Author Topic: The Darkhallow  (Read 2593 times)

Offline Yuillegan

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The Darkhallow
« on: April 02, 2023, 01:18:22 AM »
I think the Darkhallow has been overlooked in the series for the significance of it's event, it's design, it's intended purpose and potential.

Upon re-reading Dead Beat for the hundreth time, it really struck me the power of the Darkhallow.

From the exchange with Queen Mab:
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Know this, mortal: Should Kemmler's heirs acquire the knowledge bound within the Word, they will be in a position to gather up such power as the world has not seen in many thousands of years."
 "What? How?"
 "Kemmler was"—Mab's eyes grew distant, as if in memory— "a madman. A monster. But brilliant. He learned how to bind to his will not only dead flesh, but shades—to rend them asunder and devour them to feed his own power. It was the secret of the strength that allowed him to defy all the White Council together."
 I added two and two and got four. "The heirs want to call up the ancient spirits," I breathed. "And then devour them for power."
 Mab's deep-green eyes almost seemed to glow with intensity. "Kemmler himself attempted it, but the Council struck him down before he could finish."
 I swallowed. "What happens if one of his heirs is able to do it?"
 "The heir would gain power such as has not been wielded by mortal hands in the memory of your race," Mab said.
 "The Darkhallow," I said. I rubbed at my eyes. "That's what it is. A ritual, tomorrow night. Halloween. They all want to be the one to make themselves into a junior-league god."


So we learn what the Darkhallow is - a ritual of ascension. And yet, also not. Harry says it's more a spell than a rite - the difference I seem to remember is where the power comes from. The destruction and consuming of spirits by the performer imbues them with the power of a "junior-league" god, as Dresden says. Mab says that kind of power hasn't been wielded by mortal hands in the memory of the human race. At face value, that could be 10-100 thousand years. But I think Dresden only later realises that he might have underestimated how much power was in play.

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Cowl kept on chanting, and I saw his body arch with tension. Over the next minute or so, he actually, physically rose above the ground, until his boots were three or four inches in the air. His voice had become part of the wild storm, part of the dark energy, and it rolled and boomed and echoed all around us. I began to understand the kind of power we were dealing with. It was power as deep as an ocean, and as broad as the sky. It was dark and lethal and horrible and beautiful, and Cowl was about to take it all in. The strength it would give him would not make him a match for the entire White Council. It would put him in a league so far beyond them that their strength would mean virtually nothing.

It was power enough to change the world. To reshape it after one's own liking.

So I think we can see it dawns on Harry that should Cowl succeed here, the world will change. There will be a new order to things, and Cowl, or rather the thing that Cowl would have become, would be in charge.

Even Corpsetaker said something about granting Harry autonomy and a principality of his choice, effectively making Harry a lord or king under him. Probably of a good portion of the USA, maybe all of it.

That's the kind of world-shaping power in play.

What's curious is what the other supernatural nations would have done. We know that Cowl (or whoever had succeeded, but probably Cowl) would have wiped out the Senior Council and effectively destroyed the White Council while the Red Court would have cleaned up the dregs. Without the White Council, humanity would have been less protected and more open and brazen attacks would have occurred. The smaller Accords nations certainly would have gone to ground, or served or been wiped out. Vadderung and Ferrovax likely would have retreated unless forced to fight, and I suspect they might have waited for a more certain victory. The Vamps and others likely would have served (or at least allied) with this new entity, which we must assume is much stronger than the Lords of the Outer Night (Red King inclusive), and Drakul etc. The Jade Court would just have waited things out I imagine, given that's all they apparently do...I also can't see the Faeries just lying down. But they might have stayed back. This being would have been beyond Mab and Titania, per WOJ. Probably not beyond the Mothers but it's hard to say how close. But the Mother's don't do direct fights like that - although curiously given the conversation with Kumori (and the theory that one of Mother Winter's aspects is that of Death), one might assume Cowl (as a god) would have attempted to kill Mother Winter in order to "end death" as Kumori puts it. Can't imagine Mab would have take that lying down. Then again, Cowl seems to work with Outsiders so they might have given him the opening he would have needed.

We also know that Ethniu was ready to go with an army and her superweapon and nigh-invulnerability. We know that The Outsiders had a serious assault or two ready to go, led by He Who Walks Before. He Who Walks Beside also clearly has many interweaving goals, which the Darkhallow might be linked to. We know that Nicodemus had several plans on the go, some of which involved stealing high-value supernatural relics, and corrupting powerful people including the Archive. Not to mention Drakul clearly also has some similar operations to Nicodemus going on. My guess is Nicodemus, Drakul etc. would have gone to ground. Maybe paid their respects eventually whilst working away at their larger goals. I doubt they care who rules - I think their plans are larger and far worse than ruling the world.

