Blood Rites foreshadowing

[g33k]

... my theory that Justine had been infested from the beginning ...

A small datum in favor of your theory:  remember the end of the book where we met the oh-so-lovely Justine?

Didn't Thomas send Justine as a "gift" to Harry?
That was a horribly... objectifying thing to do; which seems unlikely if he was in love (or falling in love) with Justine!  If he just wanted to "be nice to Harry," he could doubtless have arranged for any number of lovely kine in the Raith orbit, who'd willingly have given Harry the most erotic night of his life, just to curry a bit of extra favor with the Whampires.

What if Thomas actually didn't send her?
What if it was Nemesis, trying to get closer to Harry?
Or maybe he did do it... but only because of some subtle manipulation by Nemfected-Justine?
 

[g33k]

... I think she is more suited to be Mab's replacement. The whole Winter Lady virgin thing would not be so nice for Lara.

The basic theory that Mab is considering en-Mantling Lara seems likely.

I think Mab has thoughts about which role would be better for Lara, but that -- being Mab -- she has specific plans for each of the Lady-Mantle and the Queen-Mantle going to Lara (depending on how things play out).
 

[Mira]

The basic theory that Mab is considering en-Mantling Lara seems likely.

I think Mab has thoughts about which role would be better for Lara, but that -- being Mab -- she has specific plans for each of the Lady-Mantle and the Queen-Mantle going to Lara (depending on how things play out).

Actually I don't think so,  for one thing, Mab cannot control Lara, and Lara is into controlling things as much as Mab and is as smart as well.  So no, when you think about it Mab doesn't really want Lara as her Lady,replacement or most important of all, rival.  She does have an obligation to honor, Lara wants an alliance with Winter, but Mab wants it on her terms.. What better way to throw a rock in the machinery than to order her Knight who will find a way of not doing what she orders, and thus doing exactly what she wants.. 

[Lord Kinbote]

Is it possible that Mab is Lara's mother?  I don't believe Lara's mother has ever been mentioned.  As noted elsewhere in this topic thread, there are times where wintry words and phrases are used to describe Lara, including by at least one of the Fae (Toot-Toot).

Being Lara's mother would also explain why Mab couldn't marry Lara.  You know there was a reason for Butcher to insert that curious and awkward exchange into Battle Ground; wholly unnecessary other than to provide some clue or foreshadowing to the readers. What other reason could be something that would be fair to readers?  Later explaining with saying *because magic* or *because an offspring is needed* wouldn't be a payoff for the wording of that exchange.

And it seems clear that Mab as the Winter Queen can get pregnant since she gave birth to changeling near-twins Maeve and Sarissa - unless their father was Fae and they were conceived when Mab was human and before she assumed a mantle, which was no earlier than the Battle of Hastings in 1066.  But that would mean that Sarissa was a changeling for more than 1,000 years. Maeve's recitation of Sarissa's pursuits suggests many decades, maybe a few centuries, but I don't think 1,000+ years.

[Mira]

Is it possible that Mab is Lara's mother?  I don't believe Lara's mother has ever been mentioned.  As noted elsewhere in this topic thread, there are times where wintry words and phrases are used to describe Lara, including by at least one of the Fae (Toot-Toot).

Being Lara's mother would also explain why Mab couldn't marry Lara.  You know there was a reason for Butcher to insert that curious and awkward exchange into Battle Ground; wholly unnecessary other than to provide some clue or foreshadowing to the readers. What other reason could be something that would be fair to readers?  Later explaining with saying *because magic* or *because an offspring is needed* wouldn't be a payoff for the wording of that exchange.

And it seems clear that Mab as the Winter Queen can get pregnant since she gave birth to changeling near-twins Maeve and Sarissa - unless their father was Fae and they were conceived when Mab was human and before she assumed a mantle, which was no earlier than the Battle of Hastings in 1066.  But that would mean that Sarissa was a changeling for more than 1,000 years. Maeve's recitation of Sarissa's pursuits suggests many decades, maybe a few centuries, but I don't think 1,000+ years.

Why do you call them near twins and not just twins?  No, they are not alike but maternal twins are not alike though they develop
 in the womb at the same time, but two eggs and two sperms.  I don't think unless it is a WOJ that it says anywhere that Fae cannot have children..  Also even now Mab isn't totally Fae, some human remains as we learned at the end of Cold Days.

[Mr. Mouse]

Is it possible that Mab is Lara's mother? 

Harry would have noticed Mab's picture in Lord Raith's Gallery Of Baby Mamas.

[Mira]

Harry would have noticed Mab's picture in Lord Raith's Gallery Of Baby Mamas.

I agree.

