True Love's Protection

[Dina]

I'll be surprised if we get any explanation that's satisfying.  Well, beyond a long internal monologue by Dresden that rests on a foundation built on a reading of 'All You Need is Love.'  I'm not expecting the readers will get anything close to an explanation of how the universe Butcher has built all works and comes together logically (even one that's at the descriptive/predictive/Newton level and not at the fundamental/'why does it work that way' level). 

After Twelve Months, I have a creeping feeling that the conclusion of the Dresden Files will reveal that the entire series was 'True Love Conquers the Outsiders.'  If that's all there is, then let's just keep reading and hope for a rollicking, enjoyable remainder for this yarn even if at the end we're left with a lot of Lost-esque unresolved loose threads.

I am ok with True Love Conquers the Outsiders but I hope the unresolved loose threads are not "a lot".

[Bad Alias]

There's so many loose threads, I don't see how he ties them all up. Even if a vast majority of loose threads were tied up, I think that would still leave room for a lot of loose threads.

[Lord Kinbote]

I am ok with True Love Conquers the Outsiders but I hope the unresolved loose threads are not "a lot".

Maybe I could be OK with 'True Love Conquers the Outsiders' (though I much prefer a resolve that's less of a trope), but so far only True Romantic Love has proven to have a negative effect on Outsiders.  The love for one's children hasn't been shown to have any effect on White Court Hunger, and the lore certainly doesn't suggest that it does.  True Romantic Love, maybe also required to be reciprocated and the relationship consummated, as the Outsiders' silver bullet would certainly be an interesting choice.

[Mira]

Maybe I could be OK with 'True Love Conquers the Outsiders' (though I much prefer a resolve that's less of a trope), but so far only True Romantic Love has proven to have a negative effect on Outsiders.  The love for one's children hasn't been shown to have any effect on White Court Hunger, and the lore certainly doesn't suggest that it does.  True Romantic Love, maybe also required to be reciprocated and the relationship consummated, as the Outsiders' silver bullet would certainly be an interesting choice.

 

Problem with that, what Thomas and Justine have is supposed to be true love yet she is possessed by Nemesis or an Outsider.  So because she had a one night bisexual stand so she and Thomas could have sex, all protection was lost?  Or was she possessed before, and true love didn't protect her from being possessed?  Also if what Thomas said was right in Blood Rites, the Hunger Demon is only burnt out by true love if the host had never has that first feeding, especially until death. I would have to go back an read, but the killing of the victim if I remember was a key factor on whether or not the Hunger Demon can take control.  However if the host merely nibbles and not kill, does the demon still survive but the drive to feed not as urgent?  I am thinking that the true love thing might be merely a rabbit hole that we are being sent down.

One more point;
The fact that Justine is possessed by Nemesis puts an end to the theroy some have had that Outsiders or Nemesis cannot possess humans. 

[Dina]

Yes, you are right Mira. It is clear that True Love does not protect from nemfection, or that previously nemfected people cannot feel True Love and be protected by it. About the burning, I think true Love killed the hunger in the unexperienced vampire, no matter if they killed the first feed or not. Only, it is very difficult for that vampire not to kill, as he has not experience in control.

[Mira]

Yes, you are right Mira. It is clear that True Love does not protect from nemfection, or that previously nemfected people cannot feel True Love and be protected by it. About the burning, I think true Love killed the hunger in the unexperienced vampire, no matter if they killed the first feed or not. Only, it is very difficult for that vampire not to kill, as he has not experience in control.

 As I said, have to go back and reread, but I am almost positive that the emphases was on the killing part of the first feed.  That's why he and Lara were so worried about their little sister, because Lord Raith would get them worked up at about the age she was, nothing was said about that feeding could lead to killing, and that killing would forever enslave them to the Hunger Demon.

[Bad Alias]

If their first time is True Love, then the Hunger dies. It doesn't matter if the first feeding is fatal. Irwin and Connie didn't have true love, but the feeding didn't kill Irwin because he has so much life force.