Ethniu likely would have challenged any new Power. I have speculated before on who might win that and it's quite hard to judge. I can't see Cowl and Ethniu working together (unless they already had been...which is possible, if not likely). But would they have stayed allies? In theory Ethniu all armored up and with the Eye of Balor should be stronger. But the way it's worded in Dead Beat makes you think that Cowl would have been stronger. A dark god of necromancy, likely. Easily able to make his own army I think. I suspect he would have had the power to pierce through the armor, given the requirement to get through Titanic Bronze is either enough power, or power from the right place (infernal or celestial). I don't see how he would counter the Eye, but Cowl is very clever and might have planned for such a thing. More likely he would have avoided a straight fight if possible and tried to work with her to suppress the mortals.

Which then gives us the mortal issue. Would Cowl have been strong enough outright to dominate all mortal opposition? Armies of the dead might suggest that, in a zombie apocalypse type way. One only has to watch a few zombie movies or tv shows to see how quickly civilisation would crumble - although mostly infection seems more dangerous than merely being summoned. Not sure how humans would deal with spectres like the Corpsetaker summoned. But humans do have other organisations that protect them like the Librum Bellum - the MIB. One expects they wouldn't have just rolled over, and might even have strategies for just such an event. Not to mention, we have seen that Alfred can probably handle even very powerful entities if he's close enough (although he still needs the Warden to help bind them). And that's just one thing - who knows how many other such countermeasures exist.

Yet Dresden, and the Wardens, the Necromancers and even Fae all seemed very convinced that should a dark god emerge, that was it for civilisation. This suggests it would be a far worse event than most, a being perhaps far stronger than Ethniu. Which might mean such a creature might be a lot harder to stop. And maybe not such a junior-league god, as Dresden thinks.

One wonders how the Outsiders would have dealt with it too. My guess is that just like with Ethniu, Cowl succeeding at the Darkhallow was merely an opportunity for the Outsiders to exploit. Creating the right kind of conditions for their version of the apocalypse. In the end, I think the Outsiders are ultimately the biggest threat to everything given they torture and destroy and consume universes, and want to do that to the entire multiverse of Creation. Or so it seems.

But it was still a really big event, should it have occcured. And I highly doubt that Cowl won't attempt another Darkhallow (although one thinks he might want to pick another city, just logically). Even the name Darkhallow (Dark-holy) gives you an idea of how big an event it was. Something curious we have seen (only briefly) is the power of holiness, or unholiness as the case may be. The Sleeper managed to consecrate the ground of it's Church. Normally, this is reserved for the White God and other major religions (I assume). Presumably, each of the varying religions in their era had this power too (Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Japanese, Sumerian, Chinese, Irish, etc) but due to current circumstances do not have this power any more. Would Cowl have had this power? Could he have consecrated his own special areas?

Food for thought.

In any case, do you think we will see another Darkhallow attempt? By Cowl or some other? Even Kemmler (should he somehow return, assuming he hasn't already)? If it occurs again, would the BAT kick off?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2023, 01:25:24 AM by Yuillegan »

Offline Mira

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2023, 10:23:31 AM »
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In any case, do you think we will see another Darkhallow attempt? By Cowl or some other? Even Kemmler (should he somehow return, assuming he hasn't already)? If it occurs again, would the BAT kick off?

  Let's not forget that Darkhallow is one of the things that runs through desperate Harry's mind along with trying to call back Lasciel's coin as worst, worser, and least worse option of becoming Winter Knight as he laid on his broken back in his office in Changes, to save little Maggie.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2023, 12:21:34 PM by Mira »

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2023, 11:15:27 AM »
I think that The Darkhallow strength is dependent upon the circumstances, Halloween is a peak time to perform it where you can draw in the most power. Do it any other time it will give you a power up but not to God level, more in the Denarian/Winter Knight level. There may be other factors which affect its power, such as the presence of The Erl King in the mortal world.

Kemmler might have already done such a ‘weak’ Darkhallow, he was so much stronger than the average wizard, but unable to achieve the circumstances for a full Darkhallow during his lifetimes. The Erl King was in the 19th C Wildfae, by Dresden’s time he’s sworn fealty to Mab. This may have been to protect him from being summoned by Kemmler and Nameless - certainly when the latter was paperclipped into Winter.

Offline Mira

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2023, 12:24:05 PM »
I think that The Darkhallow strength is dependent upon the circumstances, Halloween is a peak time to perform it where you can draw in the most power. Do it any other time it will give you a power up but not to God level, more in the Denarian/Winter Knight level. There may be other factors which affect its power, such as the presence of The Erl King in the mortal world.

Kemmler might have already done such a ‘weak’ Darkhallow, he was so much stronger than the average wizard, but unable to achieve the circumstances for a full Darkhallow during his lifetimes. The Erl King was in the 19th C Wildfae, by Dresden’s time he’s sworn fealty to Mab. This may have been to protect him from being summoned by Kemmler and Nameless - certainly when the latter was paperclipped into Winter.

