under Human Form would be appropriate to get a 1 point Refresh reduction on the abilities, but could/should I also say that the circumstances are "Rare" to reflect the fact that these powers are only available at night (and get a further 1 point Refresh reduction in addition to the one above).

Can I also let the character take the Catch (only at night) on his Toughness/Recovery Powers that can be discovered/deduced with access to rare texts once the sponsor is known for an additional reduction on top of the Human Form bonus?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Cadd on October 23, 2016, 03:20:03 AM
Should work. In fact, Toughness and Recovery should generally have a Catch attached, though being only periodically availabe can be enough.
I think there are statblocks in OW with both Human Form and The Catch, check the Werewolf section...

The Catch can be valued at the most at +3 (since it's attached to -4 worth of abilities), and can of course be worth less. Just follow the regular guidelines for it.
Side note: Make sure to clear with the GM how you're going to handle Recovery; there's no clear RAW about how it works whem not permanent.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Cadd on October 23, 2016, 03:37:49 AM
Sorry for double post, editing is a pain on my phone.

You may also consider not going with "At Night" for the powers. It can be even more interesting with "When the moon is visible in the sky" - this period is roughly 12h no matter time of year (day/night can vary a lot st higher latitudes) and is sometimes during the day.

There's also the New Moon, when the moon is up, but not really visible...
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Nepene on October 23, 2016, 02:38:27 PM
You could make him have a catch of the sun. That would make sense given their nature, and give you a substantial rebate. Or of things like sunstones, or similar artifacts that are related to the sun.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: dragoonbuster on October 23, 2016, 06:11:58 PM
Can I also let the character take the Catch (only at night) on his Toughness/Recovery Powers that can be discovered/deduced with access to rare texts once the sponsor is known for an additional reduction on top of the Human Form bonus?

ALL PCs with Recovery or Toughness need to attach a Catch of some kind at my table. You don't "get" to take one, you must take one, because there's a silver bullet for literally everything supernatural in the Dresdenverse, it's just a matter of figuring it out and getting a hold of it.

As far as Human Form and Catch rebates...they're just completely separate things. If both are appropriate, you get both. Human Form is for when you *don't* have some powers 'normally' and *do* get them in some shapeshifted or conditional situation. Whatever your Catch is, the rebate it provides still can't reduce the total costs of Toughness/Recovery below -1, and ALL the powers attached to Human Form must add to overall cost -1. Here are some examples:

Good Example - The overall Toughness/Recovery/Catch cost is -1
-2 Inhuman Recovery
-2 Inhuman Toughness
+3 The Catch: Cold Iron

"Not Allowed" Example - The overall Toughness/Recovery/Catch cost is -0. You're not locked out of using Fire, but you would need modulate the bonus down to +3 to make the math legal again for a total -1 cost.
-2 Inhuman Recovery
-2 Inhuman Toughness
+4 The Catch: Fire

"Not Allowed" Example - This isn't allowed because your overall cost here is -0, so you'd have to modulate the cost down to -1 overall on your sheet or buy more powers to stick under Human Form.
+1 Human Form, covering:
-2 Inhuman Recovery
-2 Inhuman Toughness
+3 The Catch: Cold Iron

"Not Allowed" Example - This isn't allowed because while everything attached to Human Form + HF's rebate is -1, you still haven't properly costed your Toughness/Recovery/Catch suite. You have to modulate that cost to -1, making the overall Human Form and associated powers suite a total -2 cost.
+1 Human Form, covering:
-2 Inhuman Strength
-2 Inhuman Recovery
-2 Inhuman Toughness
+4 The Catch: Fire

Good Example - Overall the Toughness/Recovery/Catch suite costs -1, and adding everything attached to Human Form with HF gives me an overall -2 costs, so that's legal as well.
+1 Human Form, covering:
-2 Inhuman Strength
-2 Inhuman Recovery
-2 Inhuman Toughness
+3 The Catch: Cold Iron
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 23, 2016, 06:36:57 PM
ALL PCs with Recovery or Toughness need to attach a Catch of some kind at my table. You don't "get" to take one, you must take one, because there's a silver bullet for literally everything supernatural in the Dresdenverse, it's just a matter of figuring it out and getting a hold of it.

I might say that some catches are so rare that they might as well not have one.  But, in cases like that, they don't get a rebate anyways.

As far as Human Form and Catch rebates...they're just completely separate things. If both are appropriate, you get both. Human Form is for when you *don't* have some powers 'normally' and *do* get them in some shapeshifted or conditional situation. Whatever your Catch is, the rebate it provides still can't reduce the total costs of Toughness/Recovery below -1, and ALL the powers attached to Human Form must add to overall cost -1. Here are some examples:

"Not Allowed" Example - The overall Toughness/Recovery/Catch cost is -0. You're not locked out of using Fire, but you would need modulate the bonus down to +3 to make the math legal again for a total -1 cost.
-2 Inhuman Recovery
-2 Inhuman Toughness
+4 The Catch: Fire

This isn't exactly how I interpret how the rebate works.  It's not that you *can't* have a +4 catch, it's more that the catch can only provide you with a +3 rebate - even if it's valued at +4 -  because you don't have enough refresh spent on toughness/recovery.

So, I'd allow this set-up, but your total powers under the catch would still add up to -1, despite the +4.  If the player upgrades to Supernatural Toughness, the +4 bonus would come into play.

"Not Allowed" Example - This isn't allowed because your overall cost here is -0, so you'd have to modulate the cost down to -1 overall on your sheet or buy more powers to stick under Human Form.
+1 Human Form, covering:
-2 Inhuman Recovery
-2 Inhuman Toughness
+3 The Catch: Cold Iron

Exactly right.

I have an idea for a character based on Moon Knight who is the champion of Khonshu, an Egyptian moon god.  He would have Inhuman Strength, Speed, Toughness and Recovery as well as Cloak of Shadows, but only at night.  I suspect that assigning these powers under Human Form would be appropriate to get a 1 point Refresh reduction on the abilities, but could/should I also say that the circumstances are "Rare" to reflect the fact that these powers are only available at night (and get a further 1 point Refresh reduction in addition to the one above).

Can I also let the character take the Catch (only at night) on his Toughness/Recovery Powers that can be discovered/deduced with access to rare texts once the sponsor is known for an additional reduction on top of the Human Form bonus?

I'd give someone who can only use powers at night, or when the moon is up a +2 ' human form: involuntary change' rebate.

You'd need at least -3 worth of powers there.

If you took toughness/recovery, I could see you having things like 'light' or sunstone as a catch.  Maybe even 'moonstone'.

Khonsu is the god of travel, protection and healing and "light in the Night".  I could see a catch of necromancy and/or entropy being a catch.  Since travel is in his portfolio, perhaps being bound/helpless would be a catch.  So while movement is blocked against him, he loses his toughness.  In fact, his toughness could be skinned that he's so fast, he dodges and is hard to pin with a solid hit.

Time magic might also affect him since he's related to the passage of time.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Cadd on October 23, 2016, 07:37:44 PM
Great examples Dragoonbuster!

A setup like
Code: [Select]
[+2] Human Form: Involuntary Change, covering
 [-1] Cloak of Shadows
 [-2] Inhuman Strength
 [-2] Inhuman Speed
 [-2] Inhuman Toughness
 [-2] Inhuman Recovery
  [+O-3] The Catch: <insert catch here>
is exactly how I meant to suggest it in my first answer. ;)

I would in that case not allow a catch such as "Sunlight", if the Involuntary Change is "At Night" - that would be double dipping. A sun-related material, or as Taran suggests something themed around the Travel aspect of Khonsu would be great!

In general, I'm with Dragoonbuster in that Toughness/Recovery requires a catch, but I can allow another restriction to it instead. This case would actually be a perfect example: Instead of a specific item that bypasses the powers, they're only available at restricted times; Lycanthropes are an example in RAW. Human Form has the benedfit that it also interacts with other powers, something The Catch really can't do. I would however only accept this for the Inhuman levels; Supernatural, Mythic or Physical Immunity are to big to not have an actual catch.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: dragoonbuster on October 23, 2016, 08:42:53 PM
So, I'd allow this set-up, but your total powers under the catch would still add up to -1, despite the +4.  If the player upgrades to Supernatural Toughness, the +4 bonus would come into play.

That's what I mean by "...modulate the rebate down to +3..." but in hindsight it isn't that clear versus how you said it.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 23, 2016, 08:50:36 PM
That's what I mean by "...modulate the rebate down to +3..." but in hindsight it isn't that clear versus how you said it.

I reread your post and it's fairly clear.  I guess I skimmed over that part.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on October 24, 2016, 04:59:09 AM
Great suggestions and observations, everyone.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on October 25, 2016, 01:37:38 PM
Hello! I just have 2 simple questions.

1. During my session on Sunday, I had a player cause 12 stress on the Bridge Troll. The stress bar I think only has a stress count of 10. Since he went over, is that an automatic KO? I want to assume no and that they did that for printing sake.

Story: Wizard Brawler went to attack with Fists (+4) and roll +4 and +1 for hitting trolls. Troll defended with Fists and rolled a -3 for a total of +1. In addition to the +7, he had Weapon:5 (due to lots of strength stats) for a grand total of 13 stress hits, or 12 stress points.

2. I will be running a campaign here in the next couple weeks about the Midnight Man, a creepypasta urban legend come true.  Im wanting to let my players take some initiative and figure it out themselves. In the introduction, I was planning on giving them a 'case file.' Beyond fake newspaper clippings, and some clues in each clipping, what else should I include in it?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on October 25, 2016, 01:49:25 PM
1. During my session on Sunday, I had a player cause 12 stress on the Bridge Troll. The stress bar I think only has a stress count of 10. Since he went over, is that an automatic KO? I want to assume no and that they did that for printing sake.

Story: Wizard Brawler went to attack with Fists (+4) and roll +4 and +1 for hitting trolls. Troll defended with Fists and rolled a -3 for a total of +1. In addition to the +7, he had Weapon:5 (due to lots of strength stats) for a grand total of 13 stress hits, or 12 stress points.

You would have done 12 stress to the Troll, but I assume that the troll had Supernatural Toughness (as well as Inhuman Size) which gives him 2 points of armor, so 10 points would get through.  This would mark off his "10 box", but since the other 9 boxes are still open, he is still in the fight. 

At your discretion, the troll could also take consequences.  If said troll had elected to take a Mild Consequence (which offsets 2 stress), he could have done so and only filled in his "8 box".

