Author Topic: Marcone and the Castle  (Read 948 times)

Offline Mira

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Marcone and the Castle
« on: February 03, 2026, 01:40:15 PM »

 

  We don't know at this time exactly when Marcone took up Namshiel's coin, but I believe that when he decided to buy a castle and bring it to Chicago to be reconstructed over the ruins of Harry's boarding house, Namshiel directed him to which castle to buy.  As in it's no coincidence that that castle just happened to have belonged to or was set up by Merlin.  Harry told Bob when he expressed concern that there might have been reconstruction problems affecting what Harry was about to do as far as defenses go.  Harry's answer was that Marcone was a lot of things, but he wasn't incompetent and he had Namshiel's help doing it.  We saw what the castle was capable of doing defense wise in the hands and staff of a capable wizard.  So my question is, why during the Battle of Chicago was the castle damaged at all?  Did Marcone/Namshiel ignore the need to set up Merlin's wards?  I find it hard to believe they didn't know about them.  Did Marcone think they would never be needed?  Did Marcone need an entity like Bob to set them up?  Or as Harry chided him at the end of Battleground, that even though his coin belongs to a powerful fallen angel wizard, Marcone was still an amature?

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2026, 05:05:05 PM »
I think it's that the castle needs a spirit of intellect.

Offline Mira

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2026, 07:10:19 PM »
Quote
I think it's that the castle needs a spirit of intellect.
[/quote

Did Merlin have one?  You would still think that Namshiel could have come up with one, or foreseen the need for one.  Because without the wards, the castle was simply an impressive residence.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2026, 11:57:13 PM »
I think their was some functionality to the wards without a spirit of intellect.

I don't know how common spirits of intellect are. We've only heard of three on page  and the goddess Athena according to WoJ. And we do know that while Evil Bob serves, he doesn't have to. He offered to betray Corpsetaker and take Harry as an apprentice.

Offline Mira

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2026, 03:12:18 PM »
I think their was some functionality to the wards without a spirit of intellect.

I don't know how common spirits of intellect are. We've only heard of three on page  and the goddess Athena according to WoJ. And we do know that while Evil Bob serves, he doesn't have to. He offered to betray Corpsetaker and take Harry as an apprentice.

My point is though, is apparently Marcone when he owned the castle either wasn't aware, or was unable to make use of Merlin's wards.  Odd in that he was hosting a fallen angel with top wizard skills.  I'd like to know how this particular castle was selected to be purchased and brought over here.

Offline prince lotore

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2026, 04:56:15 PM »
I don't think anyone was expecting things to kick off that night.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body
thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a
ride!

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2026, 05:03:00 PM »
Ethniu attacked from inside the castle and was invited in, so that needs to be taken into account.

I think the castle needs a spirit of intellect to be fully operational and they are probably hard to come by.

I'd guess this castle was the best Marcone could get his hands on even without using a spirit of intellect.

Offline Xamion

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2026, 06:41:35 PM »
We are forgetting, that Harry is not actually "good" at quick-magic (he cheats via stupendous brute forcing of magic juice with his tremendous power reserves and physical stamina), and especially not large scale or complex ones, like controlling the various "systems" incorporated into Merlin's tower seems to require. So I think it is actually possible for a single wizard to operate all the defenses, if they're good at that sort of thing. I would expect that it does not even have to be a spirit of intellect specifically, that would be required to be a stand-in for such skills, either, e.g. perhaps someone/something like the gargoyles may be able to do it too, or at least specific parts of it. And potentially, he could perhaps achieve the same level of control of those systems Bob has, but he'd need a bit of prep time for a more "serious" ritual to temporarily connect to them more directly, since with the battle at the end he only had like half an hour's worth of warning?

Offline Tinfoil hat

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2026, 07:40:59 AM »
My point is though, is apparently Marcone when he owned the castle either wasn't aware, or was unable to make use of Merlin's wards.  Odd in that he was hosting a fallen angel with top wizard skills.  I'd like to know how this particular castle was selected to be purchased and brought over here.
I think that marcone knew about the wards but was not yet ready to do what Harry could. Remember that Marcone most likely doesn't have the skills to pull this off. Not the knowledge Nam has the knowledge. Not sure of  their relationship and how much control Nam has over Marcone. The closest analogue I can think of is a person having an accident and having to relearn to walk. Marcone has to build up his skills and focus step by step in spite having the knowledge all ready.
Plus Marcone probably has to prioritize combat magic over the more subtle type of magic.

Offline Mira

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2026, 01:09:55 PM »
I think that marcone knew about the wards but was not yet ready to do what Harry could. Remember that Marcone most likely doesn't have the skills to pull this off. Not the knowledge Nam has the knowledge. Not sure of  their relationship and how much control Nam has over Marcone. The closest analogue I can think of is a person having an accident and having to relearn to walk. Marcone has to build up his skills and focus step by step in spite having the knowledge all ready.
Plus Marcone probably has to prioritize combat magic over the more subtle type of magic.

I think Marcone had the castle at least five years, which isn't a short time. 

