Author Topic: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!  (Read 7272 times)

Offline g33k

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2025, 07:18:03 PM »
Well, given Harry's status or lack thereof with the White Counsel, it's got to be someone already estranged from the White Counsel and/or has no interest or hope of getting in their good graces.
 ...
I suspect Harry has no useful way to get a candidate to the WC's attention.  Anything Harry does -- anyone Harry recommends -- arrives under the taint of "probably the tool of that fae-compromised warlock, Dresden."  Harry would be putting them into the same "Sword of Damocles" Warden-hounded role that he hated so badly (if they didn't just chop the poor 'prentice out of hand, on "general principles").

So anyone he finds who really needs training?
100% on Harry for that training.

... I also think that Butcher is unlikely to intro a major new character at this point ...
Tho FWIW it doesn't have to be a "major" new character!  IIRC we only ever met Kim Delaney in the opening of Fool Moon, but she had been (for a short while) Harry's apprentice; just enough to set her on her feet, she was never going to be WC-caliber.  So it might be another short-term apprentice like that.

Also, I think it highly-unlikely Jim will intro & lay the foundations for a major/recurring character in one of the shorts:  he usually keeps key character & plot development to the novels.

Looking back, I'm going with Fitz from Ghost Story.  Certainly seemed like that character was going somewhere.  Took up a subplot and a lot of ink but then exited midway thru that book, and haven't seen him since.  Fitz felt like groundwork, and you know how Butcher drops stuff in books from left field and then uses the stuff later.
All told, I really like this theory!

Your points about "subplot... a lot of ink... felt like groundwork" are I think pretty damned compelling arguments that Fitz will be back; and this could be his (re-)entrypoint.

... I think Mort Lindquist would be more suited to act as a mentor to Fitz, seeing as Mort can interact with ghosts he could give Fitz much more practical advice then Harry ...
How about this plays instead to a different fantheory:  Harry organizing the "lesser talents" (via the Paranet) not just for self-protection, but to police their own ranks (vs. warlock-ism), to investigate, etc; but above all to detect emergent talents and scoop in to educate them, train them, and as much as possible to prevent the Wardens from needing to Snicker-Snack any more youth-gone-astray.

Mort would be the natural "department head" for all sorts of ghostly stuff; so (for "Out Law") Fitz is Harry's apprentice, but then (near the end of the story) Harry hands him off to Morty for specialized training, and Fitz remains through the following novel(s) an ongoing (but peripheral/occasional) character.

Harry finds that this works really well; he does a compare/contrast between "Korean Kid" vs "Fitz" and decides to try formalizing & spreading the notion.
 
« Last Edit: September 28, 2025, 03:23:24 PM by g33k »

Offline Mira

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2025, 12:29:38 PM »
Quote
Tho FWIW it doesn't have to be a "major" new character!  IIRC we only ever met Kim Delaney in the opening of Fool Moon, but she had been (for a short while) Harry's apprentice; just enough to set her on her feet, she was never going to be WC-caliber.  So it might be another short-term apprentice like that.


She never really was Harry's apprentice, there was no agreement between them.  Basically he answered some of her questions when he could but he never instructed her nor was he even a mentor for her.  Actually she was using him to get the magical information she needed, she had no interest in becoming a wizard.

Offline g33k

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2025, 04:23:42 PM »
She never really was Harry's apprentice ...
Better tell Harry that... HE thinks she was!

... she had no interest in becoming a wizard.
She had no ability to become a WC-caliber wizard, she just didn't have enough mojo.

Offline Mira

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2025, 05:39:47 PM »
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Better tell Harry that... HE thinks she was!

Harry's words were, "sometimes apprentice,"  that's pretty casual, Molly was his apprentice.  I sometimes give tips to people about dog training, however while I can say I am sometimes their trainer, they are not really my students. 

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She had no ability to become a WC-caliber wizard, she just didn't have enough mojo.

Which proves my point!  If Kim was apprenticed to Harry, he was thus teaching her to be a wizard someday.  You said yourself and Harry also said it I believe that she didn't have the talent to become a wizard.  I doubt that Harry would have consented to teach her to be a sorcerer.  So what was he teaching her to be?  No, saying she was his sometime apprentice was a mere figure of speech.

Offline g33k

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2025, 07:05:55 AM »
Harry's words were, "sometimes apprentice"
No, he said "a sometime apprentice" (with no "s" on the end of "sometime").
That specific usage is usually taken to mean "prior" -- she was a prior apprentice (there are other definitions, but that is #1 at the OED).

... If Kim was apprenticed to Harry, he was thus teaching her to be a wizard someday.  You said yourself and Harry also said it I believe that she didn't have the talent to become a wizard.  I doubt that Harry would have consented to teach her to be a sorcerer.  So what was he teaching her to be? ...
Someone who pilots a fighter-jet can train a student to fly a commercial airliner (for many years, retired fighter pilots were the single largest source of commercial pilots for US airlines) -- they don't have to train them to be a fighter-jock.

A "practitioner" would be the term, I believe.  He was teaching her to be a better (safer, more in-control) practitioner.  She clearly had enough power to get herself in trouble; I really can't see Harry refusing to train someone like that (particularly an attractive young woman).

The odds are very good that -- though Dresden was undoubtedly overqualified to teach her -- he was still the only teacher who was qualified and willing.

Offline Mira

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2025, 12:24:32 PM »



Apprentice by definition;
Quote
a person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer, having agreed to work for a fixed period at low wages.
"

That wasn't Kim's relationship with Harry, she wasn't working for or with him, and it appears she was paying him very low wages [a steak because he was hungry] for knowledge so she could pass herself off as something she wasn't.  Because of his over active sense of taking responsiblity, Harry may have called her a sometime apprentice, but she wasn't.  There was no agreement between them, she did no work that we know of for him.

