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Topics - Kali

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Author Craft / Question for outliners...
« on: February 03, 2012, 04:38:58 PM »
I never outline. Well, almost never. Halfway through a story I might jot down some thoughts on where it could go, or if I get in a tangle I'll think out loud on paper. But now I have these ideas for this epic fantasy I've been wanting to write.  I'm outlining mostly as a way of getting the ideas down so I don't forget them. I'm kind of enjoying this spate of pre-writing. I'm writing sloppy paragraphs like this (none of this is actually in my outline):

Jill goes to well, finds bucket outside on the ground. Problem, she worries about it. Finds bucket dented, smear of blood. Worries Jack's in well, but no sign of him.  Turns to look at distant hill; did he go without her? Turns to go, sees wolf tracks, assumes wolf has Jack. Remembers wolf vowing revenge for 3 pigs incident.  Knows she'll need help. She'll have to go to the woodsman. Afraid of him, poss. former relationship? Will ex help her rescue current boyfriend from big bad wolf?

The question is, how do you know when your outline is enough to fill a book vs. too much for one book? Can you judge book length by your outline?

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Author Craft / Great article on "hooking" readers
« on: June 30, 2011, 10:54:07 PM »
I bought The Writer today (the July 2011 edition) and there was a great article in there I wanted to share and/or talk about.  It's called "Don't Start Your Story With a Strong Hook" by Nick Mamatas, and it's about how writers often *try* to start with a hook, but do it badly or fail altogether.

One part in particular caught my eye:

"Rather than correcting the error of a boring beginning by eliminating the boring beginning or by changing the story's structure so that it is interesting from beginning to end, they simply added some action up top."

Mamatas uses the examples of starting with "...gunfights, monsters, characters cursing (four-letter words are very common story openings these days)..."

I was irresistibly reminded of a lot of the stories I'd read as part of Critters.  In one week, I read six stories all that started with fights that had nothing to do with the rest of the story.  You could eliminate the fights entirely, cut pages from the manuscript, and not have lost a thing except paragraph after paragraph that boils down to "The main character is a bad-ass."

Do you think new writers are trying too hard to find a hook, with the result that they're just gimmicks and not an integral part of the story?  Jim does it right, I think.  Even "The building was on fire, and it wasn't my fault" *was* an integral part of the story because it's basically the end of a short story about how he got Mouse.  It wasn't just a great first line or a great hook, it had a story to tell in itself and one that had a major impact on the rest of the series.

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Author Craft / Great ideas that, in retrospect, aren't
« on: February 16, 2011, 08:20:52 PM »
Didja ever do this?

So, I woke up after a dream and thought, "Wow.  What an interesting basis for a story."  I was so intrigued by the idea, I emailed a friend.

"Three words:" I wrote.  "Post-apocalyptic.  Werewolf.  Porn."

I was advised to up my dosages.  Ok, so Laurell K. pretty much has cornered the werewolf porn market.  There's room for more, right?  Am I right?  Right?!

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Author Craft / [Title of Show] - Essential for the writer
« on: October 04, 2010, 08:24:08 PM »
I have just discovered [Title of Show].  I have no idea how I've missed it for so long, so I post this for those of you who have also somehow missed this.  It's two guys (and eventually two girls) trying to write a musical.  "Monkeys and Playbills" is essential, as is "Die Vampire, Die!" (Je suis whore!).  If you can listen to these songs and not laugh, you've either never had trouble writing and never dreamed about what might happen, or you have no soul.  

I found the whole thing on Rhapsody.  I can't find a decent version of "Monkeys and Playbills" on Youtube (most of the eliminate the beginning which is, IMO, essential to the funny), but here's "Die Vampire, Die!"

There is a kid's version, with all the cursing edited out, but if you ask me, cursing in frustration is part of writing.  And Die Vampire, Die just wouldn't be the same without it.

