Author Topic: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes  (Read 1659 times)

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2026, 03:26:23 AM »
Or some intentional continuity errors because of some multiverse or time travel plot element. I don't really see that, but a lot of people think so.

There's a WOJ about a very small number of continuity changes being a Hint towards something.  In a lot of cases though, it does come down to he forgets which version of some previous book was a draft and which got published.

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2026, 03:35:47 AM »
There's a WOJ about a very small number of continuity changes being a Hint towards something.  In a lot of cases though, it does come down to he forgets which version of some previous book was a draft and which got published.
I don't recall that one.

Offline TrueMonk

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2026, 11:51:12 AM »
I think Lara only has something to win by saying no every time Harry asks if she knows something about magic. Then she gets to learn by having him explain it and maybe some day have an edge because Harry thinks she has no knowledge of magic when actually she has some.

I cannot see what she has to win by saying yes, she knows.

I think it is understandable that Harry forgot with the state he is in.

Offline g33k

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2026, 04:33:33 AM »
...
I think it is understandable that Harry forgot with the state he is in.
Perhaps; but can she be sure of his state?
Lara, after all:  was also present!
So she knows that Harry knows, somewhere inside.

As he "comes back to himself," she must realize that Harry's going to recognize that she has been "playing dumb" (if that's what was going on).

(of course, now that Harry has "turned the tables," that may not matter so much)

Offline Fenrus

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 07:52:55 PM »
The continuity here definitely bothered me, but I can see how it can be argued that she was playing Harry.

The main problem I had was that the soul gaze itself was a bit anticlimactic. The description of it was cool, but it seemed like in this Soul Gaze they both shared the same vision? Or maybe I misread it. And then it seemed like she didn't really have that much of a reaction (unless I totally missed it).

I was expecting a payoff from him saying bad A his previous reactions had been.

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 09:29:32 PM »
Lara's reaction:

Quote
“Empty night,” she breathed, panting. “Oh, empty night.”
It took me a minute to recover from the intensity of the experience. Finally, I got my breathing under control and looked up at her.
Lara was just staring at me. We both lowered our hands. She began to slowly shake her head.
“You’re unlike anyone I’ve met,” she said quietly. “And I’ve met a great many.”

I'd say it's a fairly strong reaction. My favorite reaction to someone soul gazing Harry is still Denton declaring he doesn't believe in Hell.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #36 on: Today at 02:57:20 AM »
I had a different take on the soulgaze between Harry and Lara.  After long consideration, I think two things happened and neither of them is a continuity error.  This isn’t a defense of Jim’s writing in Twelve Months, just my subjective analysis of it.

First and most obvious, I think Lara never having soulgazed Carlos Ramirez or any other wizard is just one more example of the Dresden Files taking place in a multiverse.  Just like we have read about the Better Future Society and the Brighter Future Society and Bianca having a girlfriend / vampire saliva addicted slave with different names.

The idea of a multiverse is hardly new.  According to whatever A.I. I was using, the first use of a multiverse in fiction goes all the way back to a short story published in Astounding Fiction in 1934.  Unfortunately for Jim, Marvel has made some truly half-assed use of the multiverse concept in their movies and TV shows in the past decade, making the idea of a multiverse seem rather lame for many people.  I’m hoping that Mirror Mirror will put Jim’s use of the multiverse to bed so we don’t have to see Jim use it again.

This brings me to the second thing I believe I have detected.  However, this is completely subjective on my part.  I admit I could be wrong about this.  About eight or nine years ago, I saw Jim at a Con; I’ve seen him a couple of times, and he said something about wanting to make his writing more compact and being to tell stories in a more efficient manner.  Clearly this didn’t happen in Peace Talks and Battle Ground, seeing as Jim originally wanted the entire story he told there to be a single novel.  He has been far more successful in Twelve Months.  If we ignore Peace Talks and Battle Ground, because originally they were supposed to make up a single novel, the word count for Twelve Months is the lowest Jim has used since Turn Coat was released and Turn Count is only about 6,700 words shorter than Twelve Months.

To make his writing more compact I think Jim is; sometimes, becoming more sparse or Spartan with his use of dialogue, trying to convey what he wants with as few words as possible.  There are times when he simply can’t do this.  For example, if Harry and Mab are having a conversation / debate about something, the nature of the relationship Jim has set up with those two characters and the complex counter-arguments Mab may use to support her case, sparse use of language may be difficult to impossible to achieve, but is more achievable with other characters.

So in Twelve Months, when Harry asks Lara, “Do you know what a soulgaze is? Lara replies, “What little you’ve said.  I’ve…I’ve read descriptions of them.”  That is an example of sparse language to make a point.  It’s enough to tell me we are in one universe of the multiverse where Lara never had a soulgaze with Ramirez, but at the same time, as dialogue between these two specific characters it feels a bit weak to me.  Worse, it makes Lara seem ignorant and weaker than she should be. When I say Lara’s seems weaker, I mean less like the intelligent and competent leader of the White Court Lara is supposed to be.   

