Author Topic: RNT Episode 4: Is Monica Sells Morally Culpable for what happens in Storm Front?  (Read 4423 times)

Offline Talby16

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When you start down the moral culpability road it starts to get unclear..  None of what happened is Monica's fault, also she went as far as she was able to or capable of going to Harry in the first place.
Since morality is subjective based upon one's beliefs and experiences it is hard to paint with a wide brush when it comes to culpability.

Offline Bridger

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Since morality is subjective based upon one's beliefs and experiences it is hard to paint with a wide brush when it comes to culpability.

That's what makes this such an interesting question!  I expect we'll have more interesting moral quandries to ponder as we continue our progress through the books on the podcast.

Offline Mira

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Since morality is subjective based upon one's beliefs and experiences it is hard to paint with a wide brush when it comes to culpability.

  Monica did bring it to the attention of someone.  Someone, i.e. a wizard who would actually be able to understand and act.  It took great courage just to take that baby step. 

Offline Talby16

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  Monica did bring it to the attention of someone.  Someone, i.e. a wizard who would actually be able to understand and act.  It took great courage just to take that baby step.

I agree that given her history it took great courage to take that step. She was potentially putting herself in the cross hairs of the person she was asking to fix the situation. However, what exactly did she bring to Harry's attention? Did she tell him that her husband is creating drugs, participating in black magic, and killing people? She deserves credit for going to Harry, but that doesn't change the fact that she did not tell him the whole story and in a sense mislead him to what the problem was. She told him her husband was missing (true from a certain point of view), but was hoping to put the wizard on a collision course with the Three Eye Operation in order to shut it down. Had she told him more of the truth he might have been better prepared to resolve the situation without it getting as messy. Heck he could have kicked up to the Wardens who would have been all too happy to go medieval on that operation.

Putting aside Monica's background for a second, trying to do the right thing later does not erase moral culpability from earlier actions. If I and a partner rob and kill someone together and then I later go to the cops to turn myself in and give them information to catch my partner, it doesn't change what I had done. It doesn't paint my actions in a different moral light.

Does Monica deserve grace for her situation? Yes. Does Monica deserve credit for reaching out for help despite her situation? Yes. Does she bear some moral culpability for joining the activities in the first place, not reaching out for help sooner, and misleading Dresden when she reached out for help? I would argue yes, but as I said in an earlier post, that goes not equate to punishment. No reasonable jury is going to lay the hammer down on her.

Offline Mira

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I agree that given her history it took great courage to take that step. She was potentially putting herself in the cross hairs of the person she was asking to fix the situation. However, what exactly did she bring to Harry's attention? Did she tell him that her husband is creating drugs, participating in black magic, and killing people? She deserves credit for going to Harry, but that doesn't change the fact that she did not tell him the whole story and in a sense mislead him to what the problem was. She told him her husband was missing (true from a certain point of view), but was hoping to put the wizard on a collision course with the Three Eye Operation in order to shut it down. Had she told him more of the truth he might have been better prepared to resolve the situation without it getting as messy. Heck he could have kicked up to the Wardens who would have been all too happy to go medieval on that operation.

Not that simple, when it comes to an abused woman, a terrified abused woman. A conflicted woman, who in spite of everything still loved or thought she loved her husband, dealing with the reality of what he had become. Monica couldn't get away from him, when her sister stood up for her telling Victor to let her go, he killed her.  No, Monica wasn't capable of logically thinking it through like you describe, nor culpable.  She went to Harry because she knew enough to know the police would merely think her insane.. She was terrified for her kids, as Harry said;


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Where she was, there was nothing but an endless, hopeless darkness full of fear, pain, and defeat.

That's what he saw in the soul gaze, that's why he was so gentle with her.

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Putting aside Monica's background for a second, trying to do the right thing later does not erase moral culpability from earlier actions. If I and a partner rob and kill someone together and then I later go to the cops to turn myself in and give them information to catch my partner, it doesn't change what I had done. It doesn't paint my actions in a different moral light.

However Monica's background cannot be put aside, it is part of the picture..  If your partner bullied you, if you had no self esteem to begin with because you had been bullied all of your life, if you loved your partner in spite of everything, you might go along.. Does it change the fact that you helped? No, but neither are you totally responsible for your actions. When someone's mind has been so screwed with you cannot judge that their thinking was rational, it wasn't.. To be morally responsible I believe you also have to be able to think rationally, Monica wasn't.
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Does Monica deserve grace for her situation? Yes. Does Monica deserve credit for reaching out for help despite her situation? Yes. Does she bear some moral culpability for joining the activities in the first place, not reaching out for help sooner, and misleading Dresden when she reached out for help? I would argue yes, but as I said in an earlier post, that goes not equate to punishment. No reasonable jury is going to lay the hammer down on her.

Because she wasn't morally culpable, her problems started long before she met Victor.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2025, 11:51:07 AM by Mira »

Offline Talby16

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However Monica's background cannot be put aside, it is part of the picture..  If your partner bullied you, if you had no self esteem to begin with because you had been bullied all of your life, if you loved your partner in spite of everything, you might go along.. Does it change the fact that you helped? No, but neither are you totally responsible for your actions.

I have been thinking long and hard about this question. I have a hard time removing all moral culpability from someone regardless of what they went through. Actions need to be interpreted in light of circumstances, but circumstances don't justify all actions or inactions. What Monica went though is horrible and she was put in an awful position, but, in my opinion, circumstances do not wipe the slate clean and remove all culpability.

To be morally responsible I believe you also have to be able to think rationally, Monica wasn't.
By this logic any moral culpability for any action committed in the heat of the moment or out of passion could be excused because the person was not thinking rationally in that moment.

Because she wasn't morally culpable, her problems started long before she met Victor.

I doubt that you and I will ever come to agreement on this subject and that is ok. It takes all perspectives to make a village.

Offline Mira

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I have been thinking long and hard about this question. I have a hard time removing all moral culpability from someone regardless of what they went through. Actions need to be interpreted in light of circumstances, but circumstances don't justify all actions or inactions. What Monica went though is horrible and she was put in an awful position, but, in my opinion, circumstances do not wipe the slate clean and remove all culpability.

No?  Do you blame someone suffering from mental illness?  In fact because of the abuse she had suffered all of her life, Monica could not be rational in these matters.
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By this logic any moral culpability for any action committed in the heat of the moment or out of passion could be excused because the person was not thinking rationally in that moment.
Apples to oranges, Monica isn't a rational person acting out in the heat of the moment nor out of passion.  She was and is a victim, suffering from a long list of emotional and mental issues stemming from her life time as a victim of abuse.

Just Googled it.
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What are the long-term effects of childhood trauma and abuse?
Problems now concretely linked to child abuse and neglect include behavioral and achievement problems in school; heart, lung and liver disease; obesity and diabetes; depression, anxiety disorders, and increased suicide attempts; increased criminal behaviors, illicit drug use and alcohol abuse; increased risky sexual ...

You are blaming the victim here, Monica is a victim here every bit as much as Victor's other victims.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2025, 11:41:21 AM by Mira »