Author Topic: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?  (Read 7058 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2025, 11:58:47 AM »
What about the chickens who personify “evil”?

 Yeah, everyone thinks chickens are pretty benign, scratching and clucking away peacefully, occasionally laying an egg.. However they do peck on one another, if they create a wound, they will gang up on the wounded one and peck at it till it dies...

Offline Talby16

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2025, 08:37:50 PM »
I believe Merlin built the Guardian magic atop the (pre-existing) Genus Loci spirit.
I know of no WoJ specifying/clarifying this issue... not really even any hints, alas!
 

I agree with that perspective. A confluence of ley lines should be enough to generate a Genus Loci spirit. I would hazard to guess that the creation of Demonreach and resulting power contained there would have a corrupting influence on a spirit over time. Therefore, I hypothesize that Merlin altered/bargained with/molded the original genus loci into Alfred in order to make sure it would not be corrupted and could fulfill its role as the Guardian.

Offline prince lotore

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2025, 08:34:28 PM »
I always figured that Harry was a direct descendant of merlin. We know that Ebenezer's journals go back to merlin what if the journals are passed though a family but wizards being wizards no one realizes that they were all related. We don't know who taught eb what if it was an estranged parent. Ebenezer had to learn it from someone and acts like it's the only way to protect his family
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body
thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a
ride!

Offline g33k

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2025, 10:11:08 PM »
... A confluence of ley lines should be enough to generate a Genus Loci spirit ...
I'm pretty sure the prisoners in the well are the origin of the ley-line confluence; it's all radiating-out from them, rather than outside lines randomly "just happening" to cross there.

 

Offline Talby16

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2025, 02:28:14 AM »
I'm pretty sure the prisoners in the well are the origin of the ley-line confluence; it's all radiating-out from them, rather than outside lines randomly "just happening" to cross there.

Maybe. In Small Favor Captain Luccio states that a ley line runs right through the island and that it could be used to power a "greater circle" to trap the Archive. That means that ley lines in and of themselves throw off enough power and given enough time and some additional events a genus loci could develop. I interpret Harry's talk with Alfred in Cold Days to mean that the prisoners are creating a well of energy (referred to as the body heat they throw off) that supercharges the ley line that is already present.

All that being said, as I am typing this, I realize that this prison was established by Merlin in the beginning days of the White Council. The White Council mapped the ley lines. It is possible that the prisoners are the original source of the ley line. Merlin could have created the prison and the ley line developed as the prisoners were added or he could have created the prison on top of an existing ley line and the prisoners supercharged it with their body heat.

Offline LordDresden2

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2025, 08:26:36 PM »
I always figured that Harry was a direct descendant of merlin. We know that Ebenezer's journals go back to merlin what if the journals are passed though a family but wizards being wizards no one realizes that they were all related. We don't know who taught eb what if it was an estranged parent. Ebenezer had to learn it from someone and acts like it's the only way to protect his family

Yeah, but if Merlin left any blood descendants at all, by now there would almost certainly be Merlinian blood in half the population.

Genealogy is funny that way, it's amazing how fast one person's descent lines spread out.  It's like Michael being descended from royalty.  Sure, but so is almost everyone else.  I have little doubt that I am descended from some of the Roman Emperors, for ex.  So is everyone else, to a first approximation.

Offline Talby16

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2025, 03:54:05 AM »
Yeah, but if Merlin left any blood descendants at all, by now there would almost certainly be Merlinian blood in half the population.

Genealogy is funny that way, it's amazing how fast one person's descent lines spread out.  It's like Michael being descended from royalty.  Sure, but so is almost everyone else.  I have little doubt that I am descended from some of the Roman Emperors, for ex.  So is everyone else, to a first approximation.

Six degrees from Kevin Bacon, but insert Merlin instead.

Offline RobReece

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2025, 11:25:25 PM »
What if Merlin is a Mantle? And no not like the title in the White Council.... though in thinking that, maybe Merlin is a Mantle that was forgotten (on purpose or by accident) but though lore/history the White Councile adopted it a title.
I think The Merlin might include a mantle, and it might have originated with the og Merlin, I don't think future Harry is Merlin

Offline g33k

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2025, 11:18:53 PM »
Yeah, but if Merlin left any blood descendants at all, by now there would almost certainly be Merlinian blood in half the population.

Genealogy is funny that way...

Not all bloodlines do; some don't reproduce well, they just... dwindle, and end.

I'm pretty sure the Archive bloodline has major mojo associated that ensures there's always one daughter -- but never more than one -- to receive the Archive itself when the prior holder dies.

I'd be unsurprised to learn that there was some weirdness around Merlin's bloodline; but it could equally-well be some working where the OG Merlin made sure that literally everybody in the world was his descendant (maybe his blood had some uber-Starborn world-protection properties... or maybe he was just terribly egocentric that way); or maybe he ensured that he had no descendants, because his bloodline was too dangerous.

I don't think we've seen either canonical in-universe nor WoJ on the matter; only that Eb (and thus Harry) are in the Merlin's Master-to-Apprentice teaching lineage.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2025, 11:23:43 PM by g33k »