Author Topic: Enchanting guns and other tech items?  (Read 22907 times)

Offline Diebdazar

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Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« on: July 30, 2008, 05:13:40 AM »
A player of mine wants to try to enchant her guns, mostly in the form of enchanting automatic weapons to make them immune to a wizard's murphonic field and maybe do bigger bangs.

Also maybe computers and other items.

My first response was "I'll think on it, but likely no." due to the potential of an infinite loop "magic increases chance of something going wrong, pump more magic in to try to decrease chance, but more magic = more chance for something to go wrong" Ad infinitum

But then C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy came to mind.  and I am re-debating the subject with myself.

Would it be possible to 'UnWork' an item so a wizard can use it? To have specially prepared items basically function as if they were in an empowered circle?

What should the costs and side effects be?

Offline Lanodantheon

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 07:04:11 AM »
The key to enchanting or using any magic in The Dresden Files is to think about how it works. The easier it is to understand, the easier it is to implement.

For example: Harry's Shield Bracelet is just that, a shield, a barrier of energy that stops forces cold. Simple, relatively.

The more complicated the system, the more difficult it is to implement magically, the more energy it uses and (typically) the more effective it can potentially be. Enchanting in TDF means that you are creating a permanent system of magic. Either it is a permanent working of energy that augments the item or it is a ground work of "Circuitry" waiting for power.

The Wardens' Silver Swords are permanent systems. But a Sword is a very simple item, a flatten piece of metal with an edge. You can sink that magical system into the metal of the blade and all it does is make the blade sharper and stick around while it disrupts enchantments.

Harry's Rings are a more sophisicated example because they too are a system that continuously maintains itself.

Harry's Bracelet is an example of Magical Circuitry. Harry's Bracelet by itself is just that, a Bracelet. When he pumps magic through it, he gets the desired shield. Same with a computer.

I would recommend in the game that a character need a high academics/mechanics score to be able to make more complex items because you need to now how the item works. You need to be able to answer, "What is the permanent magic doing?" or "What does a magic gun do?" Harry's rings are a battery, Harry's Bracelet a a bit more complicated, a Warden's Sword is merely augmented.

Modifying a gun, you can enchant either the gun or the bullets. Enchanting bullets would be easier, but they would be disposable and if not handle with care very expensive to replace regularly. But, both bullets and guns could be done with creativity to a point.

"What do Magic Bullets do?" The easiest thing to do, In my mind, to bullets magically is to make them indestructible or close to it. Making sure the bullet doesn't break on impact would cause less damage, but you could collect them later and save money. The other thing you could do easy is make Harry's force ring into a bullet. It would be more difficult to implement (and you'd risk blowing yourself up) but you could get one hell of a one-shot pistol grenade. You could even charge it easy too: Make the charger out of a 9 volt battery or the equivalent (Thaumaturgy links) then attach it to the bottom of a rollar coaster car at a local amusement park.
You could also inscribe Magic circuitry into the bullets for coatings like fire or electricity. But, those systems might not even work.
(Would also work great if not better with Arrows)

The best guns to use are the simplest, the ones with the least number of moving parts. Revolvers and double-barrel shotguns in this case are the ones, but if you want an automatic, go with a glock (Only has 22 moving parts) or if you want old school wizard, a Musket.

"What do magic guns do?"
A Magical suppressor inscribed on the barrel would be the simplest. But, the only thing you could really do to a gun magically would be to make the bullets go faster, go farther or (if you really wanted to mess with the CSI guys) make them go in a straight line.

Magical computers just can't work. Not because "It is technology, therefore it cannot work around a Wizard" but because of the magnetics. I've honestly thought about telling you you would need to Macguyver a motherboard and make computer components that run on magic and you would need to be a sensitive, but in the end it comes down to Magnetics. The Hardware of a PC can be duplicated, but the software cannot be. Wizards wipe magnetic storage devices and therefore could not be in the vicinity of a normal hard drive let alone tiny magnetic devices such as Processors with BIOS on them. Without the ability to store and access information, a computer cannot work. Therefore, no magic computers.

Although if I were a wizard I would just get a really long extension cord and go through a lot of mice and keyboards if not make a keyboard out of a typewriter and Macguyver a Trackball.

That's all I got at this wee hour on this subject.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 06:47:11 PM by Lanodantheon »
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Offline jaezon

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 04:09:21 PM »
would they be able to simply put sigils reflecting all magic outward, not allowing any energies to touch upon the gun, even the reflection set upon it?
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Offline TheMouse

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 04:47:47 PM »
would they be able to simply put sigils reflecting all magic outward, not allowing any energies to touch upon the gun, even the reflection set upon it?

That's an idea. You don't so much enchant the gun to work. You ward it against magic. That would have the additional benefit that other wizards would have a harder time using magic to disarm you. On the down side, if someone breaks your ward while you're going auto fire, you might just be having a bad day.

Offline Rel Fexive

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 06:37:18 PM »
One factor to be aware of when using a magical gun is what hand you hold it in.  If I remember rightly, the left takes energy in and the right throws energy out.  So if you hold a "warded to keep Murphyonic disruption away from it" gun in your right hand, your ability to do evocation (or any magic) could be badly compromised, either by dampening it or making it just go everywhere when you try to use it.  Hold it in your left hand, and maybe you can't draw in the energy you need to do magic at all... or it sucks the energy out of you instead.

Both good limitations on use of a magic gun.

