The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Is Mab autistic?
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: g33k on November 11, 2023, 08:18:04 PM ---Another thought I had: maybe one of the side-effects of the WQ-Mantle might push the bearer towards autism-like behaviors.
--- End quote ---
I think that more likely the case. The Queen mantles are almost a set of programming, augmenting and in many cases driving or even compelling the host's mental processes. Look at how Molly said she'd have no choice but take the personal debt Harry was incurring getting her help with the decoy construct to fool Ebenezar fully seriously. She meant, literally, no choice.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on November 12, 2023, 03:31:36 AM ---I think that more likely the case. The Queen mantles are almost a set of programming, augmenting and in many cases driving or even compelling the host's mental processes. Look at how Molly said she'd have no choice but take the personal debt Harry was incurring getting her help with the decoy construct to fool Ebenezar fully seriously. She meant, literally, no choice.
--- End quote ---
That's why I think it is important to also study Lea's behavior as a control.. Remember it was the debt deal that sixteen year old Harry made with Lea that got him stuck where he is now eventually as Winter Knight. I don't think the debt thing has anything to do with the Queen or Lady's mantle, it is more of a Fae thing.
g33k:
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on November 11, 2023, 11:36:54 PM --- it seems your directly and intentionally taking the viewpoint that there is inherently something wrong with autistic people?
Cease. This. Rudeness. At once.
--- End quote ---
That was not my intention; please accept my apology.
Note that I separated the conceptual elements -- different paragraphs.
What I meant by the "worst" of their mantles' impulses is the elements that might push them to be the most unlike their own native selves. Bob said the Ladymantle would change a mortal within a few years... "welcome to the new Maeve, same as the old Maeve." I could have said "strongest" or "most dramatic" or etc; but given the idea that the Mantles may change people, I stand by the use of "worst" -- in the sense of stripping away their self and/or free will. So far as I have seen, the WK-Mantle doesn't seem to push Harry towards any behaviors or thought-patterns I'd have called "autistic," nor the Ladymantle push Molly that way (but we haven't seen nearly as much of Lady Molly; so I don't feel we know).
Mab, OTOH... well, see the OP.
But Mab has been subjected to her Mantle's impulses for so long, we can't really know how much is her (vs. the WQ-Mantle). Is it the Mantle, or Mab? Or was Mab given the Mantle because she already inclined that way; that mortal-Mab was already WQ-like?
And is it "something like" autism, what I'm seeing in Mab? I do feel there's a strong case to be made that it's so.
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote ---What I meant by the "worst" of their mantles' impulses is the elements that might push them to be the most unlike their own native selves. Bob said the Ladymantle would change a mortal within a few years... "welcome to the new Maeve, same as the old Maeve.
And is it "something like" autism, what I'm seeing in Mab? I do feel there's a strong case to be made that it's so.
--- End quote ---
apologies accepted.
And I'll split the difference for you and why it works that way probably.
The WK mantle makes the subconscious louder. The Shadow as described by Yung. It forces the wearer to incorporate his shadow into his conscious mindset or be overwhelmed by it.
This is by and large to make it easier to resist Nemesis, who specifically forms herself to that subconscious part and tries to trick you into thinking it's yourself.
The ladies and queens less so. Haven't quite figured out the ladies mantles as completely except to surmise the true purpose of the lady and knight is... Slightly more than copulation. Something that requires a magic they're denied as fae. Same thing that made Bonnie.
The queens don't have the same issue as the knights because they're each others shadows. Mab is the dark shadow of Titania given purpose and power in reality to deny Nemesis access to the shadow of either. It's why their balance is so important. Anything imbalanced gives Nemesis wiggle room.(off topic but I think the reason the Eldest mantles are all suspect to nfection is by design, they are the broken down aspects of the 9 part soul, the Greek muses. Eldest Gruff, with his ability to make tragedy make sense to Titania is a shoe in for the muse of tragedy, and if my theory he's in fact" ole billy goat Shakespeare" is true that'd make a lot of sense.)well, I forgot my original thread but
This differs entirely from autism, which is by and large a problem of the manifestation of consciousness, which is something that is more a sum of its parts. Imagine a holographic projector projecting the death star. The projector is the brain and the projection is the consciousness. Now imagine the projector is wired wrong. It still projects the death star, but everything projected is out of place. The projection still has all the functionality of the death star, big it doesn't look the same. It doesn't connect the same way so it's processing to get to the same outcomes is entirely different.
Consciousness is a relatively new evolution not entirely understood. I think personally autists are simply a variant of that evolution. Instead of following the Zen path of being Woke in the moment(which leads to overload) they must instead learn to program their own subroutines(which is where there is some overlap with how the mantles work)so it matters not if they're there in the moment. The subconscious Shadow has already been mastered and incorporated to do your bidding and to kick the red alert up to the conscious mind when it has an error code.
As far as if Mab was born autistic.. I'd look to Molly for the answer, who's thoughts work almost the same already. The issue is defining what or why. Autists tend to have an imbalance in the five kinds of intellect but it's usually the males who have social issues and females with shall we say 'ditzy' effects usually played off under other stereotypes like cheerleader or Blondy.
Molly though highly empathic doesn't hold for most usual indicators. An that by itself isn't one, because it's proven to be a trauma response. Autists who grow up in nice safe places of support like Michael's house don't tend to overdevelop their intuitive ability as a defensive measure to survive the presence of evil.
*Addendum. To address why the new lady will be the same as the old lady, ECT. Has to do with the mantles holding memory/being empowered by the wearer while subsuming them. You can't change the mantles without throwing yourself into them, your soul fire. It's why Molly, who's made choices as Molly that have directly effected the mantle has lost so much of herself already. There's wiggle room. But the ladies and the queens are the ghostly identities, the mantles of other being. You can only wear a mask for so long before you become it. Note, Harry has never had this issue, the mantle was refashioned through the table, cleansing it, specifically so she could remold it to Harry himself.
**Very very old theory.. but winter is the subconscious, summer the super ego, the eldest the separate parts of the soul/9 muses of the personal soul, ect.
KurtinStGeorge:
Jim just answered a question about the Jade Court which probably applies to Mab. Jim said that members of Jade Court behave in a manner that might appear to be autistic, but not exactly. The reason it may apply to Mab is Jim said it's just the way that creatures who are functionally immortal keep themselves sane. They wrap themselves in ritual, performing specific behaviors. I think in the Jade Court's case this behavior is exacerbated by the fact that their particular culture is so insular to begin with.
This might explain why Mab told Harry that he should kill Molly if Mab died during the events in Battle Ground. Molly doesn't perform the kind of behaviors that Mab has become accustomed to doing to function as an immortal. However, it's possible that Mab is wrong, that Molly has just found a different way to adjust to the pressure of being immortal. I suppose that is a question for a different thread and probably one that cannot be answered until sometime in the future.
Here's a link to the exact quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRcj4gvGXKI
The question starts at about 32:30 into the talk
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