The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry still hosts Lasciel's Shadow
Conspiracy Theorist:
The smell of Brimstone wasn’t Harry using Hellfire, it was Rudy crapping his pants. Occams razor, the simplest explanation is most often the right one.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on May 30, 2022, 03:56:32 PM ---The smell of Brimstone wasn’t Harry using Hellfire, it was Rudy crapping his pants. Occams razor, the simplest explanation is most often the right one.
--- End quote ---
That could be too.. ::)
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on May 30, 2022, 03:07:57 PM ---Except Harry doesn't seem very power hungry
...
--- End quote ---
id!Harry is plenty power-hungry.
Mostly, Harry keeps a tight rein on his id.
But the Shadow & id!Harry were "talking" before Harry himself knew about it. And Harry had gotten that whole brimstone/Hellfire thing going, also before Harry himself began overtly talking to the Shadow... how, exactly, if not by working with id!Harry, and getting the Hellfire power-up? (that Harry in his conscious mind would have rejected)
Mira:
--- Quote ---
But the Shadow & id!Harry were "talking" before Harry himself knew about it. And Harry had gotten that whole brimstone/Hellfire thing going, also before Harry himself began overtly talking to the Shadow... how, exactly, if not by working with id!Harry, and getting the Hellfire power-up? (that Harry in his conscious mind would have rejected)
--- End quote ---
Hell fire didn't happen until after Harry realized that Sheila was the Shadow. There is no evidence that the Id had gotten it going before Harry became aware. We know while he was talking, but the point is the Id has never been able to take over Harry. I think there is more evidence for that actually, because the point of the Shadow was to corrupt and weaken Harry's mind and will so that eventually he'd accept the coin. This didn't happen, so it is natural that the Shadow would try a different angle, Harry's Id. The Id has always been Harry's dark side, long before Lasciel came along, but needed because a lot of Harry's strength comes from it. Another Classic Star Trek episode, that Jim has borrowed from, a transporter accident where Kirk is split into the two side of his personality, the good conscious side and his Id if you will or the dark side.. Turns out he needed both to be what he is and survive/
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on May 31, 2022, 11:02:34 AM --- Hell fire didn't happen until after Harry realized that Sheila was the Shadow. There is no evidence that the Id had gotten it going before Harry became aware.
--- End quote ---
Harry's Fuego was smelling of brimstone (without his conscious intent, nor awareness of Sheila as the Shadow) -- and Harry was stressing on it, understanding it to be an influence of Lasciel. We don't know, with any certainty, that it was providing any substantive power-up... or that it wasn't. But it was really there; it wasn't just the Shadow playing mental games. Will smelled it: it was part of recounting how Harry had become darker, scarier... and more-powerful. The fight with Cowl scared the Alphas; they saw for the first time that Harry was moving to a power-scale that was simply out of their league.
I call that "evidence" ... I don't call it "proof!" But I'm advancing a theory, not demonstrating a fact.
When Harry went after Rudy, we saw:
Out of control rage
Muderous intent, and acting on that intent.
Smell of brimstone.
And all the actve Knights of the Cross -- the people tasked with redeeming the Hosts of the Fallen -- taking the field to contain Harry.
The theory fits. Other theories fit, too. This one fits... better than most. (YMMV)
--- Quote from: Mira on May 31, 2022, 11:02:34 AM --- ... We know while he was talking, but the point is the Id has never been able to take over Harry...
--- End quote ---
I'll argue that it has, a (very) few times. Id!Harry almost "took him over" outside Victor Sells' lakehouse, before the climactic battle (it showed us that Harry's dark-side and will-to-power were very strong, sometimes only barely leashed); and a few other times (e.g. when Molly provoked him to slag the garbage-can outside Priority Health(name?) aka the New Velvet Room. It managed to fully do so in Battle for Chicago, when Rudy killed Karrin.
Mostly, the id's urging Harry are just that: "urges" (often dark urges, like most of us have). Mostly, Harry is VERY good about keeping them contained. But nobody's perfect. And while Id!Harry almost never gets to pick exactly what Harry does, there is some influence on Harry's choices & actions.
--- Quote from: Mira on May 31, 2022, 11:02:34 AM --- ... This didn't happen, so it is natural that the Shadow would try a different angle, Harry's Id. The Id has always been Harry's dark side, long before Lasciel came along, but needed because a lot of Harry's strength comes from it. Another Classic Star Trek episode, that Jim has borrowed from, a transporter accident where Kirk is split into the two side of his personality, the good conscious side and his Id if you will or the dark side.. Turns out he needed both to be what he is and survive/
--- End quote ---
100% agree with all of this.
Thing is, the "Sheila Gambit" didn't work, and then "Lash" didn't work either -- in fact, Lash turned against Lasciel!
So the Shadow retreated, to try again. This time, working longer with Id!Harry... staying even further "in the shadows." Not even giving him the brimstone... until revealed by Angelic action.
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