Murphy

[g33k]

My theory is that Murphy -- by declining to take up an offered Sword -- has become eligible to be "drafted" by the All-Father to become an Einherjar.  But she's also got her Catholic stuff, so it's not like she is "all-in" and 100% committed.

Remember how Harry's GS experience was a bit of a "con-job" -- Papa Murphy kinda-sorta hinted at consequences if he didn't do it; but later on, Harry figures that Murphy most likely hadn't fooled Uriel at all, so ultimately Uriel was running the con...  culminating in the con where Uriel sends Harry back, when Harry chose to pursue "what comes next."

I think Murphy is going to have something similar.  "Well," says Gard.  "You certainly could go join the White God up in Heaven, you've earned your Final Reward.  But my own patron favors a very... active... afterlife.  Dare I even say -- when the need occurs -- a combative one.  You might think of it as a lateral transfer."  Murphy wants to keep fighting, keep protecting people, keep being Harry's backup, and absolutely does not want to retire to join the Heavenly Choir.  So she likes this, and pursues it.

Then Murphy discovers that whole "living memory" clause, and goes "fuck that."
And she starts looking for ways to bend and break the rules, and come back sooner...

... which is precisely what Uriel wants from Murphy.

[Mira]

I think Murphy is going to have something similar.  "Well," says Gard.  "You certainly could go join the White God up in Heaven, you've earned your Final Reward.  But my own patron favors a very... active... afterlife.  Dare I even say -- when the need occurs -- a combative one.  You might think of it as a lateral transfer."  Murphy wants to keep fighting, keep protecting people, keep being Harry's backup, and absolutely does not want to retire to join the Heavenly Choir.  So she likes this, and pursues it.

So you are saying she is invoking her right as a mortal human of free will, and made her choice.  Harry also had a choice remember?  In the end though it isn't up to her.

Then Murphy discovers that whole "living memory" clause, and goes "fuck that."
And she starts looking for ways to bend and break the rules, and come back sooner...

That sounds great, but on the other hand, if she can do that so can others.  Not only that, but isn't that what Lucifer did? You are making her no different than the Denarians, and wouldn't that be an ironic twist?

... which is precisely what Uriel wants from Murphy.

Does he? 

[g33k]

...
Does he?

Yes.

well...



So I WAG.

So mote it be.

[Mira]

Yes.

well...



So I WAG.

So mote it be.

Sounds like Murphy rejected Heaven, so it's out of Uriel's hands now. 

[g33k]

Sounds like Murphy rejected Heaven, so it's out of Uriel's hands now. 

We'll have to see how Jim writes it, of course.

But no:  just because someone "rejects" Heaven, it doesn't at all take things "out of Uriel's hands."  Maybe other angels don't engage, but... Uriel??!?

[Mira]

We'll have to see how Jim writes it, of course.

But no:  just because someone "rejects" Heaven, it doesn't at all take things "out of Uriel's hands."  Maybe other angels don't engage, but... Uriel??!?

  Uriel is limited, he might be an archangel but his power is limited by very serious rules. 

[Dina]

I do not think Murphy rejected Heaven, she just pressed "remind me later".

[Mira]

I do not think Murphy rejected Heaven, she just pressed "remind me later".

Perhaps, but

[g33k]

Uriel is limited, he might be an archangel but his power is limited by very serious rules. 

He is limited by the rules; but perhaps not so much as you think.

Remember that in Ghost Story, Uriel intentionally misleads Harry, enabled because one of the Fallen had previously misled him (in Changes).

If my WAG is correct, Gard/Vadderung is similarly "misleading" Murphy into joining as an Einherjar, in part by implying a more-passive / less-engaged role with the "White God."  The "rules" that Murphy is led to break are Odin's rules.  Obviously, my WAG may be wildly off-base!

[Mira]

Remember that in Ghost Story, Uriel intentionally misleads Harry, enabled because one of the Fallen had previously misled him

Uriel was only able to intervene because Lasciel lied to Harry pushing him to suicide.  Otherwise I don't believe he would have been allowed to, I believe Uriel says as much.  I would have to go back and read, but I think Uriel says that was the only reason why.

If my WAG is correct, Gard/Vadderung is similarly "misleading" Murphy into joining as an Einherjar, in part by implying a more-passive / less-engaged role with the "White God."  The "rules" that Murphy is led to break are Odin's rules.  Obviously, my WAG may be wildly off-base!

However I don't think you can say that Murphy was misled, she was well acquainted with the Einherjar a long time before she died.

[g33k]

... However I don't think you can say that Murphy was misled, she was well acquainted with the Einherjar a long time before she died.

You seem to have misunderstood me.
I'm not saying Murphy was misled.

I am suggesting -- as a WAG -- that in the future we will see Murphy get back onscreen via a "convenient" combination of loopholes in the "rules," and conflicts over which "rules" apply in her specific case, and some degree of being "misled" (which gives Uriel just a touch more leeway to act) and her own rebelliousness over "following the rules" vs. "doing the right thing."

All of it, largely, orchestrated by Uriel (who exceeds even Mab for subtlety).

[Mira]

I am suggesting -- as a WAG -- that in the future we will see Murphy get back onscreen via a "convenient" combination of loopholes in the "rules," and conflicts over which "rules" apply in her specific case, and some degree of being "misled" (which gives Uriel just a touch more leeway to act) and her own rebelliousness over "following the rules" vs. "doing the right thing."

All of it, largely, orchestrated by Uriel (who exceeds even Mab for subtlety).

Maybe, but Murphy chose to break the rules, no one pushed her to do so.  She chose to proclaim that she believed she had the right to judge Nic over the Almighty and got a Holy Sword broken in the process.  She demonstrated an arrogance akin to one of the Fallen.  None of that was orchestrated by Uriel, wouldn't be.  This is stuff she took upon herself.  I think the best that could be done for her was to let her go to Valhalla and become an Einherjar, one of Odin's warriors.  She may be back in Mirrormirror, and possibly Harry will figure out a way to being her back to his dimension, but she will not be the same.  That's the wisdom of the rule, it's a kindness not a punishment.  Actually I have a WAG of my own, there will be a moment when Harry will have to chose.  He can only bring one back to his dimension, the choice will be Murphy or Chandler.  At the end of the day, Harry knows that his Murphy is dead, this isn't the same Murphy, she belongs in that dimension, and Chandler was snatched from his dimension and trapped in one where he doesn't belong.  Harry knows what is right and he will do the right thing, he will leave Murphy, painful as that is, and restore Chandler to the dimension he belongs in.

[Dina]

Do you think Chandler is in the Mirror dimension?

[Mira]

Do you think Chandler is in the Mirror dimension?

I do, remember he was disappeared into another dimension, he wasn't killed, wounded, or turned in Battle Ground.  I think Jim did that for a reason, now we see Harry on his own as Wizard of Chicago, powerful yes, but he is going to need help.  I think if Chandler is in the other dimension and Harry rescues him, the White Council isn't going to welcome him back with open arms.  Chandler will be forced out like Harry was and he is going to join Harry as his right hand man so to speak.  Backing up another step during the confrontation between the Wardens and Harry on the road in Peace Talks it was Chandler who was sending signals to Harry that the Wardens weren't on his side and to beware.  Now all of that may blow up in the end, but this is what I think is being set up.

[Dina]

It is a good theory and I would like it.