If the mage brawler had done 13 points or more (11 points after armor), the troll would have to take a consequence, or be taken out.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Cadd on October 25, 2016, 01:56:55 PM
Hello! I just have 2 simple questions.

1. During my session on Sunday, I had a player cause 12 stress on the Bridge Troll. The stress bar I think only has a stress count of 10. Since he went over, is that an automatic KO? I want to assume no and that they did that for printing sake.

Story: Wizard Brawler went to attack with Fists (+4) and roll +4 and +1 for hitting trolls. Troll defended with Fists and rolled a -3 for a total of +1. In addition to the +7, he had Weapon:5 (due to lots of strength stats) for a grand total of 13 stress hits, or 12 stress points.
I'm not quite following your math here, but if an attack deals more stress than the highest available stress box, the target has two options. Either become Taken Out, the result of which is decided by the attacker. This can be anything narratively appropriate: death, knocked out, taken prisoner, whatever that has the target no longer a part of the conflict.
The other option, if the target wants to stay in the conflict, is to take one or more Consequences to reduce the stress. If in this case the highest available stress box is the tenth, and they're suffering a 12 stress hit, the troll can take a Minor Consequence to reduce the incoming stress by 2, and take the remaining 10 by checking the last stress box. If instead the troll takes a Moderate Consequence (reducing stress by 4), they instead check the 8th stress box.

Edit: As Shaft points out, if there are 10 stress boxes, there is certainly armor involved from Toughness powers, don't forget those.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on October 25, 2016, 03:51:10 PM
I'm not quite following your math here, but if an attack deals more stress than the highest available stress box, the target has two options. Either become Taken Out, the result of which is decided by the attacker. This can be anything narratively appropriate: death, knocked out, taken prisoner, whatever that has the target no longer a part of the conflict.
The other option, if the target wants to stay in the conflict, is to take one or more Consequences to reduce the stress. If in this case the highest available stress box is the tenth, and they're suffering a 12 stress hit, the troll can take a Minor Consequence to reduce the incoming stress by 2, and take the remaining 10 by checking the last stress box. If instead the troll takes a Moderate Consequence (reducing stress by 4), they instead check the 8th stress box.

Edit: As Shaft points out, if there are 10 stress boxes, there is certainly armor involved from Toughness powers, don't forget those.

What I meant is, on the sheet I believe, off the top of my head, there is only 10 stress boxes. I wasnt sure if there was a rule where if it exceeded that before consequences and armor, they would automatically be knocked out.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on October 25, 2016, 04:53:50 PM
Can someone take multiple consequences in the same shot? 

Example: A character has only 1 stress box left, but no consequences. He/she takes 6 points of damage.  Can the character break it up and take two consequences concurrently (one Mild and one Moderate) instead of just one Severe consequence?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 25, 2016, 04:54:58 PM
Can someone take multiple consequences in the same shot? 

Example: A character has only 1 stress box left, but no consequences. He/she takes 6 points of damage.  Can the character break it up and take two consequences concurrently (one Mild and one Moderate) instead of just one Severe consequence?

Yes.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 25, 2016, 10:12:33 PM
2. I will be running a campaign here in the next couple weeks about the Midnight Man, a creepypasta urban legend come true.  Im wanting to let my players take some initiative and figure it out themselves. In the introduction, I was planning on giving them a 'case file.' Beyond fake newspaper clippings, and some clues in each clipping, what else should I include in it?

How about blog posts from "eyewitnesses"?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on October 26, 2016, 12:13:21 PM
How about blog posts from "eyewitnesses"?
Or go full ghost-facers and film some shaky and poorly lit video of a pseudo-encounter?

Id give them access to some wiki article that gives Midnight Man background lore; if there is an existing one that fits that could work otherwise you may want to edit it to fit your scenario. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 26, 2016, 12:31:07 PM
Quote
2. I will be running a campaign here in the next couple weeks about the Midnight Man, a creepypasta urban legend come true.  Im wanting to let my players take some initiative and figure it out themselves. In the introduction, I was planning on giving them a 'case file.' Beyond fake newspaper clippings, and some clues in each clipping, what else should I include in it?

I'd include more than just the Midnight Man.  Add little details of the city and any fun details that the characters can explore.  To make it a bit more of a sand-box

When I started a new campaign, I had an entire front page of a newspaper.  In it I had many leads and foreshadowing of various things going on in the city.  Giving the players lots to look into.  Some things had nothing to do with the main plot - they were side-questy stuff or just introduced important characters in the city.


Every Major story-arch, I did a new newspaper.  I did a similar one for a pbp I ran but the campaign never got past the first arch.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,38321.0.html
As an example.
I had a serial killer who was a phobophage-type villain and I had a First Nations water creature associated with Winter that pulled people under the ice.  Both these appear in the newspaper.  One was a major plot, the other was a side-quest that they I wasn't sure if they'd even get to.  But it gave them the option to take initiative and explore stuff.

A few of the things were character specific.


Or go full ghost-facers and film some shaky and poorly lit video of a pseudo-encounter?

Id give them access to some wiki article that gives Midnight Man background lore; if there is an existing one that fits that could work otherwise you may want to edit it to fit your scenario. 

Add the shaky video to the blog post.  maybe it's something that's circulating around.
How about blog posts from "eyewitnesses"?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on October 26, 2016, 08:38:28 PM
I have a couple more simple questions:

I havent read the books in a while, but was Oberon or the Autumn Courts ever mentioned? If so, has other people ever used them as stories?

In addition, Im trying to also create a storyline for a voodoo 'Shadow Man' (think Princess and the Frog).  What powers would you recommend?

For both as well, do you have any stories suggestions for either of them? Like something extended?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 26, 2016, 08:42:40 PM
Quote
In addition, Im trying to also create a storyline for a voodoo 'Shadow Man' (think Princess and the Frog).  What powers would you recommend

I found a good website.  Here's a good start for your Shadow man.  Baron Samedi (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/caribbean-mythology.php?deity=BARON-SAMEDI)

Edit:
IF you want him as a straight up mortal practitioner, I'd give him sponsored magic with the ability to do transformation at the speed of evocation. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on October 26, 2016, 09:40:34 PM
I havent read the books in a while, but was Oberon or the Autumn Courts ever mentioned? If so, has other people ever used them as stories?

No official mention in the books of the Autumn court, but I have seen some speculation on this site in other threads that Oberon was the Summer Duke and that the Erlking was the Autumn Duke, and that both Courts fell.

This thread from RPGnet might be useful: https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?579537-DFRPG-Fae-Spring-and-Autumn-Courts&s=afbdb559e71ae254ce3648291fe5189a
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on October 26, 2016, 09:54:11 PM
No official mention in the books of the Autumn court, but I have seen some speculation on this site in other threads that Oberon was the Summer Duke and that the Erlking was the Autumn Duke, and that both Courts fell.

This thread from RPGnet might be useful: https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?579537-DFRPG-Fae-Spring-and-Autumn-Courts&s=afbdb559e71ae254ce3648291fe5189a
Per WOJ, Oberon was a mortal that got caught in a love triangle between Mab and Titania and did not survive the experience.  Similarly per WOJ, the Erlking is a Summer King and Santa is a Winter King, but they are still Wyldfae and are not actually part of the two Courts, just like some of the other various wyldfae courts.  They are Summer and Winter in that they have metaphysical roots on that side of things and they are beholden to the Mothers, which was compared to being beholden to gravity.

If you go Here  (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21772.msg947681.html#msg947681)you can see the WOJ's we have on the Fae.  Scroll down a bit to the ones we have on the Kings specifically. 


That being said, there's no reason you couldnt have Spring and Autumn courts in your own game.


Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on October 28, 2016, 02:48:17 PM
Hey everyone!

What are your experiences with "self-compels" and players understanding/not understanding the concept. For me, a self-compel is when the player is knowingly really playing up to their character's aspects, such as mouthing off [Epic Wiseass] to Lady Fox [Unseelie Huntress Turned Nightclub Owner] and the whole time the player knows that doing so is going to cause a lot of problems, so that's definitely worth a fate point.

I've temporarily taken over as GM for the DFRPG group that I'm part of and I'm running a 3-part storyline. Just ran part 1 a few weeks ago and it was mostly a success (I'm often a bit overly critical of my GMing skills), but I had mentioned self-compels to the group, as a way to encourage them to really get into character and as part of my overall discussion of the rules (we'd been playing really, really rules-lite until I took over) and many of the players seemed to think that anytime they're playing their character they should be getting fate points for self-compels. I think it is when you're willingly playing your character in such a way that you're purposefully bringing trouble into your life.

So, from everyone's experience, am I correct with my interpretation? How do your players/fellow players understand or use self-compels? Thanks!
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 28, 2016, 06:43:45 PM
Yes, I think you are correct.

They can RP their characters all day but if that RP doesn't get the characters in to trouble then it's not worth a FP.  When character traits and character aspects cause complications, that's when you reward FPs.

Here's the various ways that I've seen self-compels:

1. Player plays character in a way that gets them into trouble.  GM rewards Player with a FP during or after the scene.
2. Player plays character that gets them into trouble and asks for a FP
3. (This is probably most common) Player is in a situation then suggests a self-compel.  "if I play up aspect 'XYZ' it would sure get them into trouble.  Would that be worth a FP?"

Then the GM and the player work out the the compel and the player goes ahead and plays out the scene with the compel in mind.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Mr. Death on October 28, 2016, 08:12:22 PM
1. Player plays character in a way that gets them into trouble.  GM rewards Player with a FP during or after the scene.
As a GM, I always loved the looks on a player's face when this happened and I just silently slid the poker chip across the table to them mid-scene.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Nepene on October 28, 2016, 08:26:09 PM
Hey everyone!

What are your experiences with "self-compels" and players understanding/not understanding the concept. For me, a self-compel is when the player is knowingly really playing up to their character's aspects, such as mouthing off [Epic Wiseass] to Lady Fox [Unseelie Huntress Turned Nightclub Owner] and the whole time the player knows that doing so is going to cause a lot of problems, so that's definitely worth a fate point.

I've temporarily taken over as GM for the DFRPG group that I'm part of and I'm running a 3-part storyline. Just ran part 1 a few weeks ago and it was mostly a success (I'm often a bit overly critical of my GMing skills), but I had mentioned self-compels to the group, as a way to encourage them to really get into character and as part of my overall discussion of the rules (we'd been playing really, really rules-lite until I took over) and many of the players seemed to think that anytime they're playing their character they should be getting fate points for self-compels. I think it is when you're willingly playing your character in such a way that you're purposefully bringing trouble into your life.

