The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Lasciel's lies and the complicated truth

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Mira:

--- Quote ---In these human attempts to answer this question there are some which use biblical references, but at least one said the answer isn't explicitly laid out in the bible.  There are bible passages that are quoted but you have to read between the lines to put it all together.  I don't know if this person or the others explanations are fully satisfying, but at least they felt like actual thought and effort were put into those answers, not just a pastiche of answers that were smeared together to give the impression of real thought.

OK, this has been a bit of a rant, but sometimes A.I. feels like such a scam and yet I keep hearing from supposedly highly intelligent people that A.I. is going to be the best thing since sliced bread.)
--- End quote ---

I don't know enough about A.I. to really judge, but I saw some rumbles that it isn't quite up to the standards of Commander Data as seen on Star Trek NG.

Now back to regular programing, what happened with Lasciel/Lash, and Harry?  Another theme oft repeated and too important to ignore is Harry's will.  Harry is always talking about it, how strong it really is. Here is my theory, Nic's plan, whatever it originally was backfired when he tossed Lasciel's coin at Harry.  First of all, though he underestimated the power of the coins, Harry did  try to take precautions, i.e. burying the coin in a power circle in his basement, not realizing that that wouldn't stop Lasciel's shadow from invading his mind.  However with the help of Butters, he discovered the presence of the shadow in his mind.  Then it was Lasciel's shadow verses Harry's very strong free will.  1] Without the acceptance of the coin, Lasciel's influence over her shadow was somewhat limited.  2] The shadow in the beginning had no will of her own, she still was following the plan, but Harry didn't.  Once Harry realized what the shadow was he began to work his will upon it, eventually changing it. 3] This began with renaming it, then freely debating with it, in effect corrupting it into seeing things as he saw them.  4] On one hand Lash began to think for herself, but you can also say that Harry bent Lash to his will.  So did Lash really gain free will? 

I'd say yes, and no, yes, in the sense that the decision to sacrifice herself was hers, but no, because it was Harry's will that got her to that point. 

prince lotore:
As someone who spent a lot of time in catholic school. My understanding about the “rebellion” was that the angles were jealous of humans for their free will.  Now in the Dresdinverse I believe that translates to humans weren’t given something to do.
All power in the Dresden seems to come with attachment that feel and sound a lot like responsibilities. Mab has massive power but is forced/compelled to use it in a certain manner. And if this is scalable the more power the more responsibility comes with it. If the requirements of the Fae are any indication, and if you just want to live your best life, being an angel must kind of suck. 
The reason that they can’t repent and ask for forgiveness is that they are still pissed for the same reasons that they rebelled in the first place. On a topic for another thread, I believe that’s why Nicodemus works so well with fallen because together they get the freedom and the power with none of the attachments.
So for Lasciel who is told that not only was her shadow not able to tempt a black sheep wizard who has already killed with magic. Who seems to be doubling in power every year. Who signed up to me Mab’s slave/plaything. Who bonded with deamonreach because he needed power. That guy not only kept his humanity but changed her shadow so that it sacrificed itself for him and created an immensely being that Harry keeps in a carved wooden box and pretends that its daughter. And What if the shadow was offered the chance to return to the fold and got into heaven or at least joins Murphy’s dad in his little group.
If that didn’t have Lasciel in a rage I’m sure Nick reminds her of it every 20 minutes or so. Then he givers Lasciel to a traumatized girl that thinks that everyone is just using her for either sex or her power. I’m sure Lasciel has been talking about nothing but revenge since Hanna picked her up.

Tinfoil hat:

--- Quote from: prince lotore on August 26, 2025, 05:21:47 PM ---As someone who spent a lot of time in catholic school. My understanding about the “rebellion” was that the angles were jealous of humans for their free will.  Now in the Dresdinverse I believe that translates to humans weren’t given something to do.
All power in the Dresden seems to come with attachment that feel and sound a lot like responsibilities. Mab has massive power but is forced/compelled to use it in a certain manner. And if this is scalable the more power the more responsibility comes with it. If the requirements of the Fae are any indication, and if you just want to live your best life, being an angel must kind of suck. 
The reason that they can’t repent and ask for forgiveness is that they are still pissed for the same reasons that they rebelled in the first place. On a topic for another thread, I believe that’s why Nicodemus works so well with fallen because together they get the freedom and the power with none of the attachments.
So for Lasciel who is told that not only was her shadow not able to tempt a black sheep wizard who has already killed with magic. Who seems to be doubling in power every year. Who signed up to me Mab’s slave/plaything. Who bonded with deamonreach because he needed power. That guy not only kept his humanity but changed her shadow so that it sacrificed itself for him and created an immensely being that Harry keeps in a carved wooden box and pretends that its daughter. And What if the shadow was offered the chance to return to the fold and got into heaven or at least joins Murphy’s dad in his little group.
If that didn’t have Lasciel in a rage I’m sure Nick reminds her of it every 20 minutes or so. Then he givers Lasciel to a traumatized girl that thinks that everyone is just using her for either sex or her power. I’m sure Lasciel has been talking about nothing but revenge since Hanna picked her up.


--- End quote ---
Different explanations are given for the rebellion. Some of the reasons i have heard include that a) humans were to have dominion over angels who are messagers, which rubbed luci ( pride personified) the wrong way. His reason being look at how awesome i am and look at the puny humans. Other is that the Lucy was jealous of the amount of love and favour that humans were going to receive upon the creation. With luci having been the favourite before he saw that as being replaced with a new creation.

Mira:

--- Quote ---Mab has massive power but is forced/compelled to use it in a certain manner. And if this is scalable the more power the more responsibility comes with it. If the requirements of the Fae are any indication, and if you just want to live your best life, being an angel must kind of suck.
--- End quote ---

Fae are in an odd category, though Mab appears to have all this power to do what she wants, she still doesn't have free will.


--- Quote ---So for Lasciel who is told that not only was her shadow not able to tempt a black sheep wizard who has already killed with magic. Who seems to be doubling in power every year. Who signed up to me Mab’s slave/plaything. Who bonded with deamonreach because he needed power.
--- End quote ---

Yes, it appears that way, but while Mab might try to force Harry as her Knight to do things a certain way, Harry still has the free will to do whatever his way.  That was the whole point of Uriel's seven words.

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