Mab (?) in Twelve Months

[Mira]

I don't think Demonreach has a mantle-stripping quality.
I know it's a fan-favorite, as a way to "rescue" Molly, or etc.  Demonreach has a  crapton  of power, but entirely lacks the finesse and the understanding of Humanity that would be needed to separate a Mantle.

  I don't think it has to have, I think the mantle on it's own accord would go to the nearest available vessel.

[Dina]

Again, we don't know. My feeling is, no, the mantle would not leave Mab unless she somehow can shake it, which I don't think is possible (unless very specific circumstances happen, at least)

[Mira]

Again, we don't know. My feeling is, no, the mantle would not leave Mab unless she somehow can shake it, which I don't think is possible (unless very specific circumstances happen, at least)

Which putting her in one of Demonreach's cells would, be very special circumstances. 

[g33k]

  I don't think it has to have, I think the mantle on it's own accord would go to the nearest available vessel.

Doubtful.
Demonreach is all about capturing Powers.  If Harry were to genuinely target Mab, her Mantle would be captured (stripped of  her Mantle, Mab is likely a broken mortal shell).

[Mira]

Doubtful.
Demonreach is all about capturing Powers.  If Harry were to genuinely target Mab, her Mantle would be captured (stripped of  her Mantle, Mab is likely a broken mortal shell).

  However, that's what happens anyway, I don't think that Mother Winter was Queen before Mab, sounds like she has always been at the job.  Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Mother Winter has stripped other Queens of their mantle in favor of a new one. 

[Xamion]

  However, that's what happens anyway, I don't think that Mother Winter was Queen before Mab, sounds like she has always been at the job.  Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Mother Winter has stripped other Queens of their mantle in favor of a new one.

Mother Winter can be called/summoned/contacted using three different goddesses' names. This to me implies that the Mother Winter "mantle" (if it even really is one) is much more powerful than any other mantle we've seen so far, and almost certainly would completely consume and replace the potential vessel, personality and all.

I do agree though that she was there way before the concept of Winter Queens or Ladies (if not faerie courts themselves) was ever created in the Dresdenverse.

[g33k]

Mother Winter can be called/summoned/contacted using three different goddesses' names. This to me implies that the Mother Winter "mantle" (if it even really is one) is much more powerful than any other mantle we've seen so far, and almost certainly would completely consume and replace the potential vessel, personality and all.

I do agree though that she was there way before the concept of Winter Queens or Ladies (if not faerie courts themselves) was ever created in the Dresdenverse.

There's a relevant WoJ:

1. the mothers – how does a queen become a mother? like after a thousand yrs, old winter dies and mab becomes the new mother?
Essentially abdication.  The previous mother wearies of her duty and moves along.  There’s been one new Mother Summer during recorded human history.  Mother Winter has never retired.

^{-- https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-the-fae/}

So one Mother Summer has voluntarily retired, but Mother Winter never.

[Mira]

[quote
So one Mother Summer has voluntarily retired, but Mother Winter never.
][/quote]

Recorded human history is a very long time..  Also you have to define "recorded," because the paintings on the walls of caves, while not "writing," does record what was at the time they were painted.  Bottom line?  While Mother Summer has been replaced once, and Mother Winter, never,  Mab has only been queen a thousand years or so, so there had to have been other Queens. We don't know if Titania has been replaced.

[g33k]

... We don't know if Titania has been replaced.

We do, though -- Mab & Titania were born twins.  Presumably they became fae around the same time, with a pair of Ladymantles.

We have "over a thousand years" that Mab has been Mab (i.e. Queen of Winter) and I suspect, particular, it was about 1330 years ago (roughly Arthurian era) -- because that's 2x the 666year Starborn/Outsider cycles (rounded down to the nearest decade).  Those big Outsider-Wars are hard on the Fae.  Or maybe go for 3 of those cycles, and we're back to the time of Yeshua son of Mary ...

We don't know how long Mab & Titania were Ladies, though.  Immortals, they could have lasted a long time!
Even the names aren't great clues -- "Mab" is Celtic(Brythonic) in origin, "Titania" is Latin, first recorded in Ovid.
Maybe a Celt/Roman couple who had twins, and named one for each background?

But in any case, the Queens have been replaced much more than the Mothers have;
and the Ladies more-often still;
and the Knights get used up like a box of Kleenex during cold-season.

[Dina]

We know that Mab rode with the Conqueror, but we don't know if she was already Mab.

Also, the knights are mortals, so of course they come and go all the time.

[Mira]

  I had forgotten that Mab and Titania were born twins, I just remembered that Maeve and Sarissa were also twins.  Hmm.. Wonder if Aurora was also a twin?  Though I doubt it.

[g33k]

We know that Mab rode with the Conqueror, but we don't know if she was already Mab ...

Just so.
Now, what I'm wondering is:  which "Conqueror"?
Honestly:  I think most of the fans presume William of Normandy; I myself am much less sure.

For one thing: this snippet comes from Ethniu, who despises mortals!  I don't think she'd adopt so fanciful (and basically respectful) a title to describe any mortal whatsoever.
 

[Mira]

Just so.
Now, what I'm wondering is:  which "Conqueror"?
Honestly:  I think most of the fans presume William of Normandy; I myself am much less sure.

For one thing: this snippet comes from Ethniu, who despises mortals!  I don't think she'd adopt so fanciful (and basically respectful) a title to describe any mortal whatsoever.

However Mab was mortal at some point, was she a Lady of Winter or Queen of Winter when she had her children by a mortal man?