So, from everyone's experience, am I correct with my interpretation? How do your players/fellow players understand or use self-compels? Thanks!

"An aspect can also allow you to gain more fate
points by bringing complications and troubling
circumstances into your character’s life. When
this occurs, it is referred to as compelling the
aspect.

"it limits the
responses available to a character in a certain
situation, it introduces unintended complications into a scene, or it provides the inspiration
for a plot development or a scene hook for that
character."

So you have to play your character in such a way that it produces complications and troubling circumstances and advances the plot.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: dragoonbuster on October 29, 2016, 03:31:03 AM
So you have to play your character in such a way that it produces complications and troubling circumstances and advances the plot.

This. If it doesn't introduce complications to the PC, it isn't a compel.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on October 30, 2016, 10:48:22 PM
If someone wantesld to be able to use haki in your game, how would someone here rule it?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on October 31, 2016, 12:10:18 AM
If someone wantesld to be able to use haki in your game, how would someone here rule it?

First, you have to determine what it does and then you just assign powers.  I don't know anything about it so I had to look it up.

Kenbunshoku Haki sounds like an array of supernatural senses that let you see auras.  It could also be emulated by taking a re-skinned version of Wizard's Sight and Soulgaze.

Busoshoku sounds like toughness....it's says'allows the user to use their spirit as armor to defend against attacks or make their own attacks more potent."

I might say that this is done by taking toughness powers with a Catch of "X number of hits"  because it says that this type is finite and runs out.

It increases attacks too, so maybe claws or Strength powers but it is finite, so I'm not sure how to make it run out.  Limitation, probably.

It could also be done with spirit spellcasting.  Using spell blocks and reskinned enchanted items to protect you and using evocation to attack.  The stress taken from spellcasting would work well for making it finite.

Haoshoku seems to be mental manipulation and could be done with mental spirit spellcasting or incite emotion/incite effect or domination.

If Haki does anything else I'm missing, you'd just take the appropriate power.  Spellcasting seems to cover a lot of what it can do.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on October 31, 2016, 12:28:54 AM
Very nice. I'm gonna print this out. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on October 31, 2016, 01:47:44 PM
Thanks for the answers everyone!
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 01, 2016, 12:58:31 AM
Saracen and I discussed Haki in some detail here (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,43164.msg2164841.html#msg2164841).
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on November 04, 2016, 08:13:44 PM
What kind of action would it be to target a Red Court Vampire's blood sack stomach? I know that their Inhuman Toughness doesn't provide armor for the belly; so would it be an attack or a maneuver? Or is puncturing/tearing it only the result of a consequence that the RCV took?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on November 04, 2016, 08:53:04 PM
What kind of action would it be to target a Red Court Vampire's blood sack stomach? I know that their Inhuman Toughness doesn't provide armor for the belly; so would it be an attack or a maneuver? Or is puncturing/tearing it only the result of a consequence that the RCV took?

This one comes up every now and then.   Tagging an appropriate aspect works well.  A consequence or a maneuver that makes sense: pinned, supine, exposed belly etc...

Then I'd allow catch satisfying attacks as long as the aspect is applicable.  At least for the one who tagged the aspect.  I'm not sure if I'd make others spend a FP to take advantage of it.   I suppose it depends how the compel is worded. 

I think there's a couple other ways if handling it...I can't remember how, though

Edit:  knowledge might be what you need.  A Lore assessment t might be enough. 

A called shot: getting 3 shifts on an attack. 
An AIM action.  Which is essentially an aspect. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on November 04, 2016, 08:56:40 PM
Thanks Taran. I thought it was probably a common question, but the search bar & I were disagreeing with one another. and I couldn't find it anywhere. Your advice sounds great.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on November 07, 2016, 08:08:11 PM
One of the PCs in the game I'm running lives on her own yacht, which is part of her treasure-hunting fleet, but the fleet doesn't really have any impact on the game. As I'm preparing something nasty for the next game session, I got to wondering: can a yacht (or houseboat or livable-type of boat) have a threshold to it? I am thinking no; while it is a living space, it is a non-permanent space that moves around and rests on/in the ocean, which is a whole lot of water. What do you all think? 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: dragoonbuster on November 07, 2016, 08:20:23 PM
In all but very special circumstances I'd say no threshold.

On the other hand, some creatures (and wizards) aren't fond of getting out over large bodies of water, so there's some protection there.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on November 07, 2016, 09:13:09 PM
Maybe not a Yacht.  It's more of a recreational craft.  A house boat might.  It really depends on whether the person/people identify the place as home.  But even Harry's apartment didn't have much of a threshold, so I doubt a single person living on a boat would have a threshold at all.

An entire family living on a boat, travelling the world might create a threshold over time.  It's that sense of safety, peace, family and love that creates a threshold, IMO.  Doesn't really matter much where it is.  I could see an old tavern or pub having a threshold if it has a tight enough community.

In any case, I don't think water would affect a threshold.  Water might create a threshold just because it's water but I don't think it would degrade an existing threshold.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on November 07, 2016, 09:28:17 PM
I dunno, I think I'd allow it.  In terms of cannon, Thresholds arent a normal act of magic where "grounding the energies" would apply, so I think it would be able to form there as much as any single occupancy would be able to develop one.  In terms of game balance it wouldnt be significantly different than any old apartment, so it would fall in the Why Not category.

That being said, I would allow a fairly wide interpretation on what qualifies as a Home, up to and including allowing an rover/gypsie lifestyle that would form a threshold around a mobile home, RV, airstream etc.  It would have similar limitations as a rental property on the assumption that it's a single occupancy or single generation.  But if RV was Home to the character and also inherited I wouldnt want to restrict the threashold on it.  Similarly Id allow a traveling circus family or some such to have a threshold on their wagon, a pirate crew equivalent to the Firefly folks and their ship, or similar. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on November 07, 2016, 10:09:42 PM
a pirate crew equivalent to the Firefly folks and their ship, or similar.

I would definitely agree with this, especially since Serenity was as much a member of the crew as the rest of them.

Great advice and points, everyone. My plan is that a RCV sorcerer is trying to use tracking/locating magic to find a journal that the group stole from him and, if I remember right, when using thaumaturgy in that way, you have to take account for thresholds. I'm really only interested in a story purpose: whether the vamp can succeed mechanically is of less concern than the "I'm safe!" or "I'm not safe" feeling that the player/character should have. The changeling of the group (descended from mermaids) is the one living on the yacht. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on November 08, 2016, 01:31:35 AM
I would definitely agree with this, especially since Serenity was as much a member of the crew as the rest of them.

Great advice and points, everyone. My plan is that a RCV sorcerer is trying to use tracking/locating magic to find a journal that the group stole from him and, if I remember right, when using thaumaturgy in that way, you have to take account for thresholds. I'm really only interested in a story purpose: whether the vamp can succeed mechanically is of less concern than the "I'm safe!" or "I'm not safe" feeling that the player/character should have. The changeling of the group (descended from mermaids) is the one living on the yacht.

As long as she's comfortable being out in the middle of the water, the RCV will be hard pressed to attack...he magic will probably be impeded by the water...unless he just tries to sink the boat.  But then again, he probably wants his stuff back.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on November 08, 2016, 01:20:02 PM
I would definitely agree with this, especially since Serenity was as much a member of the crew as the rest of them.

Great advice and points, everyone. My plan is that a RCV sorcerer is trying to use tracking/locating magic to find a journal that the group stole from him and, if I remember right, when using thaumaturgy in that way, you have to take account for thresholds. I'm really only interested in a story purpose: whether the vamp can succeed mechanically is of less concern than the "I'm safe!" or "I'm not safe" feeling that the player/character should have. The changeling of the group (descended from mermaids) is the one living on the yacht.
Well, both in the novels and in the game Thaumaturgy can still technically reach past a threshold, though it does impede it.  In the case of the Houseboat I'd allow them to have a base threshold to build normal wards on like any house, but also let them take advantage of the water to "Bunker Down" when they want extra protections by taking the boat out into the middle of the water and dropping anchor their.  It offers magical security in exchange for isolation and limited escape options, and they'd face the same weakening of magic as everyone else unless they have a water mage in the group. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: SerGalahad on November 08, 2016, 09:44:16 PM
Good point about invoking the aspect of the water. That is one of the things I'm still getting used to about Fate; that scenes, places, objects, etc all can have aspects too and that the players or villains can invoke/tag those aspects too. And that would be a great solution to them, if they wanted to stay save from the RCVs for awhile; harder to get to on the open water as well.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Xenon on November 11, 2016, 12:35:19 AM
I just got the pdf, and was looking through the various points of character creation.

the idea i had- Minor talent, Worldwalker (-2). this looks technically legal, despite falling under two points of requiring GM permission(once for the category and again for the -2). its an interesting idea, one i have seen several time in Zelazney's works (Amber, Donnerjack, Roadmarks), and makes for a lot of interesting story ideas. high concept seems to be a bit tricky, but 'Scholar of Ways' seems proper enough, as someone who studies and travels the ways through the nevernever. then take a stunt for occultism (nevernever, focus in ways), and lore at good(+3). stacking bonuses, thats 3+2+1+1 for +7 to lore on ways in the nevernever, optionally hitting +8 with the high concept aspect for a FP. not bad for a minor talent with a total of -3 to refresh, works for feet in the water too.

not sure how well this plays with the actual rules, as i am not overly familiar with fate in general yet. if lore was at +4, could it conditionally hit +9 or does the ladder cap at +8? are there any listed example of worldwalker i should look at? the minor talent version seems like it would be tied to Dreamers at some point, but different. Daydream believer perhaps?

the other idea that crossed my mind was a Scion of Janus, greek god of transitions, gates, and doorways. I recall seeing the rpg listing Olympus and Elysium as realms of the nevernever. It would seem that the greek row of frat houses near a college would share some affinity, for Bacchus at least.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Nepene on November 11, 2016, 01:55:00 AM
Stunts, including power ones, bonuses don't stack well.

Quote
Furthermore, when used in combination,
stunts should avoid overlapping such that their
bonuses “stack”—both adding in the same way
to the outcome. If such stacking is possible, then
the stunts, taken individually, should each be less
effective than the norm

So if you take stunts to do with nevernever knowledge they wouldn't stack with your power stunts. That said, the ladder can go as high as you want. If you invest enough fate points and aspects the sky's the limit.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on November 11, 2016, 02:02:10 AM
powers stack with stunts but stunts do not stack with stunts.  Or, they do at my table.