[Mira]

If their first time is True Love, then the Hunger dies. It doesn't matter if the first feeding is fatal. Irwin and Connie didn't have true love, but the feeding didn't kill Irwin because he has so much life force.

I just reread the parts of Blood Rites where Thomas talks about the first feeding, he says that the first feeding is always fatal. 
That White Court kids are like any other kids until their Hunger wakes up, then the danger comes to them, but apparently there is a choice. However that's a bit vague, Thomas says they are forbidden under Lord Raith's orders to explain that to the kids, so they have that first feeding, killing the victim and are hooked.  So apparently Jim altered that explanation. I could include quotes but don't have time this morning but I will if you want.  Harry did burn Inari when she tried to feed on him and Thomas explained that one as well.  He said that if true love passed between him and in this case Susan during sex though it was over a year in the past at the time Blood Rites came out and he was with no other women, he was protected by that love.  So you'd think because Harry and Murphy had sex in Peace Talks that Harry should still be protected, but he isn't.

Connie didn't kill Irwin because he had too much life force?  Really?  You'd think it would be a banquet for Connie's Hunger Demon and it would want even more.  I thought that was the point when Harry fed Lara's Hunger demon, so is Connie now slave to Irwin?  We know from Summer Knight that Harry was severely depressed after Susan left him and felt guilt and self loathing because he couldn't find a cure for her, this went on for months, yet the true love that passed between them the last time they had sex was enough not only to burn Inari, but to burn Lara five years later.. So Lara's claim that she had just fed and canceled out the protection doesn't compute, neither does Mab's explanation that Harry's current state of grief, self loathing, and guilt hold up.  Only other explanation is that true love hadn't passed between Harry and Murphy that last time.  Something had changed, no final reading on the soul gaze because she died before Harry could get a reading on how she really felt.   Yeah, that one left vague on purpose, you'd think the first thing Harry saw as brief as it was would be her final thoughts of love for him.  One thought is maybe getting a Holy Sword broken in her own arrogance and being so badly injured had altered Murphy's feelings somewhat, maybe enough to affect the true love she supposedly felt for Harry.  Makes sense if you go with Mab's explanation, maybe Murphy was going through some guilt and self loathing of her own in those last days.  Wouldn't be the first time, she took to the bottle for a while after Nightmare got finished with her. 

 Also in the final pages of Blood Rites, it is explained to Harry that if Inari and her boyfriend truly love each other during that first sex act, it will block her Hunger demon, and apparently just burn it out, freeing her forever from it.  Which if what Lara says in 12 Months is true, it has, Inari is happily married with three normal vanilla kids.

[Bad Alias]

“The first time they feed, they don’t really know it’s coming. They have no control over it, no restraint—and whoever they feed on dies as a result.”

“Because the last time I helped Irwin out, I remember being struck by the power of his aura when he was only fourteen. A long-term draining spell that should have killed him only left him sleepy

“My point is,” I said, “the kid’s got a life force like few I’ve seen. When Connie’s Hunger awakened, she fed on him without any kind of restraint, and he wound up with nothing worse than a hangover. Could be that he could handle a life with her just fine.”

“It means that what his father told him was a lie. It means that maybe he didn’t have to be like he is. It means that he’s been lying to himself. About everything.” River Shoulders spread his hands, palms up, as if presenting the fact. “That kind of father has to make his children in his own image. He has to make the lie true.

What Thomas said doesn't matter. If a White Court vampire feeds on a human without restraint, the feeding is fatal. Every first time is without restraint because they don't know to restrain themselves. It's possible that the first feeding doesn't have to be fatal at all. It's a lie told to every member of the White Court. Most probably even believe it.

The reason Connie's first feeding wasn't fatal is that she didn't feed on a human. She fed on a Bigfoot with an insane amount of energy.

Connie could be enslaved to Irwin, but I think the direct feeding without sex that she's doing with Harry is different. Like the difference between a liquid diet and eating solid food. Her Hunger can't get that kind of feeding even if she kills.