Darkhallow might be something that Harry is forced to go to in the BAT when things really hit the fan.  If he is still Winter Knight at that time as well as being a star born with a little soul fire mixed in for good measure, he will have the juice to do it.

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2023, 01:30:03 PM »
It’s Checkov’s Darkhallow

It might require a Starborn for peak effect, which is why Drakul wanted it BUT Harry would only use it if it didn’t harm innocents. Ripping the Lifeforce from say a Fomor Army in achieving it would help ESPECIALLY if he has the Blackstaff to shield from the harmful effects and the Spear to maximise success. We have literally seen Eb rip the life from a hundred Red Court flunkies in the same way the Darkhallow would.

Any innocents could hide behind the Placard THAT would shield them from the Darkhallow as would the Carpenters House.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2023, 08:45:16 PM »
  Let's not forget that Darkhallow is one of the things that runs through desperate Harry's mind along with trying to call back Lasciel's coin as worst, worser, and least worse option of becoming Winter Knight as he laid on his broken back in his office in Changes, to save little Maggie.
True, but I think given Harry took the Winter Knight option - which hardly seems comparable tbh - Jim has written that story line out for now. Which isn't too say there isn't a Harry who didn't end up performing a mini-darkhallow (given the proper one needed to be on Halloween).

I think that The Darkhallow strength is dependent upon the circumstances, Halloween is a peak time to perform it where you can draw in the most power. Do it any other time it will give you a power up but not to God level, more in the Denarian/Winter Knight level. There may be other factors which affect its power, such as the presence of The Erl King in the mortal world.

Kemmler might have already done such a ‘weak’ Darkhallow, he was so much stronger than the average wizard, but unable to achieve the circumstances for a full Darkhallow during his lifetimes. The Erl King was in the 19th C Wildfae, by Dresden’s time he’s sworn fealty to Mab. This may have been to protect him from being summoned by Kemmler and Nameless - certainly when the latter was paperclipped into Winter.
Very true, the amount of available energy is entirely circumstantial, not to mention that in order to go from mortal to immortal, the spell/rite must be performed on Halloween. Otherwise the change in state from mortal to immortal cannot occur.

Then there is the quality of the spirits. Older spirits carry more metaphysical power than those more recently deceased - hence partially why they used Native American spirits (all the more grotesque I imagine to the local Native people). Spirits also are drawn to things of the material world (places, objects etc.). So you also need a certain amount of objects the spirits would be drawn to (hence why Corpsetaker posed as a historian on an ancient Native American exhibition, and why it was also performed at a museum). As you also point out, the Erlking is somewhat crucial as you need his power to weaken the barrier between the Nevernever and the real world further and for him to summon even older spirits (hunters, specifically). Finally, you need to create a certain amount of metaphysical turbulence between the real world and the Nevernever, which has been occurring for a few years before the Darkhallow was attempted in Chicago. So there is a big difference between a Darkhallow like the one that was attempted in Dead Beat and just trying it out anywhere, anytime.

In a way, Chicago is primed for another Darkhallow. All the recent death and destruction, all the turbulence. Just happens that one very angry, increasingly powerful Wizard watches over the place (who now has soloed a Titan). Not to mention all the other protectors the city has...like Marcone.

If I were Cowl, I would pick a much, much older city with far more violence in it's history than Chicago. Like London or Rome or Cairo, or maybe not even a capital. Pick a less protected city than Chicago too, somewhere the White Council holds less sway - so probably not Europe. Cairo or Luxor seem like good options. Maybe Grozny in Russia or Palmyra in Syria, or even Baghdad in Iraq.

Then you create another big distraction for the White Council and it's allies - another Ethniu-like situation, another massive Outsider assault on the Gates, another critical war going on. While everyone is distracted, you perform the Darkhallow. You also at this point would have gathered enough relics, enough historical objects for the spirits, created enough spiritual turbulence for the past few years, and summon the Erlking or another psychopomp-like being (surely there are a few). But that's just me.

I think the Erlking was far stronger in Dead Beat than he is later - Jim was still sorting out relative power levels. Hell, the Erlking uses telepathy to communicate the first time!

Curiously, Harry always assumed Mavra wanted the Word of Kemmler for herself to become a god, or whatever. But now we know she works for Drakul and is likely his most loyal servant. Perhaps it is Drakul who wishes to become a god (or something closer to what he was), again. Terrifying food for thought.

Also, CT, why would Nameless be involved in all this? I don't remember his connection to Dead Beat.

It’s Checkov’s Darkhallow

It might require a Starborn for peak effect, which is why Drakul wanted it BUT Harry would only use it if it didn’t harm innocents. Ripping the Lifeforce from say a Fomor Army in achieving it would help ESPECIALLY if he has the Blackstaff to shield from the harmful effects and the Spear to maximise success. We have literally seen Eb rip the life from a hundred Red Court flunkies in the same way the Darkhallow would.