Here's a sample verse from "Die Vampire, Die" so you'll believe me:
Quote
The last vampire is the mother of all vampires and that is the vampire of despair.
It’ll wake you up at 4am to say things like:
“Who do you think you’re kidding?”
“You look like a fool.”
“No matter how hard you try, you’ll never be good enough.”
Why is it that if some dude walked up to me on the subway platform
and said these things, I’d think he was a mentally ill asshole,
but if the vampire inside my head says it,
It’s the voice of reason?

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Author Craft / The Snowflake Method
« on: September 18, 2010, 04:31:59 PM »
I know a few people have used the Snowflake Method or are using it now.  I'm poking around with it as a way of making sure my plot stays tighter this time than the last time (when I effectively had none). 

I'm wondering, though, if anyone else used it for a first-person POV story.  I'm having a lot of trouble with some of the steps because, for example, in Step 3 where one of the things is to write a paragraph summary of the character's storyline... In a 1st-person story, her storyline is THE storyline.  Is this, then, the same paragraph as the one from Step 2 or should it be something fuller? 

Anyone else have comments on this method, what's worked, what hasn't?

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Author Craft / Beta needed for fanfic!
« on: September 04, 2010, 02:05:08 AM »
In a spasm of writing inspiration, the sequel to "Dead Man's Witch" is almost done.  It's shorter, if that's any comfort, and will probably end up at about 15k or so (Dead Man's Witch was 22k words, by comparison).  It has some White Night spoilers and involves mostly Thomas stuff with Grace, Matt, and a bunch of other minor witch appearances.

I need a beta to doublecheck my spelling and grammar, so, as I always say, please be better with grammar than I am.  Of course any conflicts with established canon should be brought to my attention, too.  This one's not quite as action-packed as my previous story is, but given the setting it'll make sense why not.  I don't recall anywhere in White Night where it's specified when exactly in May that story takes place, but if you can find something, let me know.  This story starts at the end of April and goes to the middle of May.

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Author Craft / Would you finish then edit, or backtrack then finish?
« on: August 30, 2010, 12:56:58 AM »
I'm very close to the end. I have one conversation and then it's the epic final battle, the bad guy loses, the good guys (mostly) win, and then there's the nice little denoument to wrap up everything into a tidy ending.

The thing is, I just today realized what it's going to take to turn the C-plot into a fully-realized, story-strengthening B-plot. I need to add in hints, foreshadowings, a couple of mysterious events that shouldn't be more than a couple of paragraphs, and finally write in one big scene containing a kidnapping, a battle, an unexpected alliance, a rescue, and an armed truce.

Since I'm a dyed-in-the-wool pantser, there's a very good chance that what happens in that big scene will change the ending. Not drastically, but it might change the specifics of what goes down, how it goes down, and how the 1st person viewpoint character reacts to it.

So should I finish, then edit and chance that the ending will have to be completely rewritten to accomodate the new scene? Or should I go back and write in the new scene, then pick up where I've left off and write through to the end? Any advice?

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Author Craft / Author Chats?
« on: June 07, 2010, 11:57:41 PM »
How would others feel about trying to schedule something semi-regularly in the chat room for the authorly set?  We're scattered all over the globe so there's nothing like a time we're absolutely all available, but we can try.  Maybe something late night (eastern US) on weekends?  It'd be nice to know when I can have some hope of not being the only person in the chat room. :)

And we could also have some targeted but open discussions.  We could even post the logs on threads, so people who couldn't be at the discussion could contribute.  We could start with easy stuff, like "Writer's Block", or "Do you outline, why or why not".  The stuff people like to talk about, the stuff that people approach in different ways.  I always think those things are interesting.  Any other ideas?

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DFRPG / MU* game?
« on: May 08, 2010, 03:21:01 PM »
Quite awhile ago, someone was in the process of coding up a MU* version of the RPG.  I'm guessing they stopped since I haven't heard anything.  Now that the books are nigh, is anyone else planning one?  I'm not much of a pen-and-paper person, but I'll play in a MU* if one opens...