[Snark Knight]

I concur with this theory..  It fits with my theory that Justine had been infested from the beginning.  Lord Raith knows full well who the half brother of Thomas is, he may even know what Harry is, so Justine infected thrown together with Thomas as a way to control him.  Also knowing that Thomas and Harry will get together at some point so eventually a way to get at Harry.  And as we saw at the end of Battleground it almost worked.

Given the number of slots of how many characters Nemesis can have infected at a time is limited, using one to seduce Thomas before he even met Harry would be a pretty big gamble on her turning out to be usefully positioned later on.

I think they got to her quite a while ago, but after her first appearance on page.

[Mira]

Given the number of slots of how many characters Nemesis can have infected at a time is limited, using one to seduce Thomas before he even met Harry would be a pretty big gamble on her turning out to be usefully positioned later on.

I think they got to her quite a while ago, but after her first appearance on page.

Not really, Lord Raith put Justine together with Thomas, then arranged for Thomas to be as the party in Grave Peril.  Also Nemesis would know a lot more about the connection between Thomas and Harry because of Lord Raith's connection to their mother, Margaret.

[Talby16]

Nice find. Do you think she will one day replace Mab or the Winter Lady?

I think she is more suited to be Mab's replacement. The whole Winter Lady virgin thing would not be so nice for Lara.

I believe that it is established by WOJ that mantles fill from the bottom up. If the Queen dies the Lady becomes the new Queen and selects a new lady. Mab was the lady with Lea as her handmaiden when the previous Queen died and she ascended to the role. Based upon the Molly short story about her first mission where the mantle injures Carlos to protect Molly from having sex, I assume that being a virgin is part and parcel to being the Lady. That would rule Lara out for the Lady role. I believe part of the ascension to Queen is having sex with the purpose of having children thus breaking the virgin and maiden role of the Lady. I do not know if Lara could become the Queen either.

[Mira]

I believe that it is established by WOJ that mantles fill from the bottom up. If the Queen dies the Lady becomes the new Queen and selects a new lady. Mab was the lady with Lea as her handmaiden when the previous Queen died and she ascended to the role. Based upon the Molly short story about her first mission where the mantle injures Carlos to protect Molly from having sex, I assume that being a virgin is part and parcel to being the Lady. That would rule Lara out for the Lady role. I believe part of the ascension to Queen is having sex with the purpose of having children thus breaking the virgin and maiden role of the Lady. I do not know if Lara could become the Queen either.

Not sure of the details, but I agree.  Reading this I wonder if a Winter Knight is actually the father of Maeve and Sarissa? 

[Talby16]

Not sure of the details, but I agree.  Reading this I wonder if a Winter Knight is actually the father of Maeve and Sarissa?

We know that he was an Austrian Composer (if I recall correctly). Could be the Winter Knight.

Based upon the Molly short story about her first mission where the mantle injures Carlos to protect Molly from having sex, I assume that being a virgin is part and parcel to being the Lady. That would rule Lara out for the Lady role. I believe part of the ascension to Queen is having sex with the purpose of having children thus breaking the virgin and maiden role of the Lady. I do not know if Lara could become the Queen either.

Sorry for the self quote, but I was thinking about my answer and I may need to correct myself. I cannot remember if the Winter Lady has to be a virgin or just has not had any kids yet. The mantle may be protecting the Lady from having sex to avoid having kids. If I have time I will try to hunt that WOJ down.

[Mira]

We know that he was an Austrian Composer (if I recall correctly). Could be the Winter Knight.

No reason he couldn't be both, then again Mab may have had her children before she became Lady.

[Talby16]

Here is the WOJ for the succession of mantles:

if the Ladies become the Queen, what happens to the Mothers at that point? The thing is that the Mothers are kind of the foundation.  So, it’s not so much what happens to them because the little mantles changed. It’s what happens to the little mantles if the big mantles change. So, if someone whacks the being that is, for all intents and purposes, Baba Yaga, and then Mab succeeds, then Mab becomes the new Baba Yaga, and Molly gets drawn up to Mab, and they have to find someone else to become the new Lady. But on the other hand, the Mothers are extremely powerful beings (continued in the cosmology/mantle sub-section)
2009 Independence signing:

Here is the WOJ for Maeve and Sarissa's Father:

Can we get a break down of the biological relationships between the various Fae Queens we have seen on screen?
Of particular interest – Maeve and Sarissa, were they actually Mab’s kids (biological sense)? If so, who was Mab’s baby daddy?
Mab and Titania are actual twin sisters.
Maeve and Sarissa were twin sisters, from Mab. Their father was an Austrian composer and musician who died young.
2015 DragonCon

[Mr. Mouse]

Mab's baby daddy is Mozart.

And no, I'm not going to suggest that Salieri is Cowl.