Out Law, novella (?)

[Dina]

I don't remember the name but I remember the character, may be you are right.

[prince lotore]

With Harry not in the white council any more I doubt it's an apprentice like we are thinking. But between the members of the paranet and the regular people who join under his banner during the battle of Chicago I wouldn't be surprised if Harry has a lot of people training with him to various degrees. I feel like this might be a "best man" twisted by fae /winter situation. Probably someone Harry hates. Or it's marcone

[g33k]

With Harry not in the white council any more I doubt it's an apprentice like we are thinking. But between the members of the paranet and the regular people who join under his banner during the battle of Chicago I wouldn't be surprised if Harry has a lot of people training with him to various degrees. I feel like this might be a "best man" twisted by fae /winter situation. Probably someone Harry hates. Or it's marcone

I'm pretty sure the "wizard's apprentice" tradition pre-dates the entire White Council.
During 12M -- and this story is set during 12M -- I don't think Harry's going to have time to set up any sort of multi-student training.  One apprentice seems like plenty!

Agreed that there is plenty of need for Harry's training, plenty of students who would benefit.  One popular theory has the Paranet becoming a less-elitist / more-egalitarian replacement for the White Council (which seems doomed to fall).

Not Marcone, though:  he has Thorny to train him, and Namshiel is the Denarian's wizard-nerd, so Marcone doesn't need Harry.

[Mira]

Not Marcone, though:  he has Thorny to train him, and Namshiel is the Denarian's wizard-nerd, so Marcone doesn't need Harry.

  I have a hunch that Marcone will need Harry.  I think Marcone will eventually regret his choice. 

[Tinfoil hat]

  I have a hunch that Marcone will need Harry.  I think Marcone will eventually regret his choice. 

My guess is that Marcone will have a case that breaks his rules but he cant act openly against the people responsible. So similar to the monster short he hires it out. Only this time harry is the only one available. Harry starts a war with Canada has Marcone feared he would in that story.  And Marcone ends up hating harry even more

[Mira]

My guess is that Marcone will have a case that breaks his rules but he cant act openly against the people responsible. So similar to the monster short he hires it out. Only this time harry is the only one available. Harry starts a war with Canada has Marcone feared he would in that story.  And Marcone ends up hating harry even more

  No, I think the whole Denarian thing will end up going against Marcone's grain.  Andruiel pulls it off with Nic fairly well, Nic still believes he has an equal partnership with Andruiel.  Lasciel tried to convince Harry that that was the kind of partnership he could have with her if he accepted the coin.  However thanks to his inadvertent soul gaze early on when we first meet the Denarians he knows that the host is really the slave of the fallen trapped in the coin, or he feared that.  Based on that knowledge Harry stanchly refused to accept the coin.  I don't think Marcone likes to be or wants to be a servant to Namshell, at the moment he maybe convinced he is in the driver's seat, but I think a day will come when Marcone will realize he isn't in charge of anything,that's the day he will regret his choice.

[Avernite]

  No, I think the whole Denarian thing will end up going against Marcone's grain.  Andruiel pulls it off with Nic fairly well, Nic still believes he has an equal partnership with Andruiel.  Lasciel tried to convince Harry that that was the kind of partnership he could have with her if he accepted the coin.  However thanks to his inadvertent soul gaze early on when we first meet the Denarians he knows that the host is really the slave of the fallen trapped in the coin, or he feared that.  Based on that knowledge Harry stanchly refused to accept the coin.  I don't think Marcone likes to be or wants to be a servant to Namshell, at the moment he maybe convinced he is in the driver's seat, but I think a day will come when Marcone will realize he isn't in charge of anything,that's the day he will regret his choice.

Regret it, sure.

But I feel the seductiveness of the Fallen would suffer if that regret were sufficient for Marcone to slip the noose and ditch the coin. We already saw Nicky almost redeemed, Harry and Sanya got out... adding a succesful Marcone redemption just feels like it needs way too much buildup. Unlike a Marcone who, like in Battle Ground, works for good despite still being in the clutches of the Fallen.

[Mira]

Regret it, sure.