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Author Craft / THAT part of the book
« on: April 16, 2010, 09:57:59 PM »
I am at THAT part of the book.  Neil Gaiman wrote about it for NaNo 2007, part of his pep talk.
Quote
By now you're probably ready to give up. You're past that first fine furious rapture when every character and idea is new and entertaining. You're not yet at the momentous downhill slide to the end, when words and images tumble out of your head sometimes faster than you can get them down on paper. You're in the middle, a little past the half-way point. The glamour has faded, the magic has gone, your back hurts from all the typing, your family, friends and random email acquaintances have gone from being encouraging or at least accepting to now complaining that they never see you any more---and that even when they do you're preoccupied and no fun. You don't know why you started your novel, you no longer remember why you imagined that anyone would want to read it, and you're pretty sure that even if you finish it it won't have been worth the time or energy and every time you stop long enough to compare it to the thing that you had in your head when you began---a glittering, brilliant, wonderful novel, in which every word spits fire and burns, a book as good or better than the best book you ever read---it falls so painfully short that you're pretty sure that it would be a mercy simply to delete the whole thing.

Yep, that's the part I'm at.  He goes on to tell a story about how in the middle of "Anasi Boys" he called his agent to tell her that the book sucked, the characters sucked, the story sucked, the plot sucked, he sucked, and he was going to quit writing this book to start another that someone might want to read or possibly to be a bricklayer.  His agent responded, "Oh, you're at that part of the book."  Apparently, he does this on every book, he just hadn't realized it until then.  So, his agent told him, did every other client she has.

So I'm not giving up.  Even though my book sucks, the characters suck, the story sucks, the plot sucks, and I suck.  I figured I probably wasn't the only person to hit this wall, and since I have Gaiman's pep talk linked as a favorite for when I need the pep, I should pass it on.

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Author Craft / Beta Readers for Novel-length work
« on: March 25, 2010, 06:27:55 PM »
I'm only partway through the rewrite of the major things I knew at the outset needed fixing.  The rewrite won't be done anytime in the next couple of week or so, miracles aside.  But I'd like to line up a couple of people now to read through this thing.

The original was just over 50k words, about 115 pages in MS Word.  This version will be longer; though I'm not writing first for length, I do want to end somewhere over 80k.  Fortunately for me, there are several scenes that need to be added.  Sadly, there's one that needs to be taken out in its entirety since it's just bloody awful.

I do want people who can check my spelling and grammar.  I'm good at both, so you'll have to be better.

I'll also want general opinions on the characters and the flow of the storyline.  "I liked it!" will get you shot in the head.  I want a real critique; what worked for you, what didn't.  You should be able to tell me why you liked what you did and why you didn't like what you didn't.

Sorry if this comes across as too blunt, but I really want beta readers who can help me polish this thing for an agent's review.  Oh, you'll also have to be pretty quick with the turnaround because I'll want to keep up my momentum.  It's possible, if it'd be easier on everyone, that I could send it to you in pieces so you'll be reading the first fifty pages while I'm working on the final fifty and the stuff in the middle is waiting to be sent.  I'm honestly not sure how most authors handle the beta process.

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Author Craft / Grammar Question: Song title in text
« on: March 24, 2010, 07:01:28 PM »
I reference the Soundgarden song "Fell On Black Days" repeatedly in text.  What's the proper way to handle this in fiction?  Quotes?  Italics?  Are capital letters enough?  It looks wrong no matter how I do it.

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Author Craft / Butcher quoted by Maass
« on: March 23, 2010, 09:13:46 PM »
So, I've long extolled the excellent advice given by uberagent Donald Maass in his "Writing the Breakout Novel".  Maass and his entire agency has a client list that looks like some kind of Authorial Nirvana:  Jim's there, Elizabeth Bear, Anne Bishop, Diane Duane, Robert McCammon... Let's just say that when it comes to kick-ass fiction, Donald Maass knows whereof he speaks.  Cred:  he's got it.

