The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Ruby Waystone ...
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 02, 2023, 05:51:49 PM ---... Another way of looking at it, that is another reason why they wanted so badly to infect the inner circle of either Court, how many outside of the Queens actually know ALLthe Ways?...
--- End quote ---
I don't even think the Queens know literally "ALL" the Ways!
I expect Mab & Titania know all the Ways in Winter & Summer (respectively); but only moderately-well within the opposite demesne; and quite variably in the non-faerie portions of the Nevernever, with some regions better-known, and some areas lesser.
I expect, for example, that the Mothers know more Ways than the Queens know. I bet the Erlking knows more ways -- outside those of Summer and Winter -- than either of the Queens know: such is the way of the Huntsman, in Wild parts of Faerie and non-Fae parts of the Nevernever.
--- Quote from: Mira on October 02, 2023, 05:51:49 PM ---Do we have that information yet? ... Even if there are no Ways in or out of the Outer Gates..
--- End quote ---
It seems like an awfully-safe bet that there are no Ways beyond the Outer Gates. If they could bypass the Gates that easily, why would the Outsiders be besieging them, and Winter (and her conscripts defending them)? As I recall it, MOST of Winter is defending the Gates; only a tiny fraction is in the Mortal realm & nearby Nevernever, being "Wintery" (and balancing Summer).
If they could bypass it, then all manner of Outsiders would be roaming the Nevernever, willy-nilly. But that's not what we see.
--- Quote from: Mira on October 02, 2023, 05:51:49 PM --- ... Outsiders can be summoned by mortals, right? Mortals can be tricked or corrupted into performing that act, right? So theoretically, an Outsider can be summoned, find a Way into the Nevernever. Especially an area not well controlled by either Court and very dangerous to begin with.
--- End quote ---
This is the crux of my argument, yes. We know that Papa Raith had (and used) Outsider-summoning magic; so did the Rampires. So do various other demi-mortals; plus of course mortal wizards (note that even low-powered sorceror-types can use it, q.v. the "coven of porn sorceresses" (which made Molly WTF and think Harry was making it up)).
WoJ says you don't really need *any* magical talent to perform certain "vending machine" rituals -- perform the ritual, get the "prize."
So getting an Outsider past the Outer Gates and into the mortal world isn't all that hard; just rare, as the "easy" rituals are hard to find, and doing it with just skill & power takes a lot of both.
We know the Outsiders can operate in the Nevernever, because they were with the Ramps attacking the White Council party retreating through the Nevernever (as saved by Michael).
So, why don't these Outsiders take a Way onto Demonreach, if such exists?
I can -- kinda-sorta -- see CT's theory, here: because the Way connects to Mab's icegarden, atop Arctis Tor's tower; that might indeed be enough to keep out Outsiders.
But I only "kinda-sorta" that as a full explanation... it's a moderately-large island, and surely there's a Way to be opened from MANY places on the island! Do you open the same Way when you're
* standing on wet, lake-splashed pebbles
* in a thicket of trees
* the rough staircase
* inside the Circle atop the island
* inside the cottage thereSurely not!
(and I'll call you Shirley if I want to!)
But if opening each of those go to multiple places... where do they each go?
SerScot:
Given what Demonreach contains and keeping it contained being such a big deal…
Why way Demonreach…. ever… “wardenless”?
g33k:
--- Quote from: SerScot on October 28, 2023, 12:13:56 AM --- Given what Demonreach contains and keeping it contained being such a big deal…
Why way Demonreach…. ever… “wardenless”?
--- End quote ---
IIRC, WoJ suggests that:
(a) people who understand the Island & the job of Warden mostly don't WANT the job.
(b) if someone actually does want the job, most of the Council will take that as prima facie evidence they're an evil wizard making a power-grab.
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on October 28, 2023, 02:34:16 AM ---IIRC, WoJ suggests that:
(a) people who understand the Island & the job of Warden mostly don't WANT the job.
(b) if someone actually does want the job, most of the Council will take that as prima facie evidence they're an evil wizard making a power-grab.
--- End quote ---
Then we have (c), someone like Harry that does a ritual out of desperation having no clue that there are consequences beyond those he intended when he did it. The one person who neither wanted the job or is into a power grab. However the Council doesn't know that, so they assume (b).
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 28, 2023, 11:20:59 AM ---Then we have (c), someone like Harry that does a ritual out of desperation having no clue that there are consequences beyond those he intended when he did it. The one person who neither wanted the job or is into a power grab. However the Council doesn't know that, so they assume (b).
--- End quote ---
I think Jim has said that a minority of the Council thinks it's "proof of evil" but most of them are bemusedly going, "wait... was he just clueless and stupid? And lucky? That looks an awful lot like lucky and clueless. And stupid. I think it was ... just lucky and stupid! And clueless!"
(of the members who are, themselves, clued-in to the island; which AIUI most of the Council actually are not)
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