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2026, 11:03:30 PM »
I think Marcone had the castle at least five years, which isn't a short time.
Yeah. My only guess at your questions, which are great by the way, is two fold.
  • The castle requires a spirit of intellect to be fully operational, and those are extremely rare.
  • Ethniu being invited and attacking from the inside drastically lowered the effectiveness of any wards.

Harry does say that the wards are based on the threshold, so once one is inside, the wards don't do much. The other defenses of the Castle probably require a spirit of intellect.

Offline edf

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2026, 12:28:00 PM »
Harry does say that the wards are based on the threshold, so once one is inside, the wards don't do much. The other defenses of the Castle probably require a spirit of intellect.

It's likely a combination of factors.  First off,  Bob is a fairly unique resource.  Second, Marcone didn't really appear to live in the castle and he had mercs traipsing in and out all the time. Harry has used it like a home with families that have been living there for months without going out much.   We don't know how long it takes for thresholds to form, but Harry has suggest that a bachelor's pad or business doesn't hold a candle to one that has real families making it a home.   Last, Marcone didn't really want to reveal his association or abilities to the gathered powers.   I'd guess Marcone was both taken by surprise and wanting to see what the others did.   

Offline g33k

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 09:07:14 PM »
I suspect Namshiel may be on a redemption arc, un-Falling.
Or at least is being an ally-of-convenience against the Outsiders, working with Uriel (or other unFallen angels).

1. If he was such a badass angel-wizard, how could Harry have beaten him back at first meeting in the Shedd?  Soulfire was brand-new to Harry, but well-known to Thorny; angels are essentially pure soul, so Thorny has *WAY* more magic muscle to throw around in that particular arm-wrestling match, and it's his "native tongue" so to speak, utterly familiar to him for millions of years.

Maybe ... Thorned Namshiel threw that fight?

2. It's just way, way too convenient for Merlin's Castle to have been imported from Europe to the shores of Lake Michigan and set up precisely atop Harry's old laboratory, just in time for the Warden of Merlin's Well to return, and take the Castle off Marcone's hands.

I can only conclude that Thorned Namshiel wanted Dresden in possession of the Castle!

Taken together, these sure make it look like Namshiel is working on the same side as Harry...

Offline Mira

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #13 on: Today at 05:37:44 PM »
Quote
1. If he was such a badass angel-wizard, how could Harry have beaten him back at first meeting in the Shedd?  Soulfire was brand-new to Harry, but well-known to Thorny; angels are essentially pure soul, so Thorny has *WAY* more magic muscle to throw around in that particular arm-wrestling match, and it's his "native tongue" so to speak, utterly familiar to him for millions of years.

 At the Shedd, Soul Fire, if I remember correctly came as a complete surprise to Harry, he had no idea he had been gifted with it, let alone know what it was.  He didn't find out about that until later at the hospital and "Jake the Janator" aka Uriel informed him of it, and was very vague about it.  It wasn't until Bob tried to explain it, did Harry have much of a clue, it's only now that he seems to have gotten a bit of a handle on how to use it.  At the Shedd, Thorny had no clue either that Harry had it, so he was taken completely by surprise..  It was the surprise at that point that gave Harry the advantage against Thorny at the Shedd.

Quote
I suspect Namshiel may be on a redemption arc, un-Falling.
Or at least is being an ally-of-convenience against the Outsiders, working with Uriel (or other unFallen angels).

I seriously doubt that Namshiel is working with Uriel, or that Uriel would work with him. I don't think his Boss would approve.  Now Marcone on the other hand could be on the redemption road, but only if he eventually rejects the coin and works at it

Quote
2. It's just way, way too convenient for Merlin's Castle to have been imported from Europe to the shores of Lake Michigan and set up precisely atop Harry's old laboratory, just in time for the Warden of Merlin's Well to return, and take the Castle off Marcone's hands.

I can only conclude that Thorned Namshiel wanted Dresden in possession of the Castle!

Taken together, these sure make it look like Namshiel is working on the same side as Harry...

You could be right about Namshiel being behind Marcone just happening to aquire Merlin's Castle, and putting it at the site of where Harry lived over his old lab.  While I believe your logic for it might be right, but your conclusion is faulty.

It's logical that Namshiel would want a fortress like Merlin's Castle to work out of, he may have wanted it for a long time. He finally has a host, i.e. Marcone, who actually had the financial backing and means of making it happen.  Reread the bit in Twelve Months where Harry does the "Wizard of Oz" trick using the leylines under the castle as a power source, when he warns the vanilla demonstrators.  That's why Namshiel wanted that particular location, the leylines that just happen to cross where Harry's basement lab was located.  Oh another reason, remember Lea's garden is also located at that particular location.  Result there is no reason to conclude that Namshiel is working or attempting to work on the same side as Harry based on the evidence presented.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Marcone and the Castle
« Reply #14 on: Today at 08:10:15 PM »
Lea moves her garden to wherever Harry sleeps. The Garden is probably a weakness if it stays because Harry can get there and there would be no escape into the Never Never for Marcone.

I thought the castle was able to draw the ley line in, not that it was there.