The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What is a “Destroyer”?
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on December 09, 2022, 09:44:35 PM ---It could be a reference to Shiva or the Thor in Marvel. It's at least in the realm of the possible that we seen glances of him at various times. In particular when the Curse in triggered in Changes and Harry looses two minutes. Also during his berserk rages such as when Murphy is killed and he uses lightning.
--- End quote ---
Still too simple, yeah a powerful wizard having an emotional violent reaction to his beloved being senselessly killed before his eyes can do a lot of damage.... You might even call him a destroyer, but is he? He can destroy, true, but I think your example is a poor one because of the context. To be a true destroyer in my opinion, it takes planning.. It is more like damage verses collateral damage, a destroyer will plan to flatten that hospital, verses someone trying to take out a missile site and a hospital is accidentally destroyed on the process.. Either way the hospital is screwed, but in the first case it was done deliberately by a destroyer, and the other was done accidentally by some capable of destroying, but isn't a destroyer.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on December 10, 2022, 03:16:11 PM --- Still too simple, yeah a powerful wizard having an emotional violent reaction to his beloved being senselessly killed before his eyes can do a lot of damage.... You might even call him a destroyer, but is he? He can destroy, true, but I think your example is a poor one because of the context. To be a true destroyer in my opinion, it takes planning.. It is more like damage verses collateral damage, a destroyer will plan to flatten that hospital, verses someone trying to take out a missile site and a hospital is accidentally destroyed on the process.. Either way the hospital is screwed, but in the first case it was done deliberately by a destroyer, and the other was done accidentally by some capable of destroying, but isn't a destroyer.
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I think a Destroyer has to be a Starborn.
With the right impetus, any wizard in the grip of rage & despair might Open the Outer Gates.
A Starborn... who knows?
Maybe they can open the Outer Gates such that nobody can close them again, or summon all the Walkers at once, or summon ranks above even the Wakers, or...?
We don't know much about the Starborn; only that they wield power over the Outsiders that other wizards cannot.
Limits to Starborn power? No clue...
We saw in Changes, how Harry cold-bloodedly used Molly -- used her love for him -- to guilt her into a violently self-destructive spiral; if Harry's plan (for her to assist his suicide) had succeeded, Molly would have died, or gone full-warlock. After the fact (in Ghost Story and in Cold Days) he realized how wrong -- how evil -- that was. But he knew before that, when he asked her; he just wouldn't/couldn't allow himself to look the facts in the face, because he "needed" her to do that.
We saw him ready willing & able to do murder after Rudy shot Murphy; only the KotC's (all of them together!) saved him (I still think this is evidence of Denarian influence on Harry).
So yeah, I think if Harry "snaps," and brings all his power to bear, and if the Starborn thing can leverage the way I suspect... Harry would be capable of making the Harry-Prime universe one that simply has to get Pruned (by Uriel etc).
Destroyer enuf 4 me !
Mira:
--- Quote ---We saw in Changes, how Harry cold-bloodedly used Molly -- used her love for him -- to guilt her into a violently self-destructive spiral; if Harry's plan (for her to assist his suicide) had succeeded, Molly would have died, or gone full-warlock. After the fact (in Ghost Story and in Cold Days) he realized how wrong -- how evil -- that was. But he knew before that, when he asked her; he just wouldn't/couldn't allow himself to look the facts in the face, because he "needed" her to do that.
--- End quote ---
You gotta look at the context though, I am not saying what Harry did wasn't wrong, but he also wasn't in his right mind, "and it is all your fault". Let us not forget that one of the Fallen had screwed with his head, that is why Uriel was able to attempt to set him straight in Ghost Story. Was he all that different from someone suffering from a painful terminal illness asking a loved one to put him out of his misery? And yeah, that loved one often complies and pays a price. Harry asked Molly because she was the only one who could. He asked her because he feared that Mab would turn him into a monster, a destroyer, it was Uriel's seven words that negated that.. Also Molly was no child when she assisted Harry, she was an adult able to make her own decisions.
morriswalters:
You don't ask your friends to lie for you. You don't use other peoples children to do what you can't do yourself. Most concisely in the case of the fictional character Harry Dresden you shut up an quit talking out of both sides of your mouth. Don't preach one thing and then do something else. This is just what Butcher has Harry say about Eb when they fall out in the early books.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on December 11, 2022, 11:57:18 AM --- You gotta look at the context though, I am not saying what Harry did wasn't wrong, but he also wasn't in his right mind...
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You gotta look at the context, though, he already knew she was in love with him (i.e. willing to put his interests above her own (that being one of the key elements of "love")); and he was in a right-enough mind to come up with a plan to outmaneuver Mab and emotionally-manipulate a talented mind-mage.
--- Quote from: Mira on December 11, 2022, 11:57:18 AM ---... Also Molly was no child when she assisted Harry, she was an adult able to make her own decisions.
--- End quote ---
How old was she, really? Legally an "adult" by mortal-law standards (I think), but
(a) mortal law gives kids their "majority" when science tells us their brains (& judgement) aren't fully-formed; &
(b) in other contexts, Harry has been very clear that he considers Molly "just a kid," barely past the pigtails-and-braces phase he recalls (and cites) so clearly.
So, Harry doesn't think of her as an adult... but he knowingly inflicts the kinds of emotional trauma that even adults will have trouble with.
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