But I feel the seductiveness of the Fallen would suffer if that regret were sufficient for Marcone to slip the noose and ditch the coin. We already saw Nicky almost redeemed, Harry and Sanya got out... adding a succesful Marcone redemption just feels like it needs way too much buildup. Unlike a Marcone who, like in Battle Ground, works for good despite still being in the clutches of the Fallen.

Except for the fact that before Butters got the Sword of Faith, there was a lot of speculation that Marcone would be the next Knight.  Now not sure, but I even think someone said that there was a WOJ that Jim had considered making Marcone the next Knight.  There is one more Sword out there, the Sword of Love, yes, most think Thomas will get it, but what if it turns out to be Marcone, keeping with Jim's original idea?

[RobReece]

Except for the fact that before Butters got the Sword of Faith, there was a lot of speculation that Marcone would be the next Knight.  Now not sure, but I even think someone said that there was a WOJ that Jim had considered making Marcone the next Knight.  There is one more Sword out there, the Sword of Love, yes, most think Thomas will get it, but what if it turns out to be Marcone, keeping with Jim's original idea?

For that to happen,  Marcone will have to take Sanya's route and give up his coin.  There's already a Jewish Knight and an agnostic Knight, but I don't think Jim would propose for anyone to hold a coin and a sword at the same time, even temporarily.

Could you see Harry as the Triple Knight? Winter, Coin and Sword?

[g33k]

For that to happen,  Marcone will have to take Sanya's route and give up his coin.  There's already a Jewish Knight and an agnostic Knight, but I don't think Jim would propose for anyone to hold a coin and a sword at the same time, even temporarily.

Could you see Harry as the Triple Knight? Winter, Coin and Sword?

The only way for one person to be simultaneously a KotBD & KotC would be for that Denarian to renounce their Fall and to be redeemed.  I don't think that's going to happen, AFAIK it's canonically "impossible..." but that's real-world Church canon, and Jim is in charge of what's possible & what happens in the canon of the Dresdenverse.

[Mira]

For that to happen,  Marcone will have to take Sanya's route and give up his coin.  There's already a Jewish Knight and an agnostic Knight, but I don't think Jim would propose for anyone to hold a coin and a sword at the same time, even temporarily.

  Why not a former gangster Knight who has learned how to be a wizard?  Not impossible, of course Marcone would have to give up his coin, if he got disgusted enough he might. Marcone is a gangster, but he still has a smidge of conscience, he feels guilt for that little girl that got wounded because of him.  He also must have some faith deep down, remember he wanted the Shroud in hope that it had the power to cure the girl.

[g33k]

  Why not a former gangster Knight who has learned how to be a wizard?  Not impossible, of course Marcone would have to give up his coin, if he got disgusted enough he might. Marcone is a gangster, but he still has a smidge of conscience, he feels guilt for that little girl that got wounded because of him.  He also must have some faith deep down, remember he wanted the Shroud in hope that it had the power to cure the girl. 

Gentleman Johnny also very very very much wishes to be his Own Man.
And that is fundamentally impossible for a KotBD hosting one of the Fallen.

But the un-Fallen?  They are all about that Mortal Free Will.

If John ever comes to understand that, he'd flip sides in an instant.  Of course, it'd take... errr... some "other changes," let's say... for him to become eligible to become a KotC!

[Mira]

Gentleman Johnny also very very very much wishes to be his Own Man.
And that is fundamentally impossible for a KotBD hosting one of the Fallen.

Yes, he does like to be his own man and also likes his power and his own little empire.  Namshiel will have to manage him so that Marcone believes he is calling the shots.  This basically is what Andriel has done with Nic, he buys that it is an equal partnership. Something Harry never bought when Lasciel offered it, but will Marcone see through it?

But the un-Fallen?  They are all about that Mortal Free Will.

However the holder of Marcone's coin is one of the Fallen and really doesn't give a damn about his host's free will. 

If John ever comes to understand that, he'd flip sides in an instant.  Of course, it'd take... errr... some "other changes," let's say... for him to become eligible to become a KotC!

Anything is possible, Sanya was a Communist atheist and ultimately gave up his coin and became a KotC.