The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Maggie white council spy
g33k:
--- Quote from: Tinfoil hat on September 05, 2022, 11:51:10 AM --- ... Wardens wanted to bring her down ...
--- End quote ---
IIRC, she was on the Wardens' list of "Watch closely & do not trust" list, but not under any sort of "bring her down" / "kill-on-sight" order. They expected they'd have to take her down, but (I think they) felt she needed a few more lengths of rope to hang herself.
--- Quote from: Tinfoil hat on September 05, 2022, 11:51:10 AM --- ... But she is somehow on good terms with morgan and luccio ...
--- End quote ---
She was on some terms with Morgan & Luccio. We don't know that those were "good" terms!
These "terms" allowed Morgan to promise he'd look after her child if she couldn't; but that's an easy promise for her to get -- a child is born innocent, and most of the Wardens are absolutely on-board with protecting the innocent, especially children!
--- Quote from: Tinfoil hat on September 05, 2022, 11:51:10 AM --- ... Has meetings with rashid ...
--- End quote ---
I think Rashid is the least-White-Council wizard on the WC (barring only any "Black Council" or other explicit traitors/infiltrators).
He is the Gatekeeper above all, a close ally of Winter (or whichever other Supernatural power is on "Hold the Gates" duty) & defender of the entire Mortal realm. I am 95% sure that he considers the entirety of the White Council (its laws, its membership, its rules, etc) as an adjunct to his role as Gatekeeper.
As such, he's going to regard Margaret LeFay more or less neutrally, or even slightly-favorably, until/unless she shows him that she's a problem to his primary mission; and, if nothing else, he'll see her as a rare kindred-spirit, a mortal wizard familiar & comfortable with the deep-Nevernever and the Ways.
--- Quote from: Tinfoil hat on September 05, 2022, 11:51:10 AM --- ... And is somehow the council's choose togive birth to and raise a starborn. Thats something which I think requires someone u trust to do. ...
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I don't think the WC had that plan; most of them (the WC as a whole, tho with undoubted exceptions) didn't trust her. Official Warden policy put her on their "watchlist" and most of the Wardens distrusted her; consequently, most of the "Law-abiding" members of the White Council took their cues from the Wardens, and also distrusted her.
They seem to have known about such a plan, but I don't think they were part of it, pushing for it to happen, or putting in effort/resources to advance the plan.
I think some individual wizards -- without broader White-Council / Senior-Council knowledge or approval -- may have been involved with Maggie's "Starbabe" plan. Morgan seems to have known, but I don't think he "approved" (or was helping). Since he seems to have been writing for Luccio's eyes in Journal, it looks like she knew, too -- likely from him.
I expect this was the plan Maggie was trying to recruit Ebenezer for, so I presume he (at the least) could infer most of the details.
But it was, likely, a Black Council plan. At that meeting with Eb, there was (that we know of):
* Maggie LeFay, rogue wizard & suspected Lawbreaker, infamous for "skirting the law" and pressing every boundary of it
* Maggie's lord&master, papa Raith (head of the Whamps, who we know used Outsider-magic)
* Ramp duchess ArianaThat's a Black Council operation, right there!
--- Quote from: Tinfoil hat on September 05, 2022, 11:51:10 AM --- ... Then Mr Sunshine manipulates maggie by introducing her to a random good guy.
--- End quote ---
I'm still unclear over the question: where did Maggie summon the power & the will to defy lord Raith??!?
He was at the very apex of his powers; her Death Curse hadn't yet stripped-away his ability to feed, or to addict mortals. And he had years to work on Maggie, to subvert her will, to guarantee her inability to resist him.
My working theory for this -- and it's only a theory, I don't think we have WoJ or canon answering -- is that Thomas gave her the strength: she loved him, and when she learned that Raith always killed his sons, she
* broke free of Raith's control
* formulated a plan to thwart Raith (with her Death Curse, stripping his ability to Feed)
* ran. like. a. bat. out. of. hell!I suspect this intel was provided by Mab or Lea (or any of her contacts in Winter; but at the direction of Mab (who also wanted a Starborn wizard!))
Because it was "love" -- genuine & selfless -- it could bypass Whampish controls; but not being amorous/erotic, it didn't trigger the Burn, so Papa Raith wasn't alerted that Maggie genuinely loved someone. It gave her the time she needed to do the needed prep-work for steps 2&3 above.
This was how & when she turned away from her hell-bent path.
Falling for Malcom locked her away from Raith power, and solidified her beyond Hell's reach.
forumghost:
I mean according to what Lash said in White Night:
--- Quote ---I wished I could have raised my eyebrows. Possessed by what?
"An Outsider," Lasciel said. "I have felt such a presence before. This attack is drawn directly from the mind of the Outsider."
Gosh, that was interesting. Not relevant, but interesting.
"It is relevant," Lasciel said, "because of the circumstances of your birth - because of why you were born, Harry. Your mother found the strength to escape Lord Raith for a reason."
--- End quote ---
So the most obvious guess is that Maggie Sr got out because she realized that she had accidentally joined Cthulu's team and did a 180, deciding to have a Starborn Child because "shit I really fuck up there didn't I?"
Ed0517:
--- Quote from: Tinfoil hat on September 07, 2022, 03:57:46 PM ---Maggie was a spy for the white council not team upstairs. This means she can be damned for here questionable actions. Odin and mab are both on the good side but i doubt they are going to the pearly gates. Grey is on team good guy but mr Sunshine was still gonna nuke him
--- End quote ---
Maggie as a spy is an interesting idea. But I'd say Odin may be on the good side, but Mab is on MAB'S side. Grey is on GREY'S side, but he has his own code of honor - if he is bought, he stays bought.
--- Quote --- But she is somehow on good terms with morgan and luccio.
--- End quote ---
They knew her. Morgan also knew Harry. They were not on good terms. They just were on non-shooting terms. might have been the same with Maggie. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Word comes out... well, can't ask Eb to do THIS wet work. Morgan would do, most likely. Loyal guard dog, with considerable power.
--- Quote ---Has meetings with rashid.
--- End quote ---
Harry has met with Nicodemus several times. Is Harry team Evil?
I don't think the WC planned the Starborn. They would not have LOST Harry for so many years of they did. Even if Maggie gave them the slip for a time... they would have found him. He'd have grown up, most likely, in Hog Hollow with Grandpa. Maybe even a pseudo Grandma. Where they could keep an eye on his and watch and guard him, while the WC developed their superweapon.
Conspiracy Theorist:
More likely Margaret was a useful back channel to many persons and groups providing a route for exchange information as being partially trusted by everyone, effectively a free agent courier until Raith snared her and ruined that. Then everyone would have turned against her as knowing too much of their business.
morriswalters:
Margaret was old by the time Thomas was born. Luccio was her contemporary. Nobody sets out to star as the villain in their own story. Whatever she was at the end she had a backstory which got her there. In some senses the story implies that at first she had noble aims. So while she was becoming Margaret La Fay she was a part of wizard society. She was known and ran with her contemporaries.
She broke at least one of the Laws directly, The First Law. To the Council at large she was under a death sentence. She may have time traveled and she lived with Raith and there is no indication that he enthralled her at first. She abandoned her child to a life as a vampire. Since Eb was ignorant of the existence of Thomas we can assume it was because she wanted him ignorant. Since Eb was the wet works guy for the SC it is possible to assume that he went to that meeting at the direction of the SC to hear Maggie's pitch.
There is no indication in the text that Eb saw her after that point, which begs a couple of questions. When did he see Malcolm and when did he become aware of Harry?
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