Any innocents could hide behind the Placard THAT would shield them from the Darkhallow as would the Carpenters House.
I don't think it works that way. It uses spirits, not life energy, to power to ritual. The vacuum of all that magic being eaten is what steals life force to bring back balance. So I don't think you could use it to "eat" the Fomor army like that.

Also, there are a lot of innocents - more than could fit in Mac's Bar and Michael's house. Think a few million.

Offline LostInTime

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2023, 07:46:37 AM »
Harry, with the blackstaff, performing the Darkhallow on Demonreach on Halloween.
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Offline Mira

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2023, 11:46:13 AM »
Quote
True, but I think given Harry took the Winter Knight option - which hardly seems comparable tbh - Jim has written that story line out for now. Which isn't too say there isn't a Harry who didn't end up performing a mini-darkhallow (given the proper one needed to be on Halloween).

 True, he took what he saw as the least bad of three very bad options, his only options.  However that was choice, not lack of skill or knowledge of how to do it.  As you know very well, Jim doesn't give his characters those options unless they may have to use it at some point.  Interesting don't you think, when Cowl got the "Word" from Kemmler's book, Harry had also read and gotten it?  Jim could have just as easily had Harry simply stopping Cowl, which he could have done without him ever understanding how to work it himself. Jim put that option in Harry's back pocket for a reason, it could be that in the end the only way to stop the final battle against the Outside is for Harry to use the final option, giving himself the godlike powers needed to end it.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2023, 03:44:04 PM by Mira »

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2023, 07:50:53 PM »
On another thread I have posited that the Erl King is the son of the Gorgon Euryale and Poseidon, (brother of Hades) the giant hunter Orion.

That would explain why it requires the presence of the Erl King in the mortal world to trigger a full Darkhallow.

Offline vincentric

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2023, 04:10:10 PM »
I used to think there's no way Harry could use the Darkhallow but I finally came up with a scenario where it's not only possible but useful.

The Darkhallow sucks in all the life around it as a side effect of apotheosis. Imagine Harry using it on Halloween on Demonreach (using Alfred as his drummer) and having Alfred loose all the sleepers an instant before the finish. Harry gets god-level power and the sleepers are all killed irrevocably. (cuz Halloween). It stops any escapee problem and uber-Harry can then head over to the Gates and turn the tide there.

Offline g33k

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2023, 04:44:26 PM »
I used to think there's no way Harry could use the Darkhallow but I finally came up with a scenario where it's not only possible but useful.

The Darkhallow sucks in all the life around it as a side effect of apotheosis. Imagine Harry using it on Halloween on Demonreach (using Alfred as his drummer) and having Alfred loose all the sleepers an instant before the finish. Harry gets god-level power and the sleepers are all killed irrevocably. (cuz Halloween). It stops any escapee problem and uber-Harry can then head over to the Gates and turn the tide there.

I don't think most of the creatures in the Well are subject to a Darkhallow ritual.

Probably some of them are, though: I suspect the Naagloshi of being susceptible (for example).

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2023, 05:40:40 PM »
You are what you eat, Harry would need to use the Blackstaff.

Otherwise those Eldritch horrors go right through you. And they don’t taste like chicken.

The prisoners in stasis would be protected from the Darkhallow, however Harry can selectively release them or part of them at will, actually subject to his will. He could set them on the Outsiders and eat the winner.

Offline vincentric

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2023, 03:28:56 AM »
I don't think most of the creatures in the Well are subject to a Darkhallow ritual.

Probably some of them are, though: I suspect the Naagloshi of being susceptible (for example).

Correct, the Darkhallow would use ghosts like the one Cowl tried. The Sleepers would be killed because they'd get sucked in in the aftermath and it's Halloween so the immortals can be killed then.

Offline vincentric

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2023, 03:32:04 AM »
You are what you eat, Harry would need to use the Blackstaff.

Otherwise those Eldritch horrors go right through you. And they don’t taste like chicken.

The prisoners in stasis would be protected from the Darkhallow, however Harry can selectively release them or part of them at will, actually subject to his will. He could set them on the Outsiders and eat the winner.

Again, the Darkhallow summons ghosts and that's what the user consumes. The Sleepers die in the aftermath where they are sucked into the vacuum caused by it.

Offline g33k

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Re: The Darkhallow
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2023, 03:45:10 AM »
Correct, the Darkhallow would use ghosts like the one Cowl tried. The Sleepers would be killed because they'd get sucked in in the aftermath and it's Halloween so the immortals can be killed then.
I don't think most of them would be subject to "psychic vacuum" of the ghosts being eaten.
Mortals are relatively-weak, with little in the way of defenses; not so the entities in the Well.