That said, having a +7 to get around in the nevernever isn't very powerful, imo.  Super, amazingly useful when you're in the nevernever.  Completely useless otherwise.  General NEvernever Lore would get used often enough, though, but I'm not sure your Worldwalker would come into play there....I have to re-read the power.

If that's the route you want to go, make sure there's going to be some actual play in the NN

Edit:  +9 with a FP.  Invoking an aspect gives you a +2

Edit2: welcome to the boards
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Nepene on November 11, 2016, 02:21:07 AM
Your table, your rules of course, but, powers are stunts.

Quote
Supernatural abilities in The Dresden Files
RPG are also represented by stunts, just like the
specialties and talents of “mundane” mortals (see
Mortal Stunts, starting on page 146). These stunts
are called supernatural powers
YW p158

I agree that nevernever walking on it's own isn't super useful, but if it's a fun story element it's not that expensive to include. Worth talking with your GM about how they'd handle it. They may not want twice as much work, having to develop a complex nevernever place for every location they make, so some quick ways to use it would be good. TPP covers a nevernever based campaign where it'd be more useful.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 11, 2016, 08:15:27 AM
That very same page refers to Powers and stunts as separate things.

Quote
...a -1 Refresh Power is allowed to be a little more effective than an otherwise equivalent stunt.

The book really isn't written precisely enough to support that kind of reading.

It's pretty clear that the people writing the books intended Power bonuses to stack both with stunts and with each other. Otherwise there'd be a note on Hulking Size, which is basically always taken alongside Strength. And the statblocks of Kincaid (YS160), Douglas Van Horne (PP124), and Betty Mullins (PP122) either wouldn't have stunts that stack with their Powers or would have some indication that the stacking shouldn't work fully.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Xenon on November 11, 2016, 02:12:52 PM
so, the question then becomes, would fleet of foot (-1 stunt, +2 to sprinting) stack with inhuman speed (-2 power, includes +2 sprinting)?

what if i have a bicycle? i would assume its speed would be based on sprinting. (now imagine the 10-speed of Hermes as an item)

Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on November 11, 2016, 10:27:00 PM
They stack, IMO.

Biking would be an athletics roll and you'd get your sprint bonus if you did nothing else but move. 

But a bike should move faster than a person on foot, shouldn't they?

Maybe it's  harder to peddle a bike at supernatural speeds so you don't go any faster. You are limited by the equipment.   Or maybe you say bikes cover bigger zones than people on foot so for each zone you move on a bike is further than when running.

Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on November 14, 2016, 12:59:45 PM
They stack, IMO.

Biking would be an athletics roll and you'd get your sprint bonus if you did nothing else but move. 

But a bike should move faster than a person on foot, shouldn't they?

Maybe it's  harder to peddle a bike at supernatural speeds so you don't go any faster. You are limited by the equipment.   Or maybe you say bikes cover bigger zones than people on foot so for each zone you move on a bike is further than when running.
For general use that sounds like it works fine.  For a chase scene, something where for example you are trying to outrun a car with a bike going 60 mph, I'd want to impose the danger of the bike just exploding to pieces for being forced to operate so far outside of it's intended capabilities;  probably fine in a short burst, but something offering a cumulative chance for it to fail the longer the scene lasts
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on November 21, 2016, 12:35:49 AM
How do I build a knight of the cross in training? An also what should I focus on?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 21, 2016, 03:57:41 AM
Up to you, really.

Presumably they'd have a solid Conviction, and appropriately heroic Aspects. But whether they have Righteousness yet, whether they've been given a Sword, whether they're any good at Weapons...you decide.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Nepene on November 21, 2016, 12:33:56 PM
Conviction can substitute for any skill, so knights are pretty flexible.

If you look at the power description for righteousness and guide my hand, it's about having a divine purpose.

So in game work out aspects that make it easy to say that a lot of stuff you're doing is part of your divine purpose.

Any sort of person can become a knight, they just need to have royal heritage and pick up the sword and be chosen. So, lots of builds are fine.

Alertness, endurance, athletics and weapons are good for fights.  Athletics is probably a key one. If you can run away and dodge attacks you can survive a lot, and getting fit is useful for a knight.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on November 21, 2016, 02:15:13 PM
How do I build a knight of the cross in training? An also what should I focus on?

You could start as a True Believer if you wanted.  Or a Pure Mortal.
You could have a sword but not know what it is and, therefore, be unable to access its powers until crucial moments.

I had a character who found one of the swords.  He knew it was important to dangerous people but he didn't know why and he was in hiding.

All I took was Guide My Hand and had a high Conviction.  I kept the rest of my refresh as FPs.  When it was appropriate to a scene, when I thought the sword would come into play, I'd spend my FPs on the powers of the sword to have access to them for that scene.

My idea was that, eventually, as the character learned about the sword, I'd buy the powers permanently.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on November 21, 2016, 02:41:35 PM
Very nice. I shall take that into consideration because I had the idea of building a Rastafarian knight of the cross but considering that I have never built one before. Wanted to ask folks on the forums before I tackle that job.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Tirs on November 21, 2016, 03:11:37 PM
The alternative recovery/regeneration power (for my Chronicles of Darkness-to-DF conversion). Image the recovery power which doesn't improve character's stamina nor guarantee your a total recovery, and work with wounds only, but on the way higher level.  Like, character can use this trick:
Quote
It’s Nothing. Twice per scene, you may clear away a mild physical consequence (page 203) as a supplemental action (page 213).
in DF RPG.
In WoD the whole damage healing based on this, but it can be used multiply times and without mild-only limit.

 E.g. WoD-werewolves. While  in their war-form, every turn they will eliminate all mild and moderate, and possibly even some sewer consequence (except of those which inflicted by silver weapons). So, to hurt werewolf, you need use silver, make her accept sewer/extreme consequences, or inflict take down during one exchange.
For WoD vampires it doesn't work so good, but they still can eliminate moderate consequences a lot of times during fight.
 So, how expensive such abilities could be in terms of refresh?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on November 21, 2016, 03:18:55 PM
The alternative recovery/regeneration power (for my Chronicles of Darkness-to-DF conversion). Image the recovery power which doesn't improve character's stamina nor guarantee your a total recovery, and work with wounds only, but on the way higher level.  Like, character can use this trick: in DF RPG.
In WoD the whole damage healing based on this, but it can be used multiply times and without mild-only limit.

 E.g. WoD-werewolves. While  in their war-form, every turn they will eliminate all mild and moderate, and possibly even some sewer consequence (except of those which inflicted by silver weapons). So, to hurt werewolf, you need use silver, make her accept sewer/extreme consequences, or inflict take down during one exchange.
For WoD vampires it doesn't work so good, but they still can eliminate moderate consequences a lot of times during fight.
 So, how expensive such abilities could be in terms of refresh?

It sounds like Werewolves have Physical Immunity with a Catch of Silver.

We re-skinned recovery to heal an amount of consequences based on level:
Inhuman recovers two stress worth of consequences
Supernatural recovers 4
Mythic recovers 6

So, with mythic, you could recover 1 severe or; 1 moderate and 1 mild or; 3 mild

You could use that.  The discount for not getting tired or needing sleep etc wouldn't be very much.  -1 on Supernatural or higher, I'd say.  But I'm not the best at eyeing powers.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Nepene on November 22, 2016, 02:27:14 PM
The standard rules for werewolves is that they heal one bashing injury (stress basically) per round or can spend one essence (fate point) to heal a lethal wound (a low tier consequence), and can't heal quickly from aggravated wounds (high tier consequences) without supernatural abilities.

As such, to cross it over I'd probably just let them heal their leftmost physical stressbox once per round representing mild bruises and damage instantly repairing, with the option to spend a fate point to regenerate a mild consequence. That would fit most closely to the actual system used. Alternatively, give them inhuman toughness and the 1 armor represents them autoregenerating.

If you make them autoregenerate consequences you're letting them regenerate lethal/ aggrevated wounds automatically, which is going to put them at a much higher power level than werewolves in either system.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Tirs on November 22, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
The standard rules for werewolves is that they heal one bashing injury (stress basically) per round or can spend one essence (fate point) to heal a lethal wound (a low tier consequence), and can't heal quickly from aggravated wounds (high tier consequences) without supernatural abilities.

As such, to cross it over I'd probably just let them heal their leftmost physical stressbox once per round representing mild bruises and damage instantly repairing, with the option to spend a fate point to regenerate a mild consequence. That would fit most closely to the actual system used. Alternatively, give them inhuman toughness and the 1 armor represents them autoregenerating.

If you make them autoregenerate consequences you're letting them regenerate lethal/ aggrevated wounds automatically, which is going to put them at a much higher power level than werewolves in either system.
It was in 1st edition. Now werewolf heal bashing injuries equal to their Primal Urge (no direct analog in DF system) automatically, or the same amount of lethal damage if she spend one Essence point. In Gauru-form, werewolf heal all damage of both types every turn.
And I respectably disagree about Essence as fate-points. It's closer to Vite (blood) for vampires, so I think it should be described as Feeding dependency. At the same time, Willpower closer to Fate-point.

Couple of words about my conversion system (may be it will be interesting for someone). It's still a quite 'mutant' which require to have char-lists for both systems and mostly can be used for design antagonists/NPC.
It is based on the fact that max pool for normal human in DF is 5, while in WoD - is 10 (Attribute+Skill). Also, in DF the lowest value for trait is 0 (if we won't touch penalties), while in WoD  is 1 (for Attribute).
So, my idea is about find the traits in WoD than calculate the analog for DF. If the only Attribute is used, use it's value -1 (for example Endurance=Stamina-1), while for Attribute+Skill poll should be divided by 2 (rounded down), e.g. Guns= (Dexterity+Firearms+/-modifiers)/2. It's more or less confirmed by close probability, though it's hard to compare. For using WoD powers and modifiers - just look at the original pool and divide by 2 and use the effect. Later I'll put the conversion of example start characters from WoD in separate theme.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 23, 2016, 08:30:59 AM
The alternative recovery/regeneration power (for my Chronicles of Darkness-to-DF conversion). Image the recovery power which doesn't improve character's stamina nor guarantee your a total recovery, and work with wounds only, but on the way higher level.  Like, character can use this trick: in DF RPG.
In WoD the whole damage healing based on this, but it can be used multiply times and without mild-only limit.

