[12M spoiler] From thirteen puppets you are now twelve?

[Xamion]

IMO the Red King is (was?) absolutely an Outsider ally, but is not one of the 13 "nemfectors", same as Lord Raith.

Red Court vamps are with 99.9% certainty a similar "hybrid" and/or parasite state of "lesser" outsiders with mortals, like the White Court are, especially given the fact they've had much more blatant/obvious Outsider theming and influence throughout the series.

There's also one crucial fact to consider... do these 13 nemfectors have to permanently inhabit a single someone/something in the material world, or can they infect multiple beings, but can only actively control/observe through one of them at a time each?
I don't think this was ever actually clearly stated or clarified/mentioned in the stories nor WoJ.

[Bad Alias]

I do not think they are wholly outsiders though. They were the spawn of the outsider and a human, so they are something in between maybe?

Can you remember if it was clear if they died or was sent to the outside when the host dies?

That's the impression I got from 12 Months. I'll have to reread it soon.

So Lara says the Hungers die. Thomas's Hunger says they go into the void, which I took to be Outside.

Kurtin, I think once a host dies, Nemesis is free to infect another. I think Mab captured the one in Lea.

[Mira]

  I think Mab was talking about Nemesis, she was able to "kill" the one that was possessing Lea, that was puppet number 13.
  She now says she will attempt the same cure on Justine, who apparently is also possessed by Nemesis, so that would be puppet number 12.

What is confusing is at the end of Battleground when Harry confronts Justine on the boat just as they get to Demonreach, it is an Outsider who apparently is possessing Justine. An Outsider who Harry confronts.   Now is Nemesis just another name for Outsider soldiers or knights?  Or was Nemesis possessing Justine along with the Outsider and really running the show?  Or did the Outsider leave Justine and Nemesis take over when she fled?  She is still possessed by Nemesis and that's puppet number 12 that Mab speaks about.

[Bad Alias]

Nemesis is the Outsider He Who Walks Beside.

[KurtinStGeorge]

  I think Mab was talking about Nemesis, she was able to "kill" the one that was possessing Lea, that was puppet number 13.
  She now says she will attempt the same cure on Justine, who apparently is also possessed by Nemesis, so that would be puppet number 12.

What is confusing is at the end of Battleground when Harry confronts Justine on the boat just as they get to Demonreach, it is an Outsider who apparently is possessing Justine. An Outsider who Harry confronts.   Now is Nemesis just another name for Outsider soldiers or knights?  Or was Nemesis possessing Justine along with the Outsider and really running the show?  Or did the Outsider leave Justine and Nemesis take over when she fled?  She is still possessed by Nemesis and that's puppet number 12 that Mab speaks about.

This is just my impression Mira, but as Bad Alias says I think Nemesis is The Outsider.  Whether it is the Optimist Prime of Outsiders; the first or original one of its kind, or just the current King or strongest of the Outsiders I doubt that it matters very much.  Human kings and queens have very rarely made it to six decades in power and two decades was often a very good run for many of them.  Even if Nemesis is only the current ruler of the Outsiders, its reign might already be measured in tens of thousands of years. 

When I use the word King, that doesn't mean I think of Outsiders  are organized in the same manner as human kingdoms.  It could be that Nemesis is just so strong it can command other outsiders to do it's bidding for fear of what will happen to them if they don't obey. 

I also don't know if the Walkers are distinctive individuals or simply different aspects of Nemesis.  Nemesis called itself He Who Walks Beside.  Maybe it is also HWWBf and HWWB but at different times or in different situations.

[Bad Alias]

Lash called He Who Walks Behind a "terrible creature, the most potent of the Walkers, a powerful knight among their [Outsiders] ruling entities." Nemesis would therefore be weaker than He Who Walks Behind.

[Dina]

Nemesis is the Outsider He Who Walks Beside.

This. And Mab said she vanquishes one so I think what happened is that she literally sent the thing in Lea to the Outside. I don't know how but the tricky part seems to be to capture the host and split it from Nemesis, because just killing the host means that Nemesis is free to conquer another one. Instead,  if it is sent to the outside, it can't be back (at least, for now Mab is operating as if sending it to the outside removes it from the game).
I also think Nemesis has puppets in all the major groups. That is why I said it would be funny if there was a nemfected blampire who was casually squashed by Harry. But in truth, I think Drakul would have probably spot the puppet.

Kurtis, I know you meant Optimus, but your Optimistic made me laugh. Self-correct, right?

[prince lotore]

My question is if mab removed the outsider from Lea how did it get into Maeve and cat sith. If it can jump around like that why stay in Justine after it's cover was blown. If the corruption lasts after it leaves why stay in a chick with no powers. And if they can be caught and contained why just kill Maeve why not try to get the outsider as well. Also is cat sith on ice if so why not say 11. Wouldn't saying 12 when it was 11 be a lie

[Dina]

I imagine Cat Sith is on the wind and I am not sure if Nemesis just jumping from a host won't kill it. I am not sure why it remained in Justine, but I imagine it has something to do with the baby.

[Bad Alias]

Already you feel the part of you imprisoned, and what it suffers. I will double that and more, thing.

Based on this, it seems clear that the 1/13th that was in Lea isn't banished, but captured. I got the impression it is imprisoned in the blade.

My question is if mab removed the outsider from Lea how did it get into Maeve and cat sith. If it can jump around like that why stay in Justine after it's cover was blown. If the corruption lasts after it leaves why stay in a chick with no powers. And if they can be caught and contained why just kill Maeve why not try to get the outsider as well. Also is cat sith on ice if so why not say 11. Wouldn't saying 12 when it was 11 be a lie

I think the reason for killing Maeve is that Mab needs a Winter Lady and Maeve can't be involuntarily cured.

I don't think the corruption lasts after it leaves. This makes me think it was heavily focused on infecting Winter and/or getting to Demonreach. Everyone infected except Lea was related to getting into Demonreach.

[Dina]

Agree with Winter and Demonreach.

I also thought Mab had trapped the one in Lea, but she then said "vanquished" and I am not sure what the word implies in this case.

[Bad Alias]

Agree with Winter and Demonreach.

I also thought Mab had trapped the one in Lea, but she then said "vanquished" and I am not sure what the word implies in this case.

Vanquished means defeated.

[Dina]

Ok, then I am back thinking Mab captured Lea 1/13 and she expects to have Justine one soon too.

[Snark Knight]

It is possible that five Nemesis puppets are dead and two have or are on the way to becoming to being cured.  That would leave six left, at a minimum.

The fraction of it that was in hosts who were killed could presumably return to circulation, though.  Just a guess, but death of the host might return the possessing fragment to the outside, necessitating either being summoned back by mortal cultists or sneaking through the gates ... depending on turnaround time, a given fragment might have been responsible for multiple of the known infections.

Vitto Malvora is another possible candidate, although I tend to think his arrangement was with Before and his body ended up as the foundation of Sharkface.  Madrigal and/or Madeline Raith might also be possibilities ... Madrigal in particular, since changing to a fear-eater against his House' usual predilection as lust-eaters could be Nemesis changing his nature.