The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy
g33k:
--- Quote from: magnuskn on August 28, 2025, 07:22:56 AM ---"The rules" being something which distinctly sounded made up on the spot by Gard to me. We never heard of this rule before Gard mentioned it and how firm it is, is a thing of complete speculation.
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??!?
Why in the world would we ever have seen or heard of it before that moment?
It's an Odin thing, and Harry actually knows very little about Odin's specific rules & dealings.
We're regularly learning new stuff about the Dresdenverse... Harry's early magical education (by Justin) was abominable, and (later) Eb was trying to teach something more fundamental than reams of per-mythology Elder-Lore, so Eb didn't add very much of this (outside of the White Council fundamentals, mostly amounting to "how interact with the Council and not get Damocles-chopped by Warden Snicker-snack").
Mira:
--- Quote ---It's on page 55 of my softcover, I might have a different version than yours. Just check the chapter, I found it there this morning and it's a direct quote.
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What is the direct quote?
--- Quote --- "That said, Murphy was a monster-hunting Valkyrie. She was the only person I'd ever heard of who killed one with a chain-saw".
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Sorry but that doesn't make sense, because if it a direct quote from Harry, it wouldn't begin as you wrote it. Also killing one monster neither makes her a hunter of them, since it was attacking Harry at the time in the Lowes plant department and she happened to be there, and she surmised that a chain saw was the best way to kill a plant beast.
--- Quote ---Might be my bias, but it sounded less genuine to me. Also, I enumerated my reasons why I think Uriel and Odin might be working together on this in my last posts.
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Could be that they are, but that doesn't change that Odin is a god in his own right and has his own set of rules reguarding the warriors he has brought to Vallalha.
--- Quote ---You might want to check on Michael in regards to heaven owing people stuff, like all the angels posted around his house to keep his family safe, even after he left active service. And I highly doubt it'll be until the BAT we see her again. Although it's not that far away anymore in terms of number of books, so you might well be right, too.
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Michael is different from Murphy, he has never broken the rules regarding the Swords or being a Holy Knight. Michael doesn't have that kind of arrogance, Murphy openly displayed it believing she knew and could apply human law to Nic rather than God's Law.
magnuskn:
--- Quote from: g33k on September 01, 2025, 04:51:14 PM ---??!?
Why in the world would we ever have seen or heard of it before that moment?
It's an Odin thing, and Harry actually knows very little about Odin's specific rules & dealings.
We're regularly learning new stuff about the Dresdenverse... Harry's early magical education (by Justin) was abominable, and (later) Eb was trying to teach something more fundamental than reams of per-mythology Elder-Lore, so Eb didn't add very much of this (outside of the White Council fundamentals, mostly amounting to "how interact with the Council and not get Damocles-chopped by Warden Snicker-snack").
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Yeah, and therefore it came out of nowhere and somehow now needs to be accepted as absolutely ironclad canon? For me, the whole deal of making Murphy an Einherjar is suspect from the outset, since she was a devout catholic and that did not change by the time of her death. So a "yep, we took her and now you can't see her" from the norse faction seems just a tad sus to me.
--- Quote from: Mira on September 01, 2025, 09:28:28 PM ---What is the direct quote?
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I'll extend the quote a bit to make it easier to find. But I posted it a few posts ago. :)
"You look pensive" Murphy said. We walked down an empty hospital corridor toward the Cook County Morgue. We'd have to go the long way around so that I could avoid any areas with important medical equipment. My leather duster whispered around my legs as I walked. My blasting rod thumped against my leg rhythmically, where I'd tied it to the inside of the duster. I'd traded in my slacks for blue jeans and my dress shoes for hiking boots.
Murphy didn't look like a monster-hunting Valkyrie. She was five nothing, a hundred and nothing, and was built like an athlete, all springy muscle. Her blond hair hung down over her blue eyes, and it was cut close in back. She wore nicer clothes than usual - a maroon blouse with a grey pantsuit - and she had on more makeup than was her habit. She looked every inch the professional businesswoman.
That said, Murphy was a monster-hunting Valkyrie. She was the only person I'd ever heard of who killed one with a chain-saw. "
--- Quote from: Mira on September 01, 2025, 09:28:28 PM ---Sorry but that doesn't make sense, because if it a direct quote from Harry, it wouldn't begin as you wrote it. Also killing one monster neither makes her a hunter of them, since it was attacking Harry at the time in the Lowes plant department and she happened to be there, and she surmised that a chain saw was the best way to kill a plant beast.
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Well, I just quoted the section from the start of chapter five and Harry calls her a monster-hunting Valkyrie twice. ^^
--- Quote from: Mira on September 01, 2025, 09:28:28 PM ---Could be that they are, but that doesn't change that Odin is a god in his own right and has his own set of rules reguarding the warriors he has brought to Vallalha.
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Yeah, but you'd think that God is a step above him and frown on that. Since it's metaphysical stuff of the souls kind, I think the whole hands-off approach Uriel normally takes would apply here. But we'll see.
