The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

The Erl King a Vassal of Winter?

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LordDresden2:

--- Quote from: g33k on March 28, 2025, 06:52:07 PM ---That's a fantheory I've read, but IIRC WoJ has explicitly denied it.  In particular, there is only one Winter Queen & Summer Queen, and there is no corresponding singular King for either.  The Erlking is a king (who is Summer(ish)), but not the king -- except of the Goblins.

I don't even think Kringle is a "King" per se; but (as a part of Winter) he is in fact subject to Mab (something she's careful about, since the current Kringle is only part-time, and the rest of the time he's... rather more than that).

--- End quote ---

It would be interesting to see how Kringle interacts with the Mothers.  JB said at one point that pretty much everybody in Faerie is subordinate to the Mothers, but is Odin?  I mean he's not exactly 'of Faerie' in his own identity...

Mira:

--- Quote ---It would be interesting to see how Kringle interacts with the Mothers.  JB said at one point that pretty much everybody in Faerie is subordinate to the Mothers, but is Odin?  I mean he's not exactly 'of Faerie' in his own identity...

--- End quote ---

I doubt that he is because he is a "god" in his own right.

g33k:

--- Quote from: Mira on April 26, 2025, 12:01:47 PM ---I doubt that he is because he is a "god" in his own right.
--- End quote ---

So long as he wears the Kringle mantle, he's subject to Winter.
But he appears able to put it on and take it off at will.

Mira:

--- Quote from: g33k on April 27, 2025, 06:59:32 PM ---So long as he wears the Kringle mantle, he's subject to Winter.
But he appears able to put it on and take it off at will.

--- End quote ---

More like an associate of Winter or with Winter, I doubt that Kringle would take a direct order from Mab for example, or that she would give one.. I think they actually agree on a lot of stuff, I also think because of his multiple mantles that he is way too complex to be a subject.

g33k:

--- Quote from: Mira on April 28, 2025, 11:37:16 AM --- More like an associate of Winter or with Winter, I doubt that Kringle would take a direct order from Mab for example, or that she would give one.. I think they actually agree on a lot of stuff, I also think because of his multiple mantles that he is way too complex to be a subject.
--- End quote ---

Yes, Odin & Mab agree on lots of stuff (as we saw in Skin Game)... though not on all things.

But the Kringlemantle is one of Winters/Mab's.  Within the scope of Kringle's duties, it is entirely subject to Winterlaw.  Now... Mab does not wish to be seriously at odds with Odin, so she isn't likely to give
any orders that Odin -- or Vadderung -- finds deeply offensive.  By the same token, Odin doesn't want to be seriously at odds with Mab, so Kringle is always looking for ways to be inoffensive.

When push comes to shove (if Mab orders something he's unwilling to do) Odin can simply take off the Kringlemantle and say, "nope."

The thing is:  neither of them want this to happen simply as a result of Aesir/Faerie political squabbling, or points of pride between the two monarchs or their courts.  The Kringlemantle and what it represents and does is important to both of them.  Without ever actually speaking about it, they are lowkey collaborating to avoid needless conflicts; and both of them are pretty damned good at that sort of tactico-strategic thinking, so it works well (and has for hundreds of years).

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