I had no idea he'd put out a second book last year, but I went out and got it even though I had to clean out my change jar to do it.  This one is called "The Fire in Fiction" and is equally full of moments where you'll smack yourself in the head as he makes it plain exactly how some of the best novelists in the biz are doing what they're doing.

In the section on Scary Monsters, Maass uses Jim's stuff to demonstrate that the way you make a monster scary isn't to pile on the adjectives or splatter the page with gore, it's to make the monster scary TO THE CHARACTERS.

I won't quote the entire two pages here (mostly 'cause I think that much of a quote constitutes a copyright violation) but he starts off by praising Jim:

"The king of humorous horror, though, is undoubtedly Jim Butcher, whose series about down-at-heels Chicago wizard-detective Harry Dresden has soared high on the New York Times best seller list and spun off tthe (sic) Sci-Fi channel TV show The Dresden Files.  Harry's sardonic narration never fails to amuse even if guts are flying and ghouls are dying.  Butcher, indeed, gives the supernatural its sting with that very juxtaposition."

He then provides a passage from White Knight where Harry is talking to Murphy about the current state of the war, then uses the scene where Harry kills the ghouls as an example to highlight the following:

"There's plenty of action in White Knight, including a series of gory ghoul attacks.  Butcher writes violence effectively yet Harry's matter-of-fact narration doesn't aim to shock us, surprise us, or creep us out (much) with visuals.  Butcher knows we've seen it all on TV.  Instead, the horror comes largely from inside Harry; that is, from his feelings."

And in the summary, Maass says:

'What pulls us through White Knight and all the novels in the Dresden Files, I'd argue, is not any macabre fascination with the occult but the innate appeal of Harry Dresden.  What makes Harry compelling?  His sardonic humor, of course, but also his high personal stakes.  Each plot problem matters profoundly and personally to Harry, and therefore it matters to us.  What horrifies him horrifies us."

The entire book is full of these bits of well-illustrated advice, and I emphatically recommend Maass' books to any writer looking for some concrete advice beyond the boring, heard-it-all-before "show don't tell" and "don't use passive verbs".

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Author Craft / 4-month check in: How's your NaNo doing?
« on: March 20, 2010, 04:09:18 PM »
I've tried to go back and edit mine a couple of times, but it never came to anything.  I know what needs fixing, both in specific and in general, but I haven't been able to stand it.  I 'blah' over large chunks of it.  That means even I'M bored with my novel.  Yikes.  That said, I was re-reading Donald Maass's excellent "Writing the Breakout Novel" book and got an epiphany on how to fix a large chunk of the story.

And I finally figured out how to write the beginning correctly.  I've known from the day I set it down that the ending was awful; it meandered, it babbled, it droned on and on.  Now it's better.  Ok, it's no "I opened the door and Morgan fell bleeding at my feet" in terms of media res, but it's much, much better.

Just wondering if anyone else is still working on theirs.

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Author Craft / Beta reader?
« on: January 21, 2010, 11:47:55 AM »
Anyone wanna beta 22 pages (in MS Word) of Dresden fic?  It's not finished yet, but I'm looking for:

- egregious grammatical errors (except those in speech, since people talk all messed up)
- continuity with Dead Beat
- repetition of phrases/words in close proximity.  For example, in the teaser I realized later that I used "sigh" a lot as a verb, and "around us/around him" within the same sentence.  It made things awkward and I sometimes don't catch that stuff until my fourth or fifth edit.

The continuity is most important.  You'll need to be very familiar with the story.  I will note that there shouldn't be anything outrageous; I even bought a new copy of Dead Beat when I started this, just so I'd have a copy to highlight and dogear and margin-note.

There'll be more to review before I'm done.

Oh, and to be picky?  If your spelling and grammar aren't at least as good as I display in my teaser post, please don't offer.  I need someone better than me to check me.

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