Jim Butcher at Dragon Con 2025

[RobReece]

Jim has said that the Whampire sex-mojo interfaces badly with the WK-mantle's sex/violence/territoriality thing.  Things rapidly spiral out of control; it's more than the two "adding together," it's more like they multiply one another.

I expect only one of them would survive the attempt to consummate the marriage.

One resolution that seems possible:  the MirrorMirror story will see the Harrys swap universes, and it'll be MirrorHarry (without a WK Mantle) who marries Lara and consummates the wedding (likely becoming Lara's thrall).

I remember seeing that sex with the Winter Lady would likely kill one of them, but I don't remember their being a corollary for other beings of power.  But I'm willing to listen.

As for the marriage,  I've theorized all along that Harry and !mirror!Harry swap just prior to the ceremony saving Harry from the marriage, but not from the aftermath of everything !mirror!Harry screws up in our version of reality.

[Mira]

As for the marriage,  I've theorized all along that Harry and !mirror!Harry swap just prior to the ceremony saving Harry from the marriage, but not from the aftermath of everything !mirror!Harry screws up in our version of reality.

Oh I hope not.

[g33k]

I remember seeing that sex with the Winter Lady would likely kill one of them, but I don't remember their being a corollary for other beings of power.  But I'm willing to listen.   

I think the Winter Lady is required by Winter to be a virgin; it's part of the mythic "Maiden/Mother/Crone" archetype she embodies.  She would (even if involuntarily) fight to the death to prevent that changing (we saw it in the Molly novella, where she crippled Carlos).

But WOJ is that the Whampire sex-mojo combines with exponential force, when interacting with the WK sex-and-violence thing.  Neither party is going to be able to control the resulting explosion, and death will be the outcome.

Thus, a non-WK alt!Harry could boink Lara without murderizing her (I suspect, fwiw, that other "creatures who do the succubus schtick" (as Harry & Bob discussed iirc during a prior case-file) would also combine very badly with the WK-mantle).

[Mira]

I think the Winter Lady is required by Winter to be a virgin; it's part of the mythic "Maiden/Mother/Crone" archetype she embodies.  She would (even if involuntarily) fight to the death to prevent that changing (we saw it in the Molly novella, where she crippled Carlos).

That's how it appears, my only question on that is when did Mab give birth to her twin girls?  Also while the evidence is pretty good, on page at least that Molly most likely is a virgin for real when she became Lady, I doubt that Mab was.  So maybe the requirement isn't that the Lady has to be a virgin to become Lady, just that she refrain from having sex once she becomes Lady?

But WOJ is that the Whampire sex-mojo combines with exponential force, when interacting with the WK sex-and-violence thing.  Neither party is going to be able to control the resulting explosion, and death will be the outcome.

Or wizard Winter Lady thing as well as Carlos and Molly found out.  The question is why didn't Mab explain something this important to Molly?  I also see real problems if Harry and Lara do have sex for the above reasons you stated.

Thus, a non-WK alt!Harry could boink Lara without murderizing her (I suspect, fwiw, that other "creatures who do the succubus schtick" (as Harry & Bob discussed iirc during a prior case-file) would also combine very badly with the WK-mantle).

So just what is Mab up to insisting on this union? 

[g33k]

That's how it appears, my only question on that is when did Mab give birth to her twin girls?

I think it was some time in the 1700's/1800's; but it could have been earlier or later.
The only quote I found was this one:

Maeve and Sarissa were twin sisters, from Mab. Their father was an Austrian composer and musician who died young.

https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-the-fae/

I've seen "1800's" confidently stated on Reddit, but AFAIK they were working from that same quote/WoJ (which has no date).
 

[Mira]

I think it was some time in the 1700's/1800's; but it could have been earlier or later.
The only quote I found was this one:https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-the-fae/

I've seen "1800's" confidently stated on Reddit, but AFAIK they were working from that same quote/WoJ (which has no date).

So Mab could have been Queen by that time.  However wasn't it in either Peace Talks or Battleground it was mentioned how she used to ride with her lover before she became Lady? 

[g33k]

So Mab could have been Queen by that time.  However wasn't it in either Peace Talks or Battleground it was mentioned how she used to ride with her lover before she became Lady?

Yes, Ethniu mocked Mab for -- iirc -- being a "pimple-faced" girl or somesuch, riding behind "the conqueror" and having some sort of romance/yearning/something with Merlin.

If we take the "pimples" literally, I think we can be sure she was a mortal then, not sidhe!
 

[Mira]

Yes, Ethniu mocked Mab for -- iirc -- being a "pimple-faced" girl or somesuch, riding behind "the conqueror" and having some sort of romance/yearning/something with Merlin.

If we take the "pimples" literally, I think we can be sure she was a mortal then, not sidhe!
 

Which makes me think that Mab wasn't a virgin when she became Lady.  It still doesn't explain why she never told Molly that sex was forbidden with mortals anyway was forbidden to her.  Or did she think experience was the best teacher?  If Molly knew she wouldn't have tried to have sex with Carlos.  Maybe Mab fears that Molly could become the twisted voyeur that Maeve became.

[Snark Knight]

Also in Mirror Mirror: Relating to the soulgaze scene in Proven Guilty between Harry and Molly.  We will see how different choices could lead to different outcomes.

Mirror Molly as Morgan's Warden apprentice, let's go!

[Snark Knight]

If that part of Winter remains behind it should go back to Mab which would probably make her believe that Harry is dead. 

I believe there was a WoJ that Mirror Mab would be of the position that she's Winter, prime Harry is Winter, so he works for her while he's in that universe.

[g33k]

I believe there was a WoJ that Mirror Mab would be of the position that she's Winter, prime Harry is Winter, so he works for her while he's in that universe.

Mirror!Mab will then have two WK's!!!  How will she leverage this?
Also:  ... WK Fix?  WK Thomas?  Still(again?) WK Lloyd Slate?

Is Maeve still Winter Lady?  If not, is it now Sarissa?  Or who?

[Snark Knight]

Mirror!Mab will then have two WK's!!!  How will she leverage this?
Also:  ... WK Fix?  WK Thomas?  Still(again?) WK Lloyd Slate?

Prime Harry's visit might be bringing her up to one active knight, if Slate still found his way to extended crucifixion via a slightly different path in the mirror universe.  The divergence at the end of GP might not have really started spiraling a whole lot by SK's timeframe in that universe, so it's possible.

Although mirror Mab easily might have gone with another option already if she concluded mirror Harry was no longer a good candidate. Perhaps Thomas, although there are possibilities for the GP divergence where he wouldn't have survived.  I don't see how Fix would go for it; he has too much bad blood against Slate.

[g33k]

...  I don't see how Fix would go for it; he has too much bad blood against Slate.

Remember:  Slate had to die to give up his Mantle.

I think... Fix would be OK with that.

Just sayin'

[Snark Knight]

Remember:  Slate had to die to give up his Mantle.

I think... Fix would be OK with that.

Just sayin'

Oh, I don't think Fix would have a problem with ending Slate.  But Harry himself was worried about becoming the next Slate.  What could even motivate Fix, who had first-hand experience of himself and his friends being Slates victims, to consider taking an offer to be the Winter Knight?

[g33k]

...  What could even motivate Fix, who had first-hand experience of himself and his friends being Slates victims, to consider taking an offer to be the Winter Knight?

In the alt!timeline, I can see Fix killing Slate to save Lily.