 E.g. WoD-werewolves. While  in their war-form, every turn they will eliminate all mild and moderate, and possibly even some sewer consequence (except of those which inflicted by silver weapons). So, to hurt werewolf, you need use silver, make her accept sewer/extreme consequences, or inflict take down during one exchange.
For WoD vampires it doesn't work so good, but they still can eliminate moderate consequences a lot of times during fight.
 So, how expensive such abilities could be in terms of refresh?

Would have to be really expensive. Removing a mild and a moderate each round is a lot like armour 6 in single combat. Worse in team fights, though. Maybe 6 Refresh?

One thing that worries me is that such a power would inflate the value of extra consequences. Normally an extra mild slot's not great, but with this it's like stacking armour 2.

If I were you I'd just use normal Toughness and Recovery. Trying to convert mechanics is rarely profitable. Almost always better to convert the concept.

The standard rules for werewolves is that they heal one bashing injury (stress basically) per round or can spend one essence (fate point) to heal a lethal wound (a low tier consequence), and can't heal quickly from aggravated wounds (high tier consequences) without supernatural abilities.

As such, to cross it over I'd probably just let them heal their leftmost physical stressbox once per round representing mild bruises and damage instantly repairing, with the option to spend a fate point to regenerate a mild consequence. That would fit most closely to the actual system used. Alternatively, give them inhuman toughness and the 1 armor represents them autoregenerating.

I think Inhuman Toughness is a good idea.

Removing the leftmost stress box each turn probably isn't. Bear in mind, no attack can fill more than one stress box. So unless your opponent can blow through your whole stress track to put a consequence on you, you're invincible.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Nepene on November 23, 2016, 10:23:20 PM
Removing the leftmost stress box each turn probably isn't. Bear in mind, no attack can fill more than one stress box. So unless your opponent can blow through your whole stress track to put a consequence on you, you're invincible.

That is somewhat an issue with werewolves- they are invincible to non werewolves. It was noted as a special issue in vampires vs werewolves.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 24, 2016, 05:15:39 PM
Okay, but do you want them to be invincible to each other too?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Tirs on November 24, 2016, 07:50:02 PM
Okay, but do you want them to be invincible to each other too?
Nope. Actually, this is just an optional rule. Using RAW, they aren't invincible at all, though very tough. Like, Marvel's Wolverine level of regen for non-silver weapon.
They actually not the strongest gameline - Beasts, Demons and (in physic terms) Prometheans are. Potentially, Mages also good.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on November 25, 2016, 02:37:30 PM
Nope. Actually, this is just an optional rule. Using RAW, they aren't invincible at all, though very tough. Like, Marvel's Wolverine level of regen for non-silver weapon.
They actually not the strongest gameline - Beasts, Demons and (in physic terms) Prometheans are. Potentially, Mages also good.

Wolverine probably has Mythic Recovery.  And Supernatural Toughness.  Give them that.  Then give them a Catch of "Silver and Other Werewolves".  Which is probably a +2 catch.

A normal mortal cannot hurt these things with 2 armour (most pistols and swords), rifles hardly make them sweat (just hitting their 8 shift stress track (which doesn't count as taking 'damage') and any damage that gets through is healed instantly in that combat.  And anything that lasts through a fight is instantly healed BEFORE the next scene.

If you use the 'up to 6-shift healing' House Rule, they can even heal a Severe in combat.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on December 04, 2016, 05:15:13 PM
What kind of spells can I create from sponsored magic: hellfire?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on December 05, 2016, 07:19:54 PM
What kind of spells can I create from sponsored magic: hellfire?
Fire at the obvious forefront, but anything destructive and/or chaotic really.  But nothing requiring to much precision or finesse, as a power source it fluctuates and stutters (per SmF) and it doesnt lend itself well to long-term workings.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 06, 2016, 06:09:46 AM
Demon-summoning fits too.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on December 06, 2016, 01:47:02 PM
Demon-summoning fits too.
That's a good point.  You could actually go pretty far with the idea of it as "demon magic." It could be used to supernaturally Seal a Bargain, maybe?  Could probably burn a hole-Way to the NN that would stay open longer than normal (needing to "heal" instead of just close)?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on December 06, 2016, 05:41:12 PM
When I look at thematic spellcasting, I assume it can do almost the full range of Thaumaturgy but within the theme.

-Hellfire could do divination by summoning a demonic entity and asking it questions.  Maybe using one of the more sadistic methods of divining (looking at entrails of a still-alive victim or whatever)
-It can do anything summoning can do but only with demonic entities
-It can probably do psychomancy with a focus on temptation and, probably pushing someone towards violence.
-It can do wards that focus on explosions, fire, pain, suffering, summoning demonic guardians etc..
-It might be able to do a very, very limited ectomancy if the ghost you're trying to talk to has some kind of connection Hell or whose spirit roams because of some kind of sin...

Really, it's up to the player to see what kinds of things they can justify and up to the GM to decide if it fits.  Hammering out guidelines before a game starts is probably wise.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on December 06, 2016, 06:27:07 PM
When I look at thematic spellcasting, I assume it can do almost the full range of Thaumaturgy but within the theme.

-Hellfire could do divination by summoning a demonic entity and asking it questions.  Maybe using one of the more sadistic methods of divining (looking at entrails of a still-alive victim or whatever)
-It can do anything summoning can do but only with demonic entities
-It can probably do psychomancy with a focus on temptation and, probably pushing someone towards violence.
-It can do wards that focus on explosions, fire, pain, suffering, summoning demonic guardians etc..
-It might be able to do a very, very limited ectomancy if the ghost you're trying to talk to has some kind of connection Hell or whose spirit roams because of some kind of sin...

Really, it's up to the player to see what kinds of things they can justify and up to the GM to decide if it fits.  Hammering out guidelines before a game starts is probably wise.
That's a really great way to look at it. Makes it much easier to establish the boundaries early.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: khadgar4606 on December 11, 2016, 03:09:53 PM
lets consider mab and harry have a son how powerful the kid will be
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Mr. Death on December 11, 2016, 03:46:12 PM
lets consider mab and harry have a son how powerful the kid will be
Very.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Nepene on December 13, 2016, 10:26:02 AM
lets consider mab and harry have a son how powerful the kid will be

Sarissa wasn't especially powerful. Harry's magical bloodline is notably potent, given what it's produced. So, probably a strong wizard.

Mantles aren't fully inheritable.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on December 13, 2016, 01:21:06 PM
Sarissa wasn't especially powerful. Harry's magical bloodline is notably potent, given what it's produced. So, probably a strong wizard.

Mantles aren't fully inheritable.
On the other hand, Sarissa never made her Choice and so would not have gotten much use from her Fae side.  But who knows, had she chosen she might well have been a damn powerful Sidhe even without a mantle, coming directly from a Queen.   

The thing about a Mab/Harry Baby is that their powers are largely incompatible thanks to the Changeling Choice. Magic shows up right around the same time as Mortal Magic, and I expect that the Choice forces it into an Either Or scenario.  You either Choose Mortality and train as a wizard, or you Choose Fae and inherit whatever Power you might from your Fae side.  But you cannot hang on to your mortality long enough to learn Mortal Magic and still tap your fae side witt any regularity, barring a Deal with something crazy power to make it happen, as happened with Sarissa and possibly similar to Grey's circumstances (based on vague hints)
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on December 18, 2016, 03:27:52 PM
Is it possible to build a focus pract based around gunplay? If so can someone give me an example?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on December 18, 2016, 05:40:03 PM
i have a few ideas.   I'll post them today.  How much refresh do I have to spend?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Nepene on December 18, 2016, 06:30:04 PM
High concept. Undead kinetomancer.

Trouble. I'm dead!

Aspects. Magical sheriff of the wild west, cursed by aztec gold, old man in a new world.

Powers. Sponsored magic (gunfu) -2 Living dead  (-1) Improved toughness (-2) catch is aztec holy weapons.

Skills. Discipline, conviction.

Endurance, Alertness

Athletics, Intimidation

Investigation, Guns

Survival, scholarship.

All magic would be related to kinetic gun stuff- absurd athletics, shooting objects, explosive blasts, trick shots and such.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on December 18, 2016, 07:03:22 PM
I love the living dead Sherrif.

I have three versions.  Here is my first take:

+4 Guns; Craftsmanship
+3 Scholarship; Alertness; Athletics
etc...

Stunts:
-1 Alternative Casting Style:  replace discipline wit Guns for control.  Replace Scholarship for Lore.  Replace Craftsmanship for Power.
and, maybe one or two of these stunts.
-1 Gun Nut
-1 Use guns to make Lore declarations for Potions
-1 On My Toes

-2 Channeling Earth
-2 Ritual Earth.
 ? Refinements

Foci:  BFG  +'x' power
         Scope +'x' Control

Enchanted items:  anything to do with various types of ammunition.  Dumdum bullets, tear gas, flares etc..

All your spells involve shooting stuff out of guns.  Preferable your Focus gun.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on December 18, 2016, 08:01:19 PM
2) Similar to above but:
IoP: gun

-3 GUN
   +1 handgun (concealable)
    -2 Channeling
    -2 Refinement

Bunch of gun stunts.

3) Crafter.  This is the best gunslinger, I think.

10 refresh
+5 Guns;
+4  Craftsmanship* Athletics;
+3  Conviction; Alertness
+2 Discipline; etc...

Stunts:
- Use Guns to declare Potions*
- Use Craftsmanship instead of Lore for crafting gun-related items*
Pick one of the following
- Pin them Down
- Gun Nut
- Target Rich Environment
- Old Betsy:  +1 accuracy when using Old Betsy
- On my toes

*Ditch these stunts by dropping Craftsmanship and taking Lore at +4.  Then pick up 2 more refinements (boost frequency/Power and grab 2-4 more items).  But I think you lose a bit of flavour.

Powers:
-3 Thaumaturgy
-3 Refinement

Bonus Specialization: +1 Crafting Power
Bonus focus slots from thaum: 2 enchanted item slots; +1 frequency
Refinement 1: Specializations - +1 Crafting Power; +1 Crafting Frequency
Refinement 2: +1 Crafting Frequency Foci; 2 enchanted item slots
Refinement 3: +1 Crafting Power Foci; 2 enchanted item slots

Enchanted Items:
Old Betsy: Power 7(weapon 7) attack; usable 4X
  Can also be used as a mundane gun.
Armoured Jacket: Power 7 Block; Usuable 4X
Grenade launcher attachment: weapon 5, zone wide fire attack 4X
Grappling hook attachment: althletics 7; useable 4X
2 Power 7 Potion Slots Usable 4Xeach (skinned as ammo and targeting with guns) - or just regular potions.