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The odds are very good that -- though Dresden was undoubtedly overqualified to teach her -- he was still the only teacher who was qualified and willing.

No, he was the only one around that had the knowledge she wanted.  Harry started to answer her questions in payment for the steak, but when he realized what she was asking about and where it could lead, he was no longer willing to answer. 

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Someone who pilots a fighter-jet can train a student to fly a commercial airliner (for many years, retired fighter pilots were the single largest source of commercial pilots for US airlines) -- they don't have to train them to be a fighter-jock.

You know it is a lot more complicated than that.  Also you didn't define "student," in your analogy, for some trades to become a student requires prerequisites. 

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A "practitioner" would be the term, I believe.  He was teaching her to be a better (safer, more in-control) practitioner.  She clearly had enough power to get herself in trouble; I really can't see Harry refusing to train someone like that (particularly an attractive young woman).


Which doesn't make her his apprentice. He may have taught her some things, but he didn't train her, but she never was really a student of magic.  I can take a cooking class which would improve my cooking skills, but that doesn't make me a chef. 



Offline g33k

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2025, 04:22:55 PM »
Apprentice by definition;
...

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Harry said she was ("was" in the past tense, had been) his apprentice.
You don't believe that, thinking it a "mere figure of speech."

I don't see either of us convincing the other one.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2025, 05:32:20 PM »
I'm guessing Bonnie, based on the eager bit. She seems like the most eager existing character, and I feel like taking on a new apprentice he's not related to our responsible for would not be the best decision, and the therapy book is supposed to be about recovering, not making more issues, right?

Offline g33k

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2025, 05:58:43 PM »
... and the therapy book is supposed to be about recovering, not making more issues, right?
Well, that would be the normal therapeutic presumption, yes.

OTOH, this is Harry Dresden we're talking about; remind me again:  when has Harry done the sensible and appropriate thing, particularly in regards self-care?



... and, of course, this is Jim Butcher we're talking about:  the man has based his entire career on tormenting Harry and making his life harder & more complicated.

Offline Mira

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2025, 09:29:50 PM »
I'm guessing Bonnie, based on the eager bit. She seems like the most eager existing character, and I feel like taking on a new apprentice he's not related to our responsible for would not be the best decision, and the therapy book is supposed to be about recovering, not making more issues, right?

I agree with you, she has all the knowledge of Lasciel, plus the mojo to be a wizard.  However she is young and untrained, she could end up being Harry's answer to Namshiel.

Offline pcpoet

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2025, 11:41:34 AM »
my second guess is the kid from zoo day....my reasoning is that the boy met harry when he was having a day with his daughter Maggie.  his daughter will be the reason harry takes an interest in teaching this kid
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Offline Nooneofconsequence

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2025, 02:44:24 PM »
Zoo Day, and Day One, took place after Skin Game and before Peace Talks.
Did Austin break any of the laws?  I don't think so, but he was not in control of his powers.  Harry wouldn't have had to deliver him to the council (at the time he was still a Warden), and training the kid so he doesn't break any laws would be very in character. And Maggie made a pointed argument: “That could be me.”
  No mention of him at all in Peace Talks or Battle Ground, but Harry was a bit preoccupied.  Austin makes sense as a possibility.

Offline Mira

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 01:10:39 PM »


  The thing is, why go though all the trouble of putting Lasciel's shadow in Harry's head, have her fall in love with Harry.  Then as Lash have sex with Harry's Id, produce a "child" or parasite in Harry's head giving him all kinds of mysterious headaches, until we find out the existence of this parasite, then he finally gives birth to it before it kills him, and it lives in a crudely carved wooden skull Harry meant to be Bob's new home, now since Bob is back with Harry, sort of redundant.  We are told that Bonnie has all of Lasciel's knowlege, and Harry's as well, and keep her around as Maggie's little sister who knows all the pancake recipes ever thought of but gets the ingredients mixed up?  We are talking the creation of a character over several books, all of that and Bonnie will remain a toddler/super genius spirit hanging around in the background to be a sometimes foil for little Maggie? Really?   

I really doubt that, and since Bob is back, he or Bonnie has to go, or Jim has to do something with the character.  Since Bonnie's main problem is she isn't trained, she will be Harry's new apprentice.   

Offline g33k

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 11:03:11 PM »
... and it lives in a crudely carved wooden skull Harry meant to be Bob's new home, now since Bob is back with Harry, sort of redundant ...
Yeah, about that...
 ???
 ::)
Awfully convenient to have a custom-built spirit-housing all ready to go that way.
Almost... too convenient?

Offline g33k

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Re: Harry Dresden's New Apprentice!!?!
« Reply #29 on: Today at 04:09:48 AM »
... We are told that Bonnie has all of Lasciel's knowlege, and Harry's as well ...
Yeah, about that, too...

Absolutely not all of Lasciel's -- not a literal Fallen Angel -- maybe all of the Shadow's knowlege.

But I don't recall ever seeing a definitive "...all of..." statement:  a lot of the knowledge, sure.
But if Jim took (for example) biology/DNA as the model, Bonnie will have a largely-randomized half-from-Lash and half-from-Harry (Lash probably was able to organize which "half").

But I'm pretty sure Bonea won't suddenly become (for example) Harry's Guide to the Starborn Phenomenon; I do expect she'll have some highly-pertninent Starborn-relevant info, though!
 
« Last Edit: Today at 04:13:52 AM by g33k »