--- Quote from: Mira on September 01, 2025, 09:28:28 PM ---Michael is different from Murphy, he has never broken the rules regarding the Swords or being a Holy Knight. Michael doesn't have that kind of arrogance, Murphy openly displayed it believing she knew and could apply human law to Nic rather than God's Law.
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"God's Law" is also a bit indeterminate here. He had no problem smiting all the vampires, but every time Nic plays the "Yup, I'm totally giving up here, teehee" card, everybody wielding one of the swords needs to take some stupid pills? In any case, even if Murphy erred in this particular instance, that doesn't just invalidate what she did at Chitzen Itza and that she was used as a direct conduit to deliver a message. In my eyes, that means the G-man owes her one.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Murphy didn't look like a monster-hunting Valkyrie. She was five nothing, a hundred and nothing, and was built like an athlete, all springy muscle. Her blond hair hung down over her blue eyes, and it was cut close in back. She wore nicer clothes than usual - a maroon blouse with a grey pantsuit - and she had on more makeup than was her habit. She looked every inch the professional businesswoman.
That said, Murphy was a monster-hunting Valkyrie. She was the only person I'd ever heard of who killed one with a chain-saw. "
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Thank you for the quote, it still doesn't make Murphy a Valkyrie in the future. It is a good way to describe a female warrior, especially when one doesn't know that much about Valkyrie, which Harry didn't at the time. It also could describe an Einherjar, or one of Odin's warriors that were brought to Valhalla until the time when Odin needs them in the final battle.
--- Quote ---Yeah, and therefore it came out of nowhere and somehow now needs to be accepted as absolutely ironclad canon? For me, the whole deal of making Murphy an Einherjar is suspect from the outset, since she was a devout catholic and that did not change by the time of her death. So a "yep, we took her and now you can't see her" from the norse faction seems just a tad sus to me.
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Actually making Murphy an Einherjar doesn't come out of nowhere. After she left the police force, Murphy worked for Odin and trained extensively with the Einherjar. As far as her being a devout Catholic, that has mainly been an assumption that we the readers have had, on the written page the evidence really isn't that clear that she was. Catholic, yes, but devout when compared to say Michael? Not so much, she might have been raised Catholic, but she can't be described as a practicing Catholic, Murphy has never mentioned attending Mass or going to Confession.
--- Quote ---"God's Law" is also a bit indeterminate here. He had no problem smiting all the vampires, but every time Nic plays the "Yup, I'm totally giving up here, teehee" card, everybody wielding one of the swords needs to take some stupid pills? In any case, even if Murphy erred in this particular instance, that doesn't just invalidate what she did at Chitzen Itza and that she was used as a direct conduit to deliver a message. In my eyes, that means the G-man owes her one.
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Maybe the payback is letting her go to Valhalla? A couple of things don't quite compute here. If Murphy was really a devout Catholic do you think she'd be overjoyed about drinking ale with the rest of the dead warriors in Valhalla instead of Heaven working with her father? Yes, she did well in C I, so instead of putting her in purgatory she gets to go to Valhalla. So a better fit since she trusts in her will and judgement and not the Almighty's will and judgement, not a punishment exactly, but not really a reward either if she was indeed a woman of faith..
magnuskn:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 02, 2025, 12:45:44 PM ---Thank you for the quote, it still doesn't make Murphy a Valkyrie in the future. It is a good way to describe a female warrior, especially when one doesn't know that much about Valkyrie, which Harry didn't at the time. It also could describe an Einherjar, or one of Odin's warriors that were brought to Valhalla until the time when Odin needs them in the final battle.
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I guess we'll see. :)
--- Quote from: Mira on September 02, 2025, 12:45:44 PM ---Actually making Murphy an Einherjar doesn't come out of nowhere. After she left the police force, Murphy worked for Odin and trained extensively with the Einherjar. As far as her being a devout Catholic, that has mainly been an assumption that we the readers have had, on the written page the evidence really isn't that clear that she was. Catholic, yes, but devout when compared to say Michael? Not so much, she might have been raised Catholic, but she can't be described as a practicing Catholic, Murphy has never mentioned attending Mass or going to Confession.
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I'm pretty sure she was described as such in the books, but it's hard to track down such quotes, unless you come along them by chance. As I advance in the books towards the current one, before the release of Twelve Months, I'll try to find one.
--- Quote from: Mira on September 02, 2025, 12:45:44 PM ---Maybe the payback is letting her go to Valhalla? A couple of things do quite compute here. If Murphy was really a devout Catholic do you think she'd be overjoyed about drinking ale with the rest of the dead warriors in Valhalla instead of Heaven working with her father? Yes, she did well in C I, so instead of putting her in purgatory she gets to go to Valhalla. So a better fit since she trusts in her will and judgement and not the Almighty's will and judgement, not a punishment exactly, but not really a reward either if she was indeed a woman of faith..
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I don't think Murphy deserves a punishment in the first place. We'll see how things develop in the coming books, because if Jim would have wanted to write her out completely, she'd be gone completely.
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