The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Is Mab autistic?

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Mira:

--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on November 17, 2023, 02:52:12 AM ---Jim just answered a question about the Jade Court which probably applies to Mab.  Jim said that members of Jade Court behave in a manner that might appear to be autistic, but not exactly.  The reason it may apply to Mab is Jim said it's just the way that creatures who are functionally immortal keep themselves sane.  They wrap themselves in ritual, performing specific behaviors.  I think in the Jade Court's case this behavior is exacerbated by the fact that their particular culture is so insular to begin with.

This might explain why Mab told Harry that he should kill Molly if Mab died during the events in Battle Ground.  Molly doesn't perform the kind of behaviors that Mab has become accustomed to doing to function as an immortal.  However, it's possible that Mab is wrong, that Molly has just found a different way to adjust to the pressure of being immortal.  I suppose that is a question for a different thread and probably one that cannot be answered until sometime in the future. 

Here's a link to the exact quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRcj4gvGXKI
The question starts at about 32:30 into the talk

--- End quote ---

It makes sense, neither the Fae or the Jade Court are human, they are not mortals even if they appear that way, thus their behavior cannot be judged as mortals judge mortal behavior.  It does get tricky in cases like Mab, because she once was a mortal.  As Mother Winter says with disgust, "she is a romantic," meaning in my opinion that she believes that Mab's judgement is sometimes influenced by what little human or mortal that is left in her.  However Mab has worn a Fae mantel for so long she is 99.999% Fae now,views the world and reacts to the world mostly as a Fae, thus to mortals her behavior appears to be autistic..

Mother Summer tries to explain what ties and the divides mortals and the Fae to Harry in Cold Days pages 326-327


--- Quote ---" You are endlessly fascinating.  We conceive our children with mortals.  We move and sway in time to the mortal seasons.  We dance to mortal music, we make our homes like mortal dwellings, feast upon mortal foods. We find parts of ourselves becoming more like them, and yet we are not like them.  Many of the things they think and feel, and a great many of their actions, are inexplicable to us."
--- End quote ---


Harry doesn't say it, but mortals can return the favor, much of what the Fae think, feel, and actions are inexplicable to mortals... Thus while some mortals may view Mab's behavior as being autistic, in the end she is just behaving like a Fae.

g33k:

--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on November 12, 2023, 05:26:36 PM --- ... Nemesis, who specifically forms herself to that subconscious part and tries to trick you into thinking it's yourself ...
--- End quote ---

We've seen some other baddies with this trick.  The Whampire whispering despair in Elaine's mind... the Fallen whispering "all your fault" in Harry's.  Trying to pretend it was their own voices.

And the general "anger issues" Harry was having with the Shadow, pre-Sheila; I think that's part&parcel with the method.

Maybe Nemesis works that way; but I don't think we know, not for sure.  But... I'm slightly-inclined to think not, honestly.

We've seen the "conflicted" model, e.g. when Lea was flashing back and forth between Nemesis-dominated and her own impulses; or when Harry tried to get Cat Sith to break free.

We've seen fully-dominated, with Justine.

We don't really know what we saw with Maeve, or Aurora:  were they being "tricked into thinking it was themselves"?  Were they in the "fully-dominated" category?  Or were they actively & knowingly partnering with Nemesis?

We know Nemesis is subtle, in the "hard for an observer to detect" ways; but we don't know the details of how it approaches & interacts with hosts.

I don't think we've ever seen someone acting "puzzled" about why they did a thing, except a few times from the inside when Harry was realizing he'd had his brain bent (by Mab, or Lasciel's Shadow).

The_Sibelis:

--- Quote from: g33k on November 19, 2023, 06:53:04 AM ---We've seen some other baddies with this trick.  The Whampire whispering despair in Elaine's mind... the Fallen whispering "all your fault" in Harry's.  Trying to pretend it was their own voices.

And the general "anger issues" Harry was having with the Shadow, pre-Sheila; I think that's part&parcel with the method.