Other possible  items: 
Enhanced sensor array or magical binoculars/Scope: Alertness 7
Laser sight:  "In my Sights"

Items that stack aspects are good for boosting attack rolls. 

Combine 2 and 3 by making "old Betsy" an Iop.  Add True Aim and, maybe, a refinement or a speed Power or something gun related...maybe a stunt like Quick Draw or something.

Edited some bad math and added some items
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on December 19, 2016, 12:02:11 AM
9 refresh and 25 skillpoints is what I have to play with and wow! This is super creative! Its very flexible and open. Very, very nice.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on December 19, 2016, 02:51:12 PM
Harry Callaghan Jr: the Magnum Mage

High Concept: Former Cop turned Vigilante wizard
Trouble: Hair Trigger Temper
Background Concept: My father's legacy
Rising Conflict: Yer a Wizard, Harry!
Aspect 1: The Undead Pool
Asepct 2: Sudden Impact
Aspect 3: The Magnum Mage

Powers:
Evocation [-3], elements: air, fire, spirit, +1 Control & Power w/Spirit, +1 Control w/Fire)
Refinement [-1]
Focus Item: Father's Lucky Magnum: +1 Control & Power w/ Spirit (2 slots)

Stunts:
The Magnum Force (Guns): use Guns for Evocation with Spirit spells
On My Toes +2 Initiative


Skills (25):
Great(+4): Conviction (5 w/ Spirit Evocation, 6 w/ Lucky Magnum), Guns (Spirit Evocation 5, 6 w/ Lucky Magnum)
Good(+3): Alertness (Initiative 5), Fists
Fair(+2): Athletics, Lore, Intimidation
Average (+1): Discipline (Fire evocation 2), Driving, Endurance, Presence, Scholarship

Rote Spell: Magnum Forzare! Spirit 6, requires Lucky Magnum, special effect: gun fires, but does not use a bullet

Stress: Physical OOO, Mental OOOO, Social OOO

Spent Refresh: -6
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on December 19, 2016, 03:16:09 PM
Ha, ha, I love it!

Although I feel Dirty Harry should have higher fists and intimidate but with a submerged character you could boost those.

The Aspects are great although, I think at least one should be a play on one of his famous phrases.   'Feel Lucky Punk?' Or 'Go ahead Make My Day.'  The latter could be his trouble but I also like the trouble you have. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on December 19, 2016, 03:56:12 PM
Ha, ha, I love it!

Although I feel Dirty Harry should have higher fists and intimidate but with a submerged character you could boost those.

AlAspects are great although one should be a play on one of his famous phrases.   Feel Lucky Punk? Or Go ahead Make My Day.  The latter could be his trouble but I also like the trouble you have.
Maybe a "Feel Lucky Punk" stunt that warps probability one direction or the other? 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on December 19, 2016, 03:59:44 PM
Maybe a "Feel Lucky Punk" stunt that warps probability one direction or the other?

Making it a stunt or power is a good idea.  It could be an intimidation stunt.  +2 when intimidating someone at gun-point.  You could fit in a few extra stunts if  you made him a focused practitioner instead of a Wizard.  But a Dirty Harry Warden would be pretty awesome too.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on December 19, 2016, 07:23:58 PM
Stunt: Do you feel lucky, punk? Swap Guns for Intimidation when threatening someone with a firearm.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on December 19, 2016, 08:02:55 PM
"Six Shots or Five...?" A hex-related power to cause bullets to fail and/or become inert and unable to fire. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on December 25, 2016, 05:33:33 PM
Must...write...notes. So much flavor its driving me crazy! Very creative.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on December 26, 2016, 03:05:40 PM
What kind of super sense would the spider-sense be considered in dresden files rpg?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Mr. Death on December 26, 2016, 03:38:07 PM
What kind of super sense would the spider-sense be considered in dresden files rpg?
Probably a combination of a bonus to Alertness against surprise attacks and a boost to dodging attacks in general.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on December 26, 2016, 06:03:56 PM
Yeah, sensing danger should make you immune to ambushes.  That said, if you watch the old cartoons it's more like,

"Danger! My Spidey Senses are tingling....what could it be?"

*WHACK*

"Ouch, that hurt"

So maybe it just gives you a bonus to notice instead of total immunity. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on December 27, 2016, 03:09:04 PM
Regarding Spidey Sense, part of it depends a lot on how Precognative you are willing to let the ability be. That's something that would vary pretty widely in the comics and other media.  Sometimes it's like Taran said, where it's not exactly useless but somewhat close.  In others (like the more recent Avengers cartoon) he was able to disarm super-futuristic technology by reaching for random levers and buttons and just trusting his spidey-sense to warn him if that button/lever would be dangerous to fiddle with. 

Another balancing factor is having certain characters that are immune to the sense, or otherwise negate it.  Spiderman went both ways with that one.  There was Venom, who by virtue of their shared origins was not detectable as "Danger" to the spidey-sense.  On the other end of the spectrum you have Morlun (featured in the Spiderman Novel that Jim wrote (https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1416510680/iagonet)) who was so innately dangerous to his animalistic powers (because Magic) that his spidey sense would overload, essentially getting stuck on full blast alarm mode, and no longer give any useful warning to specific things. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on December 27, 2016, 04:32:15 PM
What kind of super sense would the spider-sense be considered in dresden files rpg?

I would write Spider-Man with an aspect (my Trusty Spider Sense) that can be tagged positively or negatively as the plot dictates, an Alertness of Great or Superb, a Supernatural Sense that let's him roll Alertness to alert him to potential dangers (which be boosted by the Aspect), and Supernatural Speed to let him dodge at +2 on top of his Superb or Fantastic Athletics skill.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on December 27, 2016, 06:09:51 PM
I could easily see Spidey-Sense being useless in certain situations that are inherently dangerous: warehouses being on fire, Radioactive areas, Hdes or Hell, and certain areas of the Mos Eisley Spaceport.

You might make an argument that it could useful in the Nevernever ("Does this Way lead to safety or the bottom of the Marianas Trench?").  I guess I could allow that.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on December 28, 2016, 05:15:57 AM
I could easily see Spidey-Sense being useless in certain situations that are inherently dangerous: warehouses being on fire, Radioactive areas, Hdes or Hell, and certain areas of the Mos Eisley Spaceport.

Would you allow a PC to roll their Alertness roll (possibly with a bonus from the "Paranoid? Probably..." stunt) to detect a threat in any of the situations listed above? 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on January 03, 2017, 02:18:51 PM
I could easily see Spidey-Sense being useless in certain situations that are inherently dangerous: warehouses being on fire, Radioactive areas, Hdes or Hell, and certain areas of the Mos Eisley Spaceport.
Im not sure I like that, purely from my old Spidey fandom.  I dont think Spidersense is supposed to be able to be "drowned out" like that expect in very rare circumstances, in fact I think it was the specific and unique danger of Morlun  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morlun)and his ilk. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Mr. Death on January 03, 2017, 03:15:05 PM
Yeah, the Spider-Sense is generally more of a, "Hey! You, specifically, are about to be hit by something!" than just making him generally aware of danger.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: dragoonbuster on January 04, 2017, 04:13:44 AM
Yeah, the Spider-Sense is generally more of a, "Hey! You, specifically, are about to be hit by something!" than just making him generally aware of danger.

Otherwise he'd have gone insane living in New York City.

Spidey-Sense always came off to me as what Mr. Death said. It's an early warning collision system more than anything.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: blackstaff67 on January 04, 2017, 10:21:02 AM
I'll concede the argument to you.  To be honest, I was thinking of Danger Sense (or something like it) from GURPS  (another RPG) and tried to extrapolate/translate it to this setting.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on January 05, 2017, 09:56:52 PM
Just a quick question! A friend of mine is going to be joining our campaign and hes looking to make a dwarf. Does anyone have any build recommendations for one?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on January 05, 2017, 10:23:37 PM
Just a quick question! A friend of mine is going to be joining our campaign and hes looking to make a dwarf. Does anyone have any build recommendations for one?
Can you elaborate on what kind of "Dwarf" you are looking for?  My brain goes straight to classic DnD dwarves (craft-heavy with heavy stone and/or subterranean flavor), I know others default to Tolkien, and neither have great equivalents in the DV that I can think of (Svartalves are pretty close maybe)
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: FloraDelirus on January 08, 2017, 12:30:42 AM
Does anyone know of a way to disrupt the Ways or block access to them from a specific city?  A spell, sacrifice, magical item, entity, something?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Tedronai on January 08, 2017, 01:18:41 AM
The following is nearly pure conjecture / personal opinion:

The only method I could think of would be to block all access to/from the Nevernever as a whole, since the Ways are not so special that they could be blocked specifically like that, being little more than (comparatively) safe paths within the Nevernever to (relatively) stable and known locations.
That should be able to be accomplished (in theory) by a sufficiently (read: incredibly) large and powerful magical working functionally opposite that of opening a gateway.  Instead of smashing or tearing or otherwise parting the veil between the mortal world and the Nevernever, you strengthen and reinforce it, making it difficult for others to traverse.  This may or may not be easier for communities with more well-defined borders - those borders providing something to anchor to in much the same way as a Threshold.

This will not be absolute, and a sufficiently powerful or determined traveler should be able to break through in time (and maintaining such a barrier would itself be taxing and of questionable value over the long term unless paired with similarly immense defenses of other sorts).

In terms of game mechanics, you'd simply be erecting a Thaumaturgical Block over a large area
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on January 09, 2017, 06:19:55 PM
Can you elaborate on what kind of "Dwarf" you are looking for?  My brain goes straight to classic DnD dwarves (craft-heavy with heavy stone and/or subterranean flavor), I know others default to Tolkien, and neither have great equivalents in the DV that I can think of (Svartalves are pretty close maybe)

I actually asked him today and he said kind of anything but like, a dwarf in a real world setting. He likes the idea of a dwarf owning a pizza shop.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 10, 2017, 07:28:26 AM
D&D-style dwarves can be represented as humans with Aspects, honestly. Most of the time they're just humans, but every once in a while you can invoke your dwarfness to hold your liquor better or something. And by the same token, your dwarfness can be compelled to make you stubborn or to give you height-related problems.