Better to make magic bullets (ho ho) instead... with "explosive runes" (of force, or electric) for when they impact.
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Offline Diebdazar

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 08:50:58 PM »
Hrm, good point von Bek

Though 'explosive runes' seems more a Monoc/Miss Gard type of thing :P

Offline Rel Fexive

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2008, 08:56:22 PM »
True.  Oh, and I guess the "suck energy out of you" thing would apply better if you held it in the right hand rather than the left.  I just liked the idea so much I whacked it right in there when I thought of it ;)
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Offline TheMouse

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2008, 08:57:13 PM »
I could see Kincaid wanting to use a gun with normal seeming bullets that explode only when fired from the gun. It's all the advantages of mini-rockets without the hassle of needing to be careful that you don't reduce yourself to slag.

Offline Diebdazar

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 12:19:09 AM »
kincaid + bolters = scary

long as he doesn't get a power-fist? :P

Offline jaezon

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2008, 03:30:36 PM »
One factor to be aware of when using a magical gun is what hand you hold it in.  If I remember rightly, the left takes energy in and the right throws energy out.  So if you hold a "warded to keep Murphyonic disruption away from it" gun in your right hand, your ability to do evocation (or any magic) could be badly compromised, either by dampening it or making it just go everywhere when you try to use it.  Hold it in your left hand, and maybe you can't draw in the energy you need to do magic at all... or it sucks the energy out of you instead.

Both good limitations on use of a magic gun.

Better to make magic bullets (ho ho) instead... with "explosive runes" (of force, or electric) for when they impact.

But if the gun was used by nonwizards who want to just work around wizards,  right v. left shouldn't be much of an issue.
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Offline Lanodantheon

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2008, 06:46:41 PM »
I think you guys have just solved the problem of a magic gun, but have strayed a bit.

would they be able to simply put sigils reflecting all magic outward, not allowing any energies to touch upon the gun, even the reflection set upon it?

JB has established that the Murphonic field a Wizard puts out is not about magical fields and crap, it's just a side affect of being a practitioner. It's Murphy's Law, "Whatever can go wrong will.... Turn on a light switch and it just so happens to be the time for it to burn out."

Besides, I reread some books and realized that Carlos uses a Colt 1911. That means only really sophisticated guns could potentially bork in the hands of a wizard, but still they would probably have a higher percentage of jamming and need to be cleaned more often.

The solution to the problem of enchanting a gun is exactly that, have magic go through every part of the gun. It would mean that you would have to handmake your gun or at least be there to chisel in the runes on a lathe or something. On top of that, Warding the parts of the gun can do more than just protect against outside magic (Which I think is cool BTW Mouse) you could make it into a complex security feature. Tailor it correctly and have it be the ultimate ID system & Safety. Wardens would be able to keep the guns from being fired and (adding on what I've said before) use Magic Circuitry to power spells that reduce things like muzzle jump, recoil and friction on the bullet (Increasing accuracy) and change the trajectory of the bullets. I still personally would love to see a magic gun that fires in a straight line or at least a less parabolic trajectory. Or, if you were a wizard with a physics degree (High Academics) you could make a system that allowed you to alter the trajectory of the bullets that you fire into weird patterns allowing you to shoot around corners or "Curve the bullet" like in Wanted. It would be all about physics and geometry.

Random thought: You could also use wind magic to create a momentary(fraction of a second) vacuum in the direction of fire that would really mess with the physics of the gunshot.

However, this kind of gun could only be used by a practitioner who can control the flow of magic through the circutry like Harry. Minor talents and normals like Kincaid and Murphy would be Out of Luck.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 06:48:42 PM by Lanodantheon »
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Offline TheMouse

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2008, 07:17:41 PM »
One idea that comes out of this is a focussed practitioner who was pretty much a gun-fu expert. He uses a pair of six shooters, since they're simple enough that the murpyonic field is no threat to them.

(:

Offline Lanodantheon

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2008, 04:37:25 AM »
One idea that comes out of this is a focussed practitioner who was pretty much a gun-fu expert. He uses a pair of six shooters, since they're simple enough that the murpyonic field is no threat to them.

(:

That is a cool idea. I like it...

 ;D
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Offline Diebdazar

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2008, 05:17:48 AM »
Though I wonder if a flintlock or wheelock would be more prone to the murphyonic field than a modern firearm, since there's more that "could go wrong". . .

Offline Lanodantheon

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Re: Enchanting guns and other tech items?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2008, 06:34:47 PM »
Though I wonder if a flintlock or wheelock would be more prone to the murphyonic field than a modern firearm, since there's more that "could go wrong". . .

Nope, exactly the opposite. The simpler, more primitive the technology, the less likely it is to fail around wizards. Flintlocks, wheelocks, and hell even matchlocks would be much more reliable to a wizard. A flintlock musket has like 5 parts to it:
1. The Barrel
2. The Hammer
3. The Flint (Attached to the Hammer)
4. The Trigger
5. The Powder & Ball

Flintlocks don't really jam, they either fire or they don't.

A Glock pistol has about 22 moving parts, far more than that Flintlock. Also, the Glock is at the simplest automatic pistol on the market, after that it only goes up. However, Carlos seems to be able to use a Colt M1911 without much trouble, but anything complex than that may be prone to disastrous failure.

Harry can use a revolver just fine because of how simple it is. However, he does warn in like Blood Rites I think it is (When he's going after Black Court with Kincaid) that he would never pick up a full-automatic rifle out of fear it would gangfire or outright explode in his hands. That's my take on Wizards using guns.
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