Maybe Nemesis works that way; but I don't think we know, not for sure.  But... I'm slightly-inclined to think not, honestly.
--- End quote ---
mmm, why? Don't remember the original basis, but the current model is from woj about Thomas having a coin and the fact his demon would get the short end of the stick on feeding since they largely occupy the same place in him,
That place would be the mirror, which sets part of why I think the denarians are specifically designed to deny Nemesis power inside reality. The fallen hold the same mirror, representative of the the shadow/subconscious as nemesis seeks to aligned with to reach through  and use the same chaotic/apocalyptic power to feed on.


--- Quote ---We've seen the "conflicted" model, e.g. when Lea was flashing back and forth between Nemesis-dominated and her own impulses; or when Harry tried to get Cat Sith to break free.

We've seen fully-dominated, with Justine.

We don't really know what we saw with Maeve, or Aurora:  were they being "tricked into thinking it was themselves"?  Were they in the "fully-dominated" category?  Or were they actively & knowingly partnering with Nemesis?
--- End quote ---
mmm, and I for some of this look at GP and most of the original talking head moments on possession. Lea for instance acts alot like an addict, and I think Jim mad intentional parallel to how Bilbo behaves in LotR. Drunk with power and trying to quit it.
For Aurora I suspect both,  she'd made a deal but it doesn't explain a lot about the context of it or who actually set the price. I suspect she knew the consequences of her actions but truly thought it would bring a better world by breaking the cycle. She, like Molly does later, made a promise to herself basically. But... she shouldn't have had that bit of power to change still.. It was never Nemesis she thought she was dealing with... Only Elaine and her emotions at being stranded within the fae courts rubbing off on her.  Wizard auras aren't usually strong enough, but what about prolonged exposure to a starborn aura? I think it in itself can elicit change, that Nemesis can take advantage of in creatures specifically designed not to change like the fae.
Cat Sith.. I think Harry opened him to change, and Mab already knew it would. Harry also did something Mab took a possible eternity to do with Lea in minutes.
Justine, is also explained under the lens of possession. WCV's are addicting and she not only basically overdosed but had most of her soul ripped right out with it. It left her vulnerable to possession as would be.
As far as why Justine? Nemesis has a thing for young powerful and mentally unstable(another will weakener) females. My guess is this is her truest possible mirrored form as Nemesis the Name would imply. She has seemingly gone after Lydia, Molly, Justine, Ivy and perhaps im forgetting one or two 🤔 not counting the Sidhe, most of which shes dominated more successfully than say, Sith.

--- Quote ---We know Nemesis is subtle, in the "hard for an observer to detect" ways; but we don't know the details of how it approaches & interacts with hosts.

I don't think we've ever seen someone acting "puzzled" about why they did a thing, except a few times from the inside when Harry was realizing he'd had his brain bent (by Mab, or Lasciel's Shadow).

--- End quote ---
and I'm supplanting that my wall of weird linked together does explain this.
Fate/Soul/luck/active-creation/Wizardy is where Nemesis hangs. If something seems to be a part of yourself, of your own soul or how you've decided to change to be... You wouldn't expect it or think twice huh? We can linearly look at the parallel of how Peabody operated. It nudges you, makes certain thoughts louder. Gets you to make your own choices, Create as you act.(deep parallel here with how magic makes you "more of what you are") eventually that fundemantally changes who you are over time, and as the mirror comes more into focus they have more purchase through it. I don't think she's focusing the mirror just for herself tho, but for her cohorts to have vessels to claim.
Fae, who are Spirit and Body without soul except the bearer, any change in who they are is self apparent quicker with reflection, if caught quickly or not overpowered by change(transmogrify?!?)
Back to Lea tho, and this is the first time plotting this part together.. I account Morgana as being the Arthurian version of Nemesis, and perhaps the most recent physical one.(she's now Mavra I think, but different story)
Leah holds the mantle of the lady of the lake(citation DB summoning intentions) now,  something in some stories attributed it as Morgana.. (click to show/hide)insert possible convergent timelines theory or light/shadow interplay of fae beings to maintain balance being upsetl think between it being Morganna's athema and her holding said mantle was enough to align the mirror for a direct take over attempt. But, like with Sith she didn't take over immediately. It wasn't until she went to confront mab that Mab forced the possession by reasoning with the real Leah still left.

Mira:

--- Quote ---We don't really know what we saw with Maeve, or Aurora:  were they being "tricked into thinking it was themselves"?  Were they in the "fully-dominated" category?  Or were they actively & knowingly partnering with Nemesis?