Does anyone know of a way to disrupt the Ways or block access to them from a specific city?  A spell, sacrifice, magical item, entity, something?

Like Tedronai's said, you'd probably do this by blocking Nevernever travel in general. Simplest way to do it would be a fairly straightforward block spell.

Over the long term, keeping boundary-crossers out of town or keeping them from using their abilities might thicken the barrier. YS283 says the veil between worlds gets weaker when someone passes through, so maybe a city where nobody ever crosses to the Nevernever will naturally develop a stronger veil.

Also, welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Londo on January 10, 2017, 11:05:58 PM
Hi guys, I'm sure this question has been asked before so I apologise in advance. I'm a new GM for the DFRPG, and the one thing that strikes me as weird is how additional success shifts add to damage. Wouldn't that be an incentive for people to spend all their focus items on discipline? I'm looking for the balance here.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 10, 2017, 11:08:41 PM
Welcome to the forum and the game, Londo.

And yes, control is better than power for attacks. For other spells, though, power has advantages.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Londo on January 11, 2017, 01:40:15 AM
Thank's for the welcome, and I'm loving the game system. I've never seen a character creation and game mechanic that's so roleplay focused.

Thanks for answering. So just to clarify, under what circumstances would bumping power be more beneficial than the discipline of an evocation spell?

In addition to this, I'm still confused with the 'landmine' ability of thaumaturgy. Could someone just make a 'land mine' bullet, and pump enough points into it to kill even the most powerful of enemies?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on January 11, 2017, 02:50:54 AM
Thanks for answering. So just to clarify, under what circumstances would bumping power be more beneficial than the discipline of an evocation spell?
Blocks and maneuvers are resisted based on the power.  So a power 5 block or maneuver would require a roll of 5 to overcome.  There's no targeting.

Still, though, I find discipline to be more useful.  if you have 6 control and 5 power, you can take a 2 stress hit and still control a power 6 maneuver/block.  Especially if you make it a rote spell.  I've never played a Power focused mage so I can't really tell you how well they work.

In addition to this, I'm still confused with the 'landmine' ability of thaumaturgy. Could someone just make a 'land mine' bullet, and pump enough points into it to kill even the most powerful of enemies?
Yeah, basically.(edit: assuming you have enough time and power to do so)  A bullet would probably be a spirit(telekinetic/force) attack.

So, you program the evocation into the ward.  Let's say you make a 3 shift ward, which is pretty lame but you then add a 10 shift 'landmine' which is a 10-shift evocation attack.  In total, you have a 13 shift ward.  It doesn't include the 2 shifts for having a pass-word or something to avoid whacking your own friends, but it would make for a nasty trap on a door.  So, when someone goes through the ward or destroys it, it unleashes the landmine.

I think the landmine acts as an accuracy 10, weapon 0 attack.  You could probably pay extra shifts to boost the weapon rating but I don't see the point.  You might as well boost the accuracy.

EDIT:
Quote from: YS p.277
The effective targeting roll will be
equal to the power of the evocation, though the
spell’s complexity may be increased on a one for
one basis to add to the targeting roll

So, it looks like the weapon value is equal to the targeting.

It also says:

Quote
add complexity equal to
the power of the evocation spell stored within
the ward.

So, I think what that means is you actually look at your evocation spellcasting ability.  If you can(and want) to cast a power 6 attack into the ward, then it costs you 6 extra shifts.  It becomes a power 6, accuracy 6 attack.  You can then add extra shifts to boost accuracy.  So, it's the opposite of what I said above.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 11, 2017, 03:06:35 AM
The thaumaturgy rules are really not engineer-proof. I could cite some rules to explain why putting a landmine on a bullet is not really workable but it'd be beside the point. If a player wants to break thaumaturgy they probably can, and the best answer to ask them politely not to.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Londo on January 11, 2017, 03:12:48 AM
I blame Pathfinder; but my group is pretty optimised minded. That's not to say they're not great roleplayers, but they'd like to have a solid mechanical base to run that off.
Thank you for clarifying how power is relevant to certain things like blocks and maneuvers. That always confused me.

My remaining concerns are thus
1) Landmines: as I understand it, you don't need evocation to put evocation abilities into wards. So the Landmine ability could constantly trickle a powerful spell into the ward. My group would definitely start every day making some thaumaturgy wards before heading out (sacrifice a handful chickens etc.). I believe there's a section that says a ward needs concentration so likely you couldn't have multiple of them, but I don't want super powerful landmines to rule the game.
2) Evocation: this is a dense question, but how does one defend with evocation? I know you can create Blocks (shields and stuff) and maintain the spell, but the everyday block mechanic. Is it another Conviction + Discipline roll, and if so does it induce a stress? Or does a spell caster either choose to keep up a block or have to use something else like athletics?

BTW this community is great :)
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on January 11, 2017, 03:22:58 AM
The thaumaturgy rules are really not engineer-proof. I could cite some rules to explain why putting a landmine on a bullet is not really workable but it'd be beside the point. If a player wants to break thaumaturgy they probably can, and the best answer to ask them politely not to.

To clarify to Londo, you can't put a ward on a moving item.  You could set up a magically enhanced bullet on gun targetied at a door that goes off when a door is open, that would be legit.

You can't magically enhance a bullet to put in your gun and carry it around everywhere with you.  Well, you can...but you use the enchanted item crafting rules.

I blame Pathfinder; but my group is pretty optimised minded. That's not to say they're not great roleplayers, but they'd like to have a solid mechanical base to run that off.
Thank you for clarifying how power is relevant to certain things like blocks and maneuvers. That always confused me.

My remaining concerns are thus
1) Landmines: as I understand it, you don't need evocation to put evocation abilities into wards. So the Landmine ability could constantly trickle a powerful spell into the ward. My group would definitely start every day making some thaumaturgy wards before heading out (sacrifice a handful chickens etc.). I believe there's a section that says a ward needs concentration so likely you couldn't have multiple of them, but I don't want super powerful landmines to rule the game.

This will almost never come into play.  Are they sacrafiicing chickens everyday to protect their home?  Fine.  Let them do that.  In fact, you can assume they have a ward with a wardflame and a warning system and at least one landmine attached to their home at all times.

Will they have one in the abandoned factory that has been taken over by red court vampires?  no, definitely not.  If they want to reinforce the room where they are sleeping, that would take time and maybe they're being harassed by vampires as they're doing it.

If they have to defend their house, just assume they have those defenses and make it part of the adventure.  Maybe they are doing a ritual to prevent some terrible fate for a loved one.  They choose to do that in their ward-protected house.  The ward becomes a plot device and/or mechanic that gives them time to get their ritual off on time.  Assuming they do the ritual properly.  It's a great way to create tension.

edit:  you don't need to concentrate on wards.  They last until sunrise unless you put extra shifts in duration.  So you may only have to kill chickens 1/month.... :)

2) Evocation: this is a dense question, but how does one defend with evocation? I know you can create Blocks (shields and stuff) and maintain the spell, but the everyday block mechanic. Is it another Conviction + Discipline roll, and if so does it induce a stress? Or does a spell caster either choose to keep up a block or have to use something else like athletics?

There's no default defense with evocation.  You could take a stunt that lets you defend with lore.  It would use up a stress to activate it each time...

They could use enchanted items that go off when attacked.  It would be based on their crafting rating and would be considered a block against attacks (or an athletics skill replacement).

There is a house-rule that people use that lets you cast a spell as a 'dodge' action.  It takes a stress and the spell only works for that one attack (not for the full round).

BTW this community is great

thanks, and welcome.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Londo on January 11, 2017, 03:38:00 AM
Awesome. Thx all. That answers all my questions :)
I suppose you could cast a ward on a piece of paper, and lay in it a doorway ;)

I suppose that GM discretion is important and I don't let my group runaway with the rules. I guess that's what's ingrained into 3.5/Pathfinder where you need to optimise to survive.

Thx again, and I hope to become knowledgeable enough to contribute to these forums someday :)
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on January 11, 2017, 03:45:44 AM
Awesome. Thx all. That answers all my questions :)
I suppose you could cast a ward on a piece of paper, and lay in it a doorway ;)

Wards are pretty specific.  You can cast them on a threshold or on an "intersection or doorway".

So, the paper could be the trigger or link but if you move it, it makes the spell useless.

So, you can't cast the spell on a paper, walk around with it and then place it in a doorway.  You have to cast the spell on the doorway.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on January 11, 2017, 01:27:09 PM
Wards are pretty specific.  You can cast them on a threshold or on an "intersection or doorway".

So, the paper could be the trigger or link but if you move it, it makes the spell useless.

So, you can't cast the spell on a paper, walk around with it and then place it in a doorway.  You have to cast the spell on the doorway.
Could the paper not be a single-use spell container like a potion?  Im picturing those traditional Japanese wards that are calligraphy on rice paper and get stuck/glued to the door-jam. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on January 11, 2017, 02:12:59 PM
Could the paper not be a single-use spell container like a potion?  Im picturing those traditional Japanese wards that are calligraphy on rice paper and get stuck/glued to the door-jam.

Yes but that would fall under the enchanted item/crafting rules.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on January 11, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
Yes but that would fall under the enchanted item/crafting rules.
Oh, certainly.  I just meant as an alternate path to get mobile, pre-programmed and fueled wards, something you could use in the field without a whole lot of on-site prep-work.  They'd be one-use so once they're deployed they could not be moved without breaking them. 

I could actually see playing a whole character being based off that idea of mobile, off-the-cuff barriers.  Ward charms like that, maybe some varieties of Insta-Circle geared toward specific classes of enemy.  Probably some physically oriented veil-work as well for tangential variety. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Mr. Death on January 11, 2017, 03:03:59 PM
There is a house-rule that people use that lets you cast a spell as a 'dodge' action.  It takes a stress and the spell only works for that one attack (not for the full round).
Not a house-rule anymore. The Paranet Papers codify it.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Shaft on January 11, 2017, 04:14:35 PM
Yes but that would fall under the enchanted item/crafting rules.

"I cast Explosive Rune this morning"
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on January 11, 2017, 04:31:26 PM
"I cast Explosive Rune this morning"

Sure, go for it.  Make it as powerful as you want and do tonnes of declarations to boost complexity, but you can't take it with you.  It sticks to whatever threshold, door or hallway you cast it on.

If you want to do a portable explosive rune then it's crafting which is limited to your Lore.

