The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
In defense of the WC
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: g33k on September 26, 2022, 06:31:05 PM ---I'm pretty sure the WC, as currently constituted, is going to fall.
I suspect this issue is going to be a big part of the reason why it does... and why in fact it should.
I don't think we know that, actually. The Korean kid may have been a Molly-caliber mind mage, or even (potentially) stronger.
(Obviously, Molly became much more powerful with Harry's teaching; the Korean kid never got anything comparable)
--- End quote ---
He could have been, but the odds say he wasn't, because Molly-level Talent is rare. Any given warlock, just a matter of odds, is more likely to be a local menace than a major threat to the world.
As for a Council/Parenet larger alliance, it's tough to set up because the Council is set in their ways and don't trust Harry and his associates, and the plan won't work without the Council involved.
--- Quote ---
Other people have theorized that Harry himself, and his allies, could form the nucleus of an "advanced studies" program for the Paranet's more-powerful talents, without ever involving the WC.
--- End quote ---
No, they can't. Or at least, they can't on any useful scale.
Training the Council-level Talents is a full-time task. Harry could train maybe one or two at a time, Elaine maybe one or two at a time, Molly one or two at a time if she could get free of Winter. Harry doesn't have many other allies who are powerful enough and skilled enough (and who have the right mindset for it, which is very important) to train high-end Talents.
Trying to train more than a handful at a time is a good way to end up with a major-league warlock, or a trainee who isn't up to the Council level because of sloppy training.
The world probably only produces a few hundred potential Council-level Talents a generation, but that's still way more than Harry and his allies could possibly train (and restrain) on their own, even if they could identify and reach them all.
--- Quote ---
Harry could be one instructor, Elaine another. Morty is highly-specialized, but within his specialty is White-Council caliber. He might be able to entice Molly to teach. Etc...
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Nope. Mort is highly specialized, and that's just not good enough. A dozen minor Talents don't add up to a Wizard, even if they're all as good as a Wizard in some specialty. There's also the social and political elements to consider, too.
And then there's the nasty part, which is inescapable. Even with good training, some of the high-end Talents will still end up going bad. Some Talents might need to face the carrot and the stick both to be persuaded to stay and the strait-and-narrow, or even to accept the training from the teachers. When that happens, somebody has to be the heavy and enforce the rules, or kill the new warlocks.
Which means you still need the Council and the Wardens. If the Council falls and the Paranet rises to take its place, to do that job they more or less have to become the Council...which they cannot. They are minor Talents, they just aren't powerful enough to take the Council's place. Whatever took the place of the Council would have to gather in the majority of the Wizards and the more they did what they had to do, the more they would start to look like...the White Council.
If the Council falls, its replacement has to be more or less the Council 2.0 or something along those lines. The Parenet just can't do it.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Ed0517 on September 26, 2022, 07:44:56 PM ---I think we are overrating a lot of these warlocks - global level threats? World class? How many of the WC are even world class? They are all below the thousands of WC members. Even Harry says he would be crushed by the Seniors, and I think he said he was in the top 30 or so on raw power. The vast majority of these warlocks are at most a localized threat. They are not the Allied army facing the German Army in 1944, they are some loonie on LSD with a stolen 9 MM.
--- End quote ---
Exactly. A few of them are worse than that, the equivalent of a major gang leader or the like, a very few of them can be major problems, but still nothing the Council couldn't crush easily if it became necessary.
The Kemmlers are rare, few, and far between.
Though probably any Council-level Talent is a potential world threat, with the right knowledge and experience. That's part of what makes them Council-level Talents.
g33k:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on September 26, 2022, 07:46:57 PM --- ... Any given warlock, just a matter of odds, is more likely to be a local menace than a major threat to the world ...
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True enough; but this wasn't just "any given warlock."
This was the warlock hand picked by the Merlin to rub in Harry's face. I'd put long odds on him being one of the stronger Warlocks they had captured in several years; so if Harry raised too big a stink ... they can prove the kid in fact was a major threat who needed to be put down.
g33k:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on September 26, 2022, 07:46:57 PM --- No, they can't. Or at least, they can't on any useful scale.
Training the Council-level Talents is a full-time task. Harry could train maybe one or two at a time, Elaine maybe one or two at a time, Molly one or two at a time if she could get free of Winter. Harry doesn't have many other allies who are powerful enough and skilled enough (and who have the right mindset for it, which is very important) to train high-end Talents.
Trying to train more than a handful at a time is a good way to end up with a major-league warlock, or a trainee who isn't up to the Council level because of sloppy training.
The world probably only produces a few hundred potential Council-level Talents a generation, but that's still way more than Harry and his allies could possibly train (and restrain) on their own, even if they could identify and reach them all ...
--- End quote ---
Justin thought he could teach 2 at a time; and we don't really know the upper limit.
The Craftmaster/Apprentice model is usually thought of as 1:1 or at most 1:few, but the "vocational school" model shows it doesn't have to be that way, and the WC's "baby warden school" in the desert showed that more-modern "team teaching" methods can get better than a 2:1 student:teacher ratio (though I don't think we have a precise number).
"A few hundred a generation" (call it 400 for an estimate (mainly because the numbers work very-cleanly) is only an annual class-size of about 20 per year; but that's worldwide (and as you note, they will miss some).
Still, it's probably more than Harry/Paranet/etc can handle, but I think -- after a few years -- they'd begin making a substantial reduction in the number of warlocks who cropped up each year; and as they produced trained people, they'd have more and more who could do the work of teaching.
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on September 26, 2022, 07:46:57 PM --- Nope. Mort is highly specialized, and that's just not good enough. A dozen minor Talents don't add up to a Wizard, even if they're all as good as a Wizard in some specialty.
--- End quote ---
Molly is also specialized, though less-so than Mort.
Mort, however, is a world-caliber power... despite his narrow specialty, he's not a "minor" talent.
Mort took down Capiorcorpus.
Harry tried.
Molly tried.
Mort did it.
Mort may not be any use teaching wizards to manipulate the forces of the elements; but if any of them have ectomantic/necromantic abilities, Mort is likely a better teacher than anyone on the White Council. Harry himself could use those lessons, I think: he's got a fair bit of native talent in that direction, but little-to-no training; so he's not well-equipped to avoid any well-known (within the field) screw-up modes, that an experienced teacher could point out.
Harry might also be able to recruit River Shoulders, for some wilderness lessons; Listens to Wind respects RS enough that he might then join.
Harry might induce Rashid to teach on the dangers of Outsiders (I'm pretty sure the Gatekeeper considers that job (the Gatekeeper) more important than the entire rest of the White Council, and would keep mum about teaching anti-Outsider lessons to non-WC wizards).
Etc.
It wouldn't be perfect -- far from it!
But Harry & allies & the Paranet -- making a concerted effort -- would already be doing more good the entire White Council.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: g33k on September 26, 2022, 09:43:00 PM ---True enough; but this wasn't just "any given warlock."
This was the warlock hand picked by the Merlin to rub in Harry's face.
--- End quote ---
I doubt that very seriously. He was a Chicago area warlock who had been captured, after doing a lot of nasty local damage, Harry was there because he was the Warden of Chicago. I don't think there was any 'hand picking' going on.
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