The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Justin DuMorne
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 29, 2022, 05:33:23 PM ---That's why I think it is unreliable. Thomas was a small child, so his understanding of what he remembers is unreliable. Lord Raith isn't going to admit that he wasn't able to enthrall Margaret completely or at all. Lara who might know and would tell Thomas has her own agenda so I wouldn't fully trust what she said either. I do believe at some point this will all be revisited and hopefully Jim will have made up his mind by then as to how he wants that to resolve itself.
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The thing is, people put together details after the fact; little kids don't STAY little. There's family gossip, the "odd silence" on some topics (or some aspects of some topics), the "We Don't Talk About Bruno" (proceeds to talk about Bruno), etc. There's also the stuff learned from outside sources... non-Raith whampires, non-whamp supernaturals, etc. (I know people in RL who have learned things (as adults) about their parents, that they had lived through without noticing "what was really going on").
I presume virtually all the supernaturals include (at least some) learning-about and direct-experience-with their peer-groups. We first meet Irwin in just such an environment.
It was never a secret that Thomas was the son of Margaret LeFay, and I'm quite sure Thomas had met (at least some) fae before he started hanging out with Harry; and they would likely have commented on his mother (much as many of the Fae have commented to Harry). Other Supernaturals, too (such as Goodman Grey).
We don't know who Thomas may have spoken to, but I think it highly counter-intuitive to think Thomas would not have had experiences similar to what we know Harry had.
So -- in addition to his childhood memories -- Thomas will have a lot of other inputs to assemble a broader and more-nuanced view of his mother.
I suspect Thomas using the phrase "...there was some sort of business between them..." is both Watsonian-Thomas acknowledging that he didn't know the gist of the "business," and Doylist-Thomas cueing us that the "business" is an important matter still to be revealed.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I suspect Thomas using the phrase "...there was some sort of business between them..." is both Watsonian-Thomas acknowledging that he didn't know the gist of the "business," and Doylist-Thomas cueing us that the "business" is an important matter still to be revealed.
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I agree with that. One point you didn't mention which I think is important, what Thomas wantsto believe about his mother. The picture we get for the most part until she meets Malcolm and changes, that Margaret wasn't a very nice or good person. Unless Chauncy was lying to Harry, they were getting ready to welcome Margaret to Hell, in short she was damned. So Thomas might wantto believe that his mother was enthralled in some part by Lord Raith, thus she'd appear less evil in his eyes.
morriswalters:
You'll only know if Butcher tells you. Kids never really know their parents. They have this dream that is one part wish fulfillment with a sprinkle of wishful thinking. I suspect he'll mine this to produce some drama, assuming no more cat or dog issues and he takes a breather on romance.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 01, 2022, 06:17:56 PM --- ... One point you didn't mention which I think is important, what Thomas wantsto believe about his mother. The picture we get for the most part until she meets Malcolm and changes, that Margaret wasn't a very nice or good person. Unless Chauncy was lying to Harry, they were getting ready to welcome Margaret to Hell, in short she was damned...
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Agreed; Thomas isn't a neutral unbiased observer, here. He wants to think well of his mother.
Chauncy & Goodman Grey both agree she had become someone pretty bad.
But then she changed. Given that Chauncy's testimony was that she recanted her evil ways, it looks like a black eye for Hell. It's not a lie that benefits him or Hell, that I can see; so I suspect he was telling the truth (more or less) as a strategic move, trying to sucker Harry in (I am guessing that Grey had few (or no) interactions with "reformed" Margaret).
Rashid seems to have had a less-negative view of her. Morgan too (in that he promised her he'd protect Harry). Eb flatly says she's broken multiple WC laws;if the WC had held a trial, she'd presumably have been under a death-sentence.
Luccio's commentary is problematic: she was under Peabody's sway, and trying to get closer to Harry, so she may have "softened" what she said, so as not to hurt/offend Harry. Still, Luccio's opinion (like Rashid's & Morgan's) seems rather less harsh than Chauncy or Grey.
The faeries' commentary doesn't (IIRC) speak to Margaret LeFay's moral/ethical strengths or failings -- just that they found her to be relatively impressive (or in Erl's case, annoying (which is impressive in its own right!).
Do we have other relevant testimony/commentary/etc?
Mira:
I don't think so, and like any testimony, it is from a certain point of view.
--- Quote ---The faeries' commentary doesn't (IIRC) speak to Margaret LeFay's moral/ethical strengths or failings -- just that they found her to be relatively impressive (or in Erl's case, annoying (which is impressive in its own right!).
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I don't think what they have to say is relevant or rather should be taken with a grain of salt, simply because they don't make moral judgements.
--- Quote ---Luccio's commentary is problematic: she was under Peabody's sway, and trying to get closer to Harry, so she may have "softened" what she said, so as not to hurt/offend Harry. Still, Luccio's opinion (like Rashid's & Morgan's) seems rather less harsh than Chauncy or Grey.
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We are talking the "human" element here which complicates things, a more emotional range of feelings coloring their judgement of her verses any that Chauncy or Grey may have of her.
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