The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
We gotta talk about Margaret LeFay
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: g33k on July 21, 2024, 03:34:12 PM ---I've long suspected that Eb is particularly anti-whampire because they cost him his wife (Maggie-Sr's mother).
--- End quote ---
That seems likely, though it could be someone else.
Also...when he was warning Harry about the danger of WV 'friendships' in Turn Coat, he did say that the WVs are so good at lying that maybe they sometimes even believe it themselves (that they are friends with a mortal). Considering how much he hates them, that's an odd thing for him to allow.
This theory doesn't have much hard basis, it's just a WAG on my part, but it might explain Eb's comments to Harry in TC: I just wonder if Eb's wife and/or Margaret's mother (they could still theoretically be different women) died because Eb, or she, or both were 'friends' with a WV who lost control of his/her demon at some point, and killed her.
Because that can happen. We've already seen, in Turn Coat for ex, that even Thomas, who desperately wants to not be evil, is still an unexploded bomb around mortals, potentially. As Eb said, if Thomas gets Hungry enough, the demon takes over and nobody is safe until it feeds. Eb wasn't wrong about that. Thomas would have killed Molly if she hadn't had that force-field defense.
Harry received more or less the same warning about the danger of White Vampires from Bob, all the way back in book five or so.
g33k:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on July 22, 2024, 05:50:37 AM --- ...
Because that can happen. We've already seen, in Turn Coat for ex, that even Thomas, who desperately wants to not be evil, is still an unexploded bomb around mortals, potentially. As Eb said, if Thomas gets Hungry enough, the demon takes over and nobody is safe until it feeds. Eb wasn't wrong about that. Thomas would have killed Molly if she hadn't had that force-field defense ...
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I mean... something similar is true for anyone strong or well-trained.
I'm no John Wick, but if I seriously snapped, facing someone untrained, I could kill them in just a few seconds. Anyone with a gun & a lost temper can do it even faster. Murphy talks about it with Harry, once or twice, likening her training as aikidoka to Harry's as a wizard; the danger that they both are, the training and discipline they both need.
In PT, Eb would have killed Harry, if Harry hadn't been piloting a Faerie Exosuit.
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on July 22, 2024, 06:25:36 AM ---I mean... something similar is true for anyone strong or well-trained.
I'm no John Wick, but if I seriously snapped, facing someone untrained, I could kill them in just a few seconds. Anyone with a gun & a lost temper can do it even faster. Murphy talks about it with Harry, once or twice, likening her training as aikidoka to Harry's as a wizard; the danger that they both are, the training and discipline they both need.
In PT, Eb would have killed Harry, if Harry hadn't been piloting a Faerie Exosuit.
--- End quote ---
Slight correction, Eb did kill Harry, but it was his doppelganger and not him, thanks to his foresight and the ring that Molly made for him..
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: g33k on July 22, 2024, 06:25:36 AM ---
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on July 22, 2024, 05:50:37 AM ---...
Because that can happen. We've already seen, in Turn Coat for ex, that even Thomas, who desperately wants to not be evil, is still an unexploded bomb around mortals, potentially. As Eb said, if Thomas gets Hungry enough, the demon takes over and nobody is safe until it feeds. Eb wasn't wrong about that. Thomas would have killed Molly if she hadn't had that force-field defense ...
--- End quote ---
I mean... something similar is true for anyone strong or well-trained.
I'm no John Wick, but if I seriously snapped, facing someone untrained, I could kill them in just a few seconds. Anyone with a gun & a lost temper can do it even faster. Murphy talks about it with Harry, once or twice, likening her training as aikidoka to Harry's as a wizard; the danger that they both are, the training and discipline they both need.
--- End quote ---
It's not the same thing.
Yes, anyone can snap and kill someone else. I could go nuts while driving down the road and deliberately drive into a crowd and run down some people, etc.
But in each case those are all 'ifs'. Any given person might snap and do something lethal, but in most people it's very improbable. There's no specific condition where it's essentially 100% certain to happen. Even a person who is dying of starvation, and whose only possible source of food is to kill and eat a friend or relative or whatever, is not certain to murder to live. People can and have died rather than violate their morals or their loyalties. Not everyone will do so, but it's always a possibility, and the flip side is that it's never certain that a given person will go bad.
But any WV is a different story. If he or she gets Hungry enough, the demon shuts down the human personality and takes over, and that WV turns into nothing more than a very, very dangerous predator optimized to feed on humans. He or she will remain in that state until the demon feeds, or the WV is destroyed.
Not might. Not could. It will happen, if the demon gets sufficiently Hungry. And that's true of every WV, including Thomas.
It's the full 'silver eyes' state, and in that state, the WV doesn't care if he or she eats an enemy, a friend, a lover, whoever. Any human within strike range is potential food for the demon.
Thomas managed, one time, to break off feeding on Justine just before she was dead. But it was apparently a close-run thing even there, and it happened only after the demon had fed on her to the point of near-death (assuming that whole incident wasn't somehow a Nemesis deception).
A WV that kills in that state might regret it afterward. I'm sure Thomas would have been wracked with horror and guilt if he had eaten Molly. But though he might weep over her grave (assuming someone didn't immediately kill him for it), Molly would be no less dead.
The thing is that that demon is always there, always waiting, always ready to go on a feeding spree if it gets Hungry enough. One could even argue, mathematically, that it's certain that any WV that lives long enough will, sooner or later, fall into a situation where he or she loses control of their demon. It's kind of like an asteroid impact, improbable today or tomorrow or any other given day, but nearly certain over unlimited time.
WV are dangerous.
Mira:
--- Quote ---A WV that kills in that state might regret it afterward. I'm sure Thomas would have been wracked with horror and guilt if he had eaten Molly. But though he might weep over her grave (assuming someone didn't immediately kill him for it), Molly would be no less dead.
--- End quote ---
Would he have? I'm not so sure, at the end of Turn Coat, Thomas fully admits in so many words after the Hunger Demon took over he enjoyed feeding on and killing those girls. Just a personal opinion, but I wish Jim had developed this Thomas more for Harry to deal with, I think Jim dropped the ball there.
page 413 Turn Coat;
--- Quote ---"Then talk to me," I said, urgently. "Thomas, Jesus Christ. This is not you."
"Yes, it is," he spat, the words a blended hiss. "That's what it taught me, Harry. At the end of the day, I'm just an empty place that needs to be filled." He shook his head. "I didn't want to kill those girls. But I did it. I killed them, over and over, and I loved how it felt. When I think back on the memory of it, it doesn't make me horrified." He sneered. "It just makes me hard."
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I was really disappointed, because that could have set up some really interesting conflict, and nothing, if anything was done with this. In Changes, Thomas was pretty back to who he was before the Skinwalker got a hold of him, and so was his relationship with Harry. Possible we might see it yet, now that Thomas is on the island reliving his crimes. I hope so.
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