As I said above, this is just my interpretation of what Jim is doing as a writer today compared to how he wrote the older novels in the series.  I strongly suspect that if this conversation had taken place in Blood Rites or White Night; prior to Carlos and Lara’s soulgaze, I think Lara’s answer would have been more complete.  Maybe something like this:  “Of course Dresden, the White Court keeps extensive intelligence files on wizard capabilities.  However, while I’ve read descriptions of what a soulgaze is, I’ve never experienced one and to my knowledge no one else in the White Court has either.  I suppose this is one area where my knowledge may be less than adequate.”

This way Lara would have continued to be the highly competent character we met in the earlier novels and less the; damsel in distress is an exaggeration, watered down version of Lara we got here.  I think there is no way; even in a part of the multiverse were she didn’t have a soulgaze with Carlos Ramirez, that Lara didn’t read an intel report about wizard soulgazing ability.  It should have been explicitly stated.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:10:24 AM by KurtinStGeorge »
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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #37 on: Today at 03:10:42 AM »
@Kurtin: Yeah, Lara definitely had to have known more than she appeared to in this book. Even Marcone in Storm Front knew what a soul gaze was.

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #38 on: Today at 06:37:47 AM »
Lara's reaction:

I'd say it's a fairly strong reaction. My favorite reaction to someone soul gazing Harry is still Denton declaring he doesn't believe in Hell.
Speaking of reactions. Can someone remind me the reaction of Parker, the streetwolf, please? He was the one seeing He Who Walks Behind?
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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #39 on: Today at 01:58:16 PM »
"Parker's face was stunned. ... I recovered from it before he did."

Not much in there about it.

I didn't like the soulgazes in 12 Months. I feel like they are normally more impactful and tell us more about the character. Bear and Lara's soulgazes basically tell us she's a Valkyrie, she's a White Court vampire. Lara's tells us a little more than that, but not much.

Offline Mira

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #40 on: Today at 03:34:46 PM »


  I don't think the multiverse term should be used, because in my opinion it can too easily become a crutch for sloppy writing. Yes, it does have it's place in a story or series, but it can also be a slippery slope in a series.

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #41 on: Today at 05:43:10 PM »
"Parker's face was stunned. ... I recovered from it before he did."

Not much in there about it.

I didn't like the soulgazes in 12 Months. I feel like they are normally more impactful and tell us more about the character. Bear and Lara's soulgazes basically tell us she's a Valkyrie, she's a White Court vampire. Lara's tells us a little more than that, but not much.
Thank you! Damn, I really wants to see what people sees soulgazing Harry or at least I want someone telling what they saw.
About the soulgazes in TM. I am ok with the Bear one, it is more or less what I would expect and confirm that she is not Murphy and that she is the real deal. But the Lara one was weird, with all the dialogue, I don't know. That dialogue would be in their memories for ever and that could be a lot of time.

Edited: I regret that we did not see any Bear reaction, especially because the soulgaze was done in a terrible moment, when Harry was not only grieving but misfiring and hungover. I wonder if that had any effect on what Bear saw. I wish they had talk about the soulgaze later.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:47:26 PM by Dina »
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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #42 on: Today at 06:10:06 PM »
Jim had strongly hinted that we would see a soulgaze in Mirror Mirror between Harry and iHarry. You could take what Jim said to also imply it will cause him to talk to other people about what they saw when they gazed him.

Offline prince lotore

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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #43 on: Today at 06:10:43 PM »
I think you guys are reading too much into the words and not enough into the scene. Laura is used to everyone in the room just flat out staring at her and here she is on an official date that she knows is being watched by multiple people and he won’t even look her in the face. She also knows for her to be respected by the whites she needs to clearly be the “dominant” one in the relationship, but she also knows Harry well enough that if she just flexes her mojo it will not play out well. So, what does she do? She plays the shy but observant girl asking a deeper question than he is used to similar to the way Lash approached him. She does this for a couple of reasons. First, she wants to soul gaze with Harry because she feels that she got more from Carlos than he got from her.  Second, she wants to see if Harry is put together enough to call her out for her bull shit. She sets up a future where the way forward is the gaze but seems like she respects his need for time while getting a temp for how observant he is currently. Regular hot girls can lie and be manipulative and she is the queen of the whites. I assume everything she says true or not is to get something she wants. And Jim can be writing it like that for all those reasons and as a way to explain it to the newbies
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Re: Continuity drift - Lara and soul gazes
« Reply #44 on: Today at 06:24:36 PM »
It is an interesting idea that Lara is testing Harry's mental state. Instead of saying "are you daft? Of course I know what a soulgaze is, you saw me and that warden sharing one", she is playing around.
I don't know, it is a scene that does complicate things, because we readers are not sure if it is an honest mistake that beta readers did not caught, or if it is something that really should happen in universe.

Jim had strongly hinted that we would see a soulgaze in Mirror Mirror between Harry and iHarry. You could take what Jim said to also imply it will cause him to talk to other people about what they saw when they gazed him.

I don't see that implication. We are probably going to see what Harry sees in the other Harry, but that is not what people see in our Harry.
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There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)