The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Infected by Nemesis. What do know about how and when. What we don't know.
Mira:
--- Quote ---is pretty much directly contradicted by the book.
--- End quote ---
Which book are you referring to? Not trying to be snarky, but like to read context. What I am talking about is when we first meet Lea, before she got the knife at the party. She gives a pretty good impression of someone who desired more power.
--- Quote ---well it should be. It's immediately obvious to me you have it backwards tho. The Adversary is specifically called such by the fae(and indeed when talking about others "opposites" they have specifically referenced "their adversary" in the heaven n hell balance instead of An Adversary) just as the courts are tasked with protecting reality their adversary is tasked with breaking it, all of it. It is The End that nobody is safe from.
--- End quote ---
No, they call Nemesis, the adversary, because it is safer to do so.
page 326 Cold Days
--- Quote ---"Quite so," said Mother Summer. "And if you do heed Mab's command?'
"Maeve's mantle gets passed on to someone else," I said. "And if... the adversary? Can I say that safely?"
Mother Summer smiled. "That's why we use that word rather than a name, Sir Knight. Yes."
--- End quote ---
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote ---Which book are you referring to? Not trying to be snarky, but like to read context.
--- End quote ---
oop, my fault, my mind slipped over the imo part and read it as you doubted lea wanted more power and they realized when she went at mab. That did happen. 🤔 which part did you doubt?
I'm well aware of the Adversary and why it's called such, that statement doesn't directly parry mine tho. I like to point out The Adversary can be called such(and 'the' is indeed capitalized by them when doing so iirc) because that is its title. Nemesis is a name, one of its names that draws it's attention.
They also go out of their way when speaking of others specific opposites, "their adversary" instead often without capitalizing. Now forgive me my old English teachers for this crap explanation but..The proper usage(because a fae would) for a station that denotes centrality or focus from their perspective would be a personal or broad The. Nemesis is not an adversary, or "our" adversary when speaking personally or within the fae ranks of which Harry is a part of. It's The Adversary.
Mira:
--- Quote ---They also go out of their way when speaking of others specific opposites, "their adversary" instead often without capitalizing. Now forgive me my old English teachers for this crap explanation but..The proper usage(because a fae would) for a station that denotes centrality or focus from their perspective would be a personal or broad The. Nemesis is not an adversary, or "our" adversary when speaking personally or within the fae ranks of which Harry is a part of. It's The Adversary.
--- End quote ---
Blame Jim, he wrote it, not me, and yes, I know how to use punctuation... Check out page 326 of Cold Days, Harry's conversation with Mother Summer. Adversary is not capitalized nor is adversary used as a general term. Harry and Mother Summer were speaking about Nemesis, but going Voldemort about it, also using no capitalization.
page 326 Cold Days
--- Quote ---"Quite so," said Mother Summer. "And if you do heed Mab's command?'
"Maeve's mantle gets passed on to someone else," I said. "And if... the adversary? Can I say that safely?"
Mother Summer smiled. "That's why we use that word rather than a name, Sir Knight. Yes."
--- End quote ---
Next paragraph, little doubt what is being referred to given the book's storyline, again page 326 Cold Days
--- Quote ---"If the adversary has taken Mab," I said, "then it gets to choose an agent to take the Winter Lady's mantle. Two-thirds of the Winter Court will be under it's influence."
--- End quote ---
The_Sibelis:
That's Harry talking, not one of the fae who knows. Check anytime the fae say it, as my point was about their grammar/syntax. Harry can still lie. And of course our ignorant little narrator doesn't have the same insight the sidhe have, he's often just wrong too.
Mira:
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on November 01, 2023, 01:52:10 PM ---That's Harry talking, not one of the fae who knows. Check anytime the fae say it, as my point was about their grammar/syntax. Harry can still lie. And of course our ignorant little narrator doesn't have the same insight the sidhe have, he's often just wrong too.
--- End quote ---
However Mother Summer answers;
--- Quote --- "That's why we use that word rather than a name, Sir Knight. Yes."
--- End quote ---
Splitting hairs aren't you? Or trying to at any rate, whether or not Harry is saying it,makes no difference in this case. In general I'd not argue with what you are saying, except in this case context is important.. As chapter 33 of Cold Days opens Mother Summer is taking Harry by the hand to the Outer Gates on page 225. First thing out of the gate Mother Summer asks Harry what he thinks will happen if he disobeys Mab's command? We know what her command was, to kill Maeve. Why? Because she is infected with Nemesis beyond curing. Harry says she'd get pissed if she doesn't and he could end up like Lloyd Slate. The Mother asks, "if she isn't?" I presume Mother Summer means if Maeve isn't infected and he kills Mab instead because she is the one infected.
Then Harry says that Maeve will end up with Mab's mantel. Mother Summer asks him if that would go well for him... Harry doesn't think so and mentions someone who likes to pull the wings off of flies. "Well, crap," were Harry's words, and Mother Summer agrees.. Then the conversation proceeds about "the adversary," Remember at this point Harry isn't sure that it isn't Mab who is infected, after all he did see her on ice back in Proven Guilty along with obviously infected Lea. This is one of the main topics of the whole book, Mab commanding Harry to kill Maeve because she is infected. Harry not sure what to do because he isn't sure it isn't Mab who is infected..
Now comes a bit of conversation that is a little choppy so can be confusing unless you follow it closely. Page 326
--- Quote ---"Well, crap," I said.
"Quite so," said Mother Summer."And if you do heed Mab's command?'
--- End quote ---
Mother Summer just asked what Harry would think would happen if he killed Maeve as commanded?
Then the line gets a little confusing because Harry stops his sentence mid-thought to ask Mother Summer if he can say the adversary safely.
--- Quote ---"Maeve's mantle gets passed on to someone else," I said. "And if. . . the adversary? Can I say that safely?"
--- End quote ---
So if Maeve is infected, he kills her and someone else becomes Lady.. However if he listens to Maeve that it is Mab who is infected, but she isn't, and kills her.. Infected Maeve becomes Queen. However his thought is interrupted, "..." because he asked Mother Summer if he can use the term adversary safely?
She answers;
--- Quote ---Mother Summer smiled. "That's why we use that word rather than a name Sir Knight."
--- End quote ---
Then in the next line, Harry has realized what would happen if an infected Maeve were to take over Mab's mantel.. He isn't talking about a general adversary in this sentence, and the context of the two page conversation between him and Mother Summer is not about a general adversary or enemy, it is about him being commanded by Mab to kill Maeve, and Harry's indecision because the thought crossed his mind that it could be Mab who is infected.. Both decisions have consequences one a little more serious than the other..
So Harry thinks it through.. What happens if he decides that Mab is the infected one and kills her and Maeve takes over the mantle of Queen? In other words, Maeve/the adversary, gets the Queen's mantle.
--- Quote ---"If the adversary has taken Mab," I said, "then it gets to choose an agent to take the Winter Lady's mantle. Two thirds of the Winter Court will be under it's influence."
--- End quote ---
It is pretty clear I think that in this case, "the adversary" is Nemesis and not some other general foe. Why Jim chose not to capitalize it? You will have to ask him, or the Beta readers, they are the ones I think, that correct these kinds of errors if they catch them.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version