Oh, certainly.  I just meant as an alternate path to get mobile, pre-programmed and fueled wards, something you could use in the field without a whole lot of on-site prep-work.  They'd be one-use so once they're deployed they could not be moved without breaking them. 

I could actually see playing a whole character being based off that idea of mobile, off-the-cuff barriers.  Ward charms like that, maybe some varieties of Insta-Circle geared toward specific classes of enemy.  Probably some physically oriented veil-work as well for tangential variety. 

If you boost your Lore and have some focus items, you can do a 'quick ritual' anywhere.  It still takes time, but a 7-shift ward is nothing to sneeze at, especially considering that people who attack the ward can have the damage reflected back.

Pre-programmed wards would be enchanted items limited to your Lore.  You take them out, stick them to a door and they function and are immobile once cast. I don't see why not.  It could get pretty powerful, especially if you make a crafter with 10 shift enchanted items but it's still of limited use because they are limited by session and a 10 shift reactive block is almost always going to come up before a 10-shift ward.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on January 11, 2017, 05:50:40 PM
If you boost your Lore and have some focus items, you can do a 'quick ritual' anywhere.  It still takes time, but a 7-shift ward is nothing to sneeze at, especially considering that people who attack the ward can have the damage reflected back.

Pre-programmed wards would be enchanted items limited to your Lore.  You take them out, stick them to a door and they function and are immobile once cast. I don't see why not.  It could get pretty powerful, especially if you make a crafter with 10 shift enchanted items but it's still of limited use because they are limited by session and a 10 shift reactive block is almost always going to come up before a 10-shift ward.
Im with you.  I might impose an expensive/rare material component for the higher shift items as an added limiter, just to prevent them from spamming them every session without pause. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Londo on January 12, 2017, 08:57:50 AM
Hey guys. This didn't take long, but I'd like a your interpretation on this. In the Paranet Papers and it's talk of mental fortification (ie. inhuman, supernatural and mythic) the requirements are at least the refresh cost in refinement. Does this mean to qualify for the mythic mental you need only the 6 refinements and then inherit the ability, or is the total refresh cost 12. 12 seems very high.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Cadd on January 12, 2017, 11:36:27 AM
It's a prerequisite to purchase, so 12 total (plus the actual spellcasting powers). But remember 2 things:
1) You're talking about Mythic Mental Toughness. This is supposed to be for super-powerful beings and people - I strongly doubt anyone that's not a possible candidate for the Senior Council is meant to have it.
2) You're still getting those refinements, which the Mental Toughness synergizes with. It's not like the refinements are a speedbump of stuff you don't get anything for.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Ghostfreak on February 11, 2017, 12:50:21 PM
Hey fellas! I am looking to see if anyone has did a stat build on Chauncey. The crab demon from fool's moon. Mostly to have an idea of how a demon should be built, especially one who makes it his business to barter to those who summon him.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on February 11, 2017, 11:04:05 PM
Page 35 of Our World has some stats for him.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on February 13, 2017, 04:09:11 PM
How would you stat the Creeper from Jeepers Creepers? Im wanting to do a one off campaign with my players in between their main storyline.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on February 13, 2017, 09:52:34 PM
Also, I have a second question.  When a player earns a new level of refresh, are they able to 'drop' a power for another if they want to as they increase from a focused practitioner to a full blown wizard, if they choose to? Essentially a refund for another?
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Cadd on February 13, 2017, 10:11:50 PM
If it makes sense - yes.

Upgrading by dropping Channeling and buying Evocation is even in the rulebook, as is upgrading the various "building block" powers.

Dropping Claws to buy Inhuman Strength might fly, depending on character theme and how they are described.

Dropping Claws to buy Channeling would not fly at my table.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on February 13, 2017, 11:16:12 PM
Evocation replaces channeling and thaumaturgy replaces ritual
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Sanctaphrax on February 14, 2017, 01:31:49 AM
The rules don't say much about replacing Powers in general, outside of upgrades like Channelling -> Evocation.

If I'm running the game, though, you can swap out whatever Powers you want. Not necessarily right away; sometimes it'd strain plausibility for a Power to appear or disappear. But I'll do my best to cooperate with the changes you want to make to your character.

Dunno anything about Jeepers Creepers.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Mr. Death on February 14, 2017, 01:54:19 AM
The rules don't say much about replacing Powers in general, outside of upgrades like Channelling -> Evocation.

If I'm running the game, though, you can swap out whatever Powers you want. Not necessarily right away; sometimes it'd strain plausibility for a Power to appear or disappear. But I'll do my best to cooperate with the changes you want to make to your character.

Dunno anything about Jeepers Creepers.
Yeah, it depends on the story -- in one of my games, a character gave up his Denarian coin (losing Hellfire, shapeshifting, healing, etc.) and, over the course of the next in-game year, became a pyromantic (with the logic that using the coin opened up some latent, minor talent) and a werewolf (with the logic that using the coin 'taught' him enough that -- with a lot of tutoring -- he could learn to shift on his own).
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Taran on February 14, 2017, 01:29:19 PM
As a player, I try to set up in-game situations that are conducive to refresh changes.  So if I'm going to raise my contacts or change a stunt that allows me to use a different skill for contacts, I tell the GM ahead of time that my character is investing time in that kind of thing. 

So, going from channeling to evocation might require your character to get training or do research in magic or different elements to make the refresh change plausible.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on February 14, 2017, 01:58:30 PM
So, going from channeling to evocation might require your character to get training or do research in magic or different elements to make the refresh change plausible.
Bargains.  You should absolutely make an open-ended bargain with something powerful to get the change in skill set.  Those things always work out for the best :P
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on February 14, 2017, 04:11:52 PM
So, Ive got another simple question.

Im the DM for my group and Im currently working on major players in the Oklahoma region. My players gave me input and I want to surprise them as we go, but so far, Ive come up with this list:

White Court
Native Americans (Skinwalkers I know Q_Q)
Bible Belt

Are there other groups that would be fitting for Oklahoma? Im trying to come up with lots of story material and feel like those hit the big ones but, even then, I cant think of minor ones either.
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on February 14, 2017, 06:28:52 PM
So, Ive got another simple question.

Im the DM for my group and Im currently working on major players in the Oklahoma region. My players gave me input and I want to surprise them as we go, but so far, Ive come up with this list:

White Court
Native Americans (Skinwalkers I know Q_Q)
Bible Belt

Are there other groups that would be fitting for Oklahoma? Im trying to come up with lots of story material and feel like those hit the big ones but, even then, I cant think of minor ones either.
Well, all my family is from Oklahoma, so there are a few ideas.  Not many, because it's an abysmally boring place :P

Dont forget the Fae, especially in Tornado Alley.  There was that mention in BR about how harry did a favor for the Summer Lady involving a rogue Storm Sylph

(click to show/hide)

The other big defining trait of Oklahoma is the oil industry.  There is an oil derrick pumping away in every spare piece of land, and by that I mean there is one in most restaurant parking lots.  So elemental and earth spirits could be cool.  Ancient dinosaur spirits tied to the oil and being disturbed by the fracking.  In particular the recent fracking boom and the apparently associated earthquakes could be some fertile fodder, especially fitting the idea of ancient seals being broken by the recent activity. 

In most other regards Id describe Oklahoma as more of a middle state:  it starts at its southern border as being as much like Texas as you can be without actually being able to claim "Texan", in both landscape and culture, and then it slowly transitions as you go north until it's every bit of what you'd stereotypically expect from Kansas. 
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Second Aristh on February 15, 2017, 03:57:45 AM
So, Ive got another simple question.

Im the DM for my group and Im currently working on major players in the Oklahoma region. My players gave me input and I want to surprise them as we go, but so far, Ive come up with this list:

White Court
Native Americans (Skinwalkers I know Q_Q)
Bible Belt

Are there other groups that would be fitting for Oklahoma? Im trying to come up with lots of story material and feel like those hit the big ones but, even then, I cant think of minor ones either.
Some of these urban legends might be good to draw from also.

8 Urban Legends In Oklahoma Will Keep You Awake At Night (http://www.onlyinyourstate.com/oklahoma/urban-legends-ok/)
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Quantus on February 15, 2017, 01:34:40 PM
Some of these urban legends might be good to draw from also.

8 Urban Legends In Oklahoma Will Keep You Awake At Night (http://www.onlyinyourstate.com/oklahoma/urban-legends-ok/)

Nice!  Those are a gold mine!
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on February 15, 2017, 02:47:17 PM
Nice!  Those are a gold mine!

I am actually using some of those for some campaigns.  I'm using Bigfoot to incorporate our player (whose a Werebear) more into the group by dealing with a pack of them.

The Purple Church I am using in a longterm endgame campaign thatll take a few years as Im looking to make them into followers of Cthulu and wanting to resurrect him!
Title: Re: Ask a simple Question, get a simple Answer!
Post by: Razgrizi on February 15, 2017, 03:03:03 PM
Sorry for all the questions but I had one more simple question!

In the resources, I found this:

MJOLNIR [-3]
Description: Thor's hammer. Enough said.
Musts: You must have an aspect related to your possession of this item.
Skills Affected: Weapons
Effects:
[-0] Purpose. If the wielder is not worthy, Mjolnir becomes too heavy to lift.
[-0] It Is What It Is. A weapon 3 hammer.
[-0] Unbreakable. As an Item of Power, this item cannot be broken except with a magical ritual predicated upon perverting its purpose.
[+2] One-Time Discount. It's a big hammer. Not easy to hide.
[-1] Never Far From Reach. Mjolnir can be thrown as a weapon up to 2 zones away (instead of the standard 1). Upon striking or missing, it returns to its owner's hand on the following exchange. This ability only works when the hammer is thrown. If the hammer caught, stuck, or taken from the bearer the hammer will not magically return.
[-1] True Aim. Mjolnir is a superlative weapon. So long as its bearer is worthy, it provides a +1 bonus to all Weapons rolls.
[-3] The Bigger They Come... Even the World Serpent must fear the impact of Mjolnir. When facing an opponent, the wielder may spend a fate point to ignore all of that opponent's defensive powers and mundane armour for a scene.

In my current longterm story campaign that I am planning, Im planning on a local cult to try to revive Cthulu using a combination of the Necronomicon (at least they think it is), ley lines (I-35/I-40 are the Crossroads of America in Oklahoma) and MJOLNIR as a siphon.  At some point, I am hoping one of my players picks it up. If thats the case, could they continue to upgrade MJOLNIR with new refresh powers? Such as -1 or -2 Lightning Control? Or -2 Flight? Would that be stunts?