The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
We gotta talk about Margaret LeFay
Mira:
--- Quote ---If not, how the hell not? Per WoJ, she was having "lots of awesome vampire sex" which seems to make an enthrallment a pretty foregone conclusion! Had she figured out some magical "solution" that Raith (who was (at the time) the strongest Whampire in the world, & at the height of his prowess!) somehow couldn't bypass??!?
--- End quote ---
My theory was she was still pushing for a star born, or perhaps Mab was pushing her in that direction. I seriously doubt that she was enthralled by him. She may have had just enough arrogance to think she could handle him, also she may have fallen into another trap that women often fall into, she thought he'd treat her differently.
--- Quote ---But then if (as frankly seems nigh-inevitable) she was enthralled... how did she break free? She didn't meet & fall in love with Malcolm until later! And letting one of your thralls run free is a real "n00b error" that I cannot see from Raith (at that point (q.v. "strongest Whampire in the world" and "at the height of his prowess") in his life). I actually do have an idea, here: it was Lea. We know that Maggie was already "LaFey" and with an extensive suite of Fae info/contacts (presumably including Lea). And Lea's specialty was "inspiring mortals... to their eventual doom" per WoJ; it's "how she made her bones" in Winter & got to be the powerhouse we see in the books. Presumably Lea had the power to "inspire" Maggie to break free (I'm sure Lea's power beats Papa Raith's).
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As I said, I doubt that she was enthralled, she may have simply tired of Raith and his antics. Also once she fell in love with Malcolm she may have felt protected by true love. She could very well have been, but that was physical contact, but couldn't save her from an entrophy spell.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 26, 2024, 03:16:32 PM --- ... I seriously doubt that she was enthralled by him ...
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To be clear, I mean specifically the Whamp-mojo kind of "enthrallment," not just the normal "honeymoon phase" hot-new-romance "they're enthralled with their new lover" kind.
Unless Papa Raith took pains not to enthrall her, the things we have seen tend to suggest that Maggie would inevitably have become enthralled... And we have little-to-no evidence tht Raith would have been motivated not to.
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on July 26, 2024, 03:56:57 PM ---To be clear, I mean specifically the Whamp-mojo kind of "enthrallment," not just the normal "honeymoon phase" hot-new-romance "they're enthralled with their new lover" kind.
Unless Papa Raith took pains not to enthrall her, the things we have seen tend to suggest that Maggie would inevitably have become enthralled... And we have little-to-no evidence tht Raith would have been motivated not to.
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Except I don't remember where it says anywhere that White Court vamps can enthrall anyone.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 26, 2024, 05:30:42 PM --- Except I don't remember where it says anywhere that White Court vamps can enthrall anyone.
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It's how the White Court gets full control of somebody. The amazing sex can be addictively-good -- and as with other addictions, almost impossible to break (particularly with a sapient addiction, like a whampire!!!); but if they want to, the whampires can go even further than that.
We saw it in Turn Coat: Vince Graber (the PI) was hired by a mortal lawyer, Evelyn Derek; she in turn was enthralled by a Whampire -- likely Madeline Raith.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 26, 2024, 12:33:02 PM ---
At the end of the day, Thomas did commit murder, you can argue about his motives, but he was willing to kill and it wasn't the Hunger Demon driving him to do it.
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Yes, it was the Hunger demon doing it. Shagnasty starved him to the point that the demon took over, then fed the girls to it while Thomas more or less wasn't there anymore. Then Shagnasty would let the Hunger feed enough for Thomas to regain himself, realize what had happened, then repeat the process...over and over.
--- Quote from: Mira on July 26, 2024, 03:16:32 PM --- My theory was she was still pushing for a star born, or perhaps Mab was pushing her in that direction. I seriously doubt that she was enthralled by him. She may have had just enough arrogance to think she could handle him, also she may have fallen into another trap that women often fall into, she thought he'd treat her differently
As I said, I doubt that she was enthralled, she may have simply tired of Raith and his antics.
--- End quote ---
Since she was partaking of supersex on an apparently ongoing basis, it's hard to imagine that she wasn't addicted.
Almost every account we've heard speaks of Margaret 'escaping' from the White Court. However it started (and I have no doubt Margaret's self-confessed arrogance led her into it), by the time it ended she was not in control. What we don't know are the details. Was she trapped purely by addiction? Or were there other restraints in play?
I have no doubt LR is arrogant enough to assume that his whammy is too strong for a woman to escape. But at the same time, Margaret was a valuable possession, it would have been in the interests of others to capture her, so I imagine there were guards or some safety check in place.
But we have no details.
--- Quote from: g33k on July 27, 2024, 09:30:01 PM ---It's how the White Court gets full control of somebody. The amazing sex can be addictively-good -- and as with other addictions, almost impossible to break (particularly with a sapient addiction, like a whampire!!!); but if they want to, the whampires can go even further than that.
We saw it in Turn Coat: Vince Graber (the PI) was hired by a mortal lawyer, Evelyn Derek; she in turn was enthralled by a Whampire -- likely Madeline Raith.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, most of the time it's just straight-up addiction. You can call addiction a form of enthrallment, but Evelyn Derek is beyond that. OTOH, we don't know if the WVs can do that level of mind manipulation to just anyone, either. Messing with Derek's mind is one thing, a White Council level Witch is another.
But yeah, it's almost impossible to imagine that Margaret could regularly get busy with Lord Raith (one of the most powerful WVs) and not be, in effect, a junkie before long.
JB has told us very little about the details of Margaret's escape...and that's probably intentional, because the details would probably tell us a lot about the overall Big Picture that Harry is trapped within.
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