--- End quote ---

 I agree, especially in the case of Aurora, we don't really know, because we never saw her before she was infected.  Actually though we have guessed that she was, there is nothing at least in the books that confirm that she was.  Is there a WOJ out there that confirms it?  In the case of Maeve it is almost as sketchy, when we first meet her in Mac's bar I think it was in Summer Knight, she appears sane.. Or sane compared to how she acts as the series moves on.  I believe that Nemesis does take advantage of the weakness in the being it infects and is let in by that being. I also don't think there are set rules, while I find it hard to believe that Maeve was tricked, I think it very possible that Justine was.

The_Sibelis:

--- Quote from: Mira on November 19, 2023, 01:07:23 PM --- I agree, especially in the case of Aurora, we don't really know, because we never saw her before she was infected.  Actually though we have guessed that she was, there is nothing at least in the books that confirm that she was.  Is there a WOJ out there that confirms it?
--- End quote ---
yep. Don't ask me to produce it. It's not pertinent to me or mine and I don't feel like the extra work.
--- Quote ---In the case of Maeve it is almost as sketchy, when we first meet her in Mac's bar I think it was in Summer Knight, she appears sane.. Or sane compared to how she acts as the series moves on.
--- End quote ---
based on what we've learned, Maeve had been shirking her duties for centuries. it's not until Nemfection she can actively act against those duties. Before that she's simply being Fae while trying to fight the mantles duty. Coincidentally, just like Aurora she doesn't act "crazy" she acts human. Petty, selfish, jealous outpouring of emotional angst not based on the mantle but on the identity underneath.(another cluebat to be found with Molly. She still has enough of her human left[any will do] Nemesis is a very real threat to her mind)

--- Quote --- I believe that Nemesis does take advantage of the weakness in the being it infects and is let in by that being. I also don't think there are set rules,
--- End quote ---
whew do i have news for you! Might wanna go back and reread and listen to all those interviews and pay particular attention to say, the three man panel describing how to set up magic systems. This is the same kinda thinking behind Jim's too lazy to have plotted it out. That's the exact opposite of the truth of the DF and I can prove it on any world building 👀
 
--- Quote ---While I find it hard to believe that Maeve was tricked, I think it very possible that Justine was.

--- End quote ---
🤷‍♂️  if solving for N, repeatedly gets the same conclusion then N in the equation has a definite answer. And just like say, quantum physics and Einsteins work, if you can use that solution to consistently define things (click to show/hide)neat connection when yggrasil was formed out of the timeline, that's how I've already previously explained the infinite expanding dresdenverse based on choice, with Uriel as Gardener/pruner of dead timelines. Thought is it's own school you knowY'all say you're not sure how Nemesis works or this connects or that's not aligned with DF meta rules and i say, i have invented the theory of relativity and supposite the existence of dark matter.
Now, dark matter might only BE a theory, but it's a theory that holds together through mathematical testing that readily allows physicists to computate real world math that can accurately predict planetary movements.
That's why people actually challenging my theory and not just naysaying it is so important to me. I can and have accurately described events not yet passed that have come to be and can otherwise show direct evidence for said theories coming to direct fruitation. Al la for instance, Harry killing Susan allows for a direct parallel to Nico's actions in killing his daughter so much so that going into the DF under the theory of repeating timeline/paths and shadows you can actually predict Nico's future actions based on nothing else. You can accurately make the prediction Cowl is alt Harry based on Nic being the precise inversed mirror of Harry too, because what's in direct parallel but opposite manifesting ones Denarius as a shadow blanket? Manifesting it as a fiery Phoenix like bird, such as in the wraith deeps. Coincidentally aligned with the theory of mutable time travelers..(which harkens back to a great deal of lore and connections pointed out elsewhere already such as the Phoenix firebird that Mac lets Harry drive in SF)
And ya know.. in all this time nobodies actually tested the theory properly or tried to use it to define their own pieces of the dresdenverse(which is the actual test) and that makes me sad, especially when all i usually hear are negative affirmations. I don't, I can't... as the proverb goes don't let those who can NOT stop those who are actively doing. Cause testing others theory for ourselves is what got both me and Einstein onto the same boat when it comes to peer review of our work(if you know, you know 👀 )

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