The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Two plus two is Starborn
Talby16:
--- Quote from: g33k on June 12, 2025, 11:49:59 PM ---I think you mean Lara's envoy!
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Good Catch. That is what I was meaning to say.
--- Quote from: g33k on June 12, 2025, 11:49:59 PM ---I'll suggest that Nemesis hasn't taken Lara because it doesn't want Lara.
It wants Justine.
It wants the lover of the Starborn's brother -- Harry is (was) protective of Justine. He saw her as fragile, helpless, and vitally-important to his only blood-relative. That made Harry ripe for manipulation by Justine.
But Lara? Please. An apex-predator, direct threat/foe to Dresden, known manipulator. Harry is maximally on-guard. Lara has almost no value in this context.
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Excellent point. Justine as Lara's representative would gather more information (and possibly able to spread the Nemfection) than Lara herself would because people are on their guard against Lara. In addition, Nemesis through Justine would be much more able to control what information Lara received and thus able to exert influence over her actions.
--- Quote from: g33k on June 12, 2025, 11:49:59 PM ---Justine was too reliable, too focused, too competent -- in fact, hypercompetent -- in the scene with Marcone. The Justine that Harry saw was only ever "focused" when she was with Thomas (and then focused mostly upon Thomas). The Harry-visible Justine seemed incapable of the trip to Corb, or Marcone, let alone performing the negotiations she did.
We've never had the slightest hint that Justine might have the kind of training she'd need to perform at that level. But if it was Nemesis acting? Yeah, that tracks. 100%
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There is one thing that has bothered me about this whole scenario. In the Even Hand short story, Justine sees Marcone's defenses against a wizard that he set up specifically to deal with Harry. We know from Skin Game that she relayed that information about the defenses to Harry and he uses that to recognize Marcone's defenses at the bank. If she was Nemfected, why did she pass on crucial life saving information to Harry. If she had said nothing there is a chance that Harry dies in the future to Marcone the same way the Fomer wizard did. Yes, there was a plan to potentially use him as a vector to Deomonreach, but having him killed would remove Demonreach's protector possibly allowing them to try the Cold Days attack again. I would think that they would want the Starborn Warden of Demonreach removed.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Talby16 on June 15, 2025, 09:06:08 PM --- ...
There is one thing that has bothered me about this whole scenario. In the Even Hand short story, Justine sees Marcone's defenses against a wizard that he set up specifically to deal with Harry. We know from Skin Game that she relayed that information about the defenses to Harry and he uses that to recognize Marcone's defenses at the bank. If she was Nemfected, why did she pass on crucial life saving information to Harry. If she had said nothing there is a chance that Harry dies in the future to Marcone the same way the Fomer wizard did. Yes, there was a plan to potentially use him as a vector to Deomonreach, but having him killed would remove Demonreach's protector possibly allowing them to try the Cold Days attack again. I would think that they would want the Starborn Warden of Demonreach removed.
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There is a fantheory of the "Starborn gone bad" being the "Destroyer" mentioned in the Morgan short, Journal. Also, the retrospective scenes with HWWBehind was to some degree testing/training Harry.
It's possible they were trying to recruit Harry, not kill him.
And maybe there's division among the ranks of the Outsiders -- some hoping to recruit him, some to destroy him.
Mira:
--- Quote ---There is a fantheory of the "Starborn gone bad" being the "Destroyer" mentioned in the Morgan short, Journal. Also, the retrospective scenes with HWWBehind was to some degree testing/training Harry.
It's possible they were trying to recruit Harry, not kill him.
And maybe there's division among the ranks of the Outsiders -- some hoping to recruit him, some to destroy him.
--- End quote ---
I think there is a lot of truth in all of this. There are a lot of assumptions of many what a star born is, Drakul and Listens seem to fit that mold, Harry doesn't. Margaret was a very clever woman, she realized that because of his protection that she couldn't kill Lord Raith with her death curse, but she discovered a significant weakness that would render him pretty impotent, starvation. Likewise I believe based on what Lash told Harry, she knew that it would take another star born to battle the Enemy in the BAT, but it wasn't until she met Malcolm and fell in love with him that she decided to conceive one. Like preventing Lord Raith the ability to feed was the key to her curse, conceiving a star child with Malcolm's "good heart" or nature is key to defeating the Enemy. It's this basic trait in his personality that pulls Harry up short when he strays too far to the dark side or into normal star born behavior.. At this time however neither side really understands this, they just make assumptions that Harry is, ergo this is how he is..
Talby16:
--- Quote from: g33k on June 16, 2025, 02:45:15 AM ---It's possible they were trying to recruit Harry, not kill him.
And maybe there's division among the ranks of the Outsiders -- some hoping to recruit him, some to destroy him.
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Division among the Outsiders would be interesting. It reminds me of Supernatural and the angels taking over host bodies and trying to help/hinder Dean and Sam based on their agendas. A conversation between a "good" Nemfected person and Harry would be telling, but I don't see how we could trust anything a Nemfected person said.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Talby16 on June 16, 2025, 04:09:30 PM --- ... A conversation between a "good" Nemfected person and Harry would be telling, but I don't see how we could trust anything a Nemfected person said.
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Lea might be able to reveal much; but she already has said that she can't even think about Nemesis without risking re-infection.
My bet here is on Elaine. Her Nemfection will be confirmed in the BAT, but Harry will be able to pull her out of that, and she'll be able to give him critical "Outsider Info."
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