Author Topic: Battle ground questions  (Read 10049 times)

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2022, 09:26:01 PM »
It's something he does every now and then. Sometimes it's frustrating, and it often causes disagreements online (oh the horror), but mostly it doesn't matter to me. He's human, he's bound to change his mind or forget things or just make plain old errors. I admit, as the series has gone on more canon-breaking moments have happened and it appears to be becoming more of an issue. I know he cleverly hinted that it might be intentional (which certainly helps get the monkey off his back...for a while), but I am not so sure how much is intentional and how much are genuine mistakes. Hopefully he will find a clever way to rectify most of it (hoping for all of it is madness).

Do the alternate (demonic) forms wield more magic than the human forms? I hadn't really noticed that. Not saying it isn't the case but that would be curious. I don't know why that would make a difference.
(click to show/hide)
What do you mean by "the Destroyer put some spin on it"? It sounds interesting but I am not sure I follow.
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plural noun: stigmata

    1.
    a mark of disgrace associated with a particular circumstance, quality, or person.
    "the stigma of having gone to prison will always be with me"
Depending on how you define magic the Denarian's use it constantly. The classic example is that they are immortal in either form. If you mean that they don't throw fireballs then you're right, but that is merely a nod to the fact that there are only so many ways to represent magic in prose.

I'm saying something at a lower level. Butcher made magic a use it or lose it affair.  And he used it in a fairly prominent way. He justifies Molly's talent and Charity's lack of talent using this device. You can always say that Marcone had latent powers, but by canon you use them or lose them. Marcone isn't particularly old but he's closer to Charity's age then to Molly's. This at least suggests that Butcher is using deceit to further the story versus having a coherent vision. For theory crafters there are some other implications as well.  Take Malcolm.  The fact that Eb said that he was a mortal is now meaningless. Because if Harry could miss Marcone, Eb could have missed something similar about Malcolm.

Susan triggered the curse when Harry murdered her.  This is one of those arbitrary points in the story where Butcher uses the distinction to keep Harry from using magic to murder directly. He can cut Susan's throat but he can't strike her down with lightening.

On Chichen Itza there is a two minute span where Harry blanks out. It's meaningful because it is otherwise unnecessary. I suppose this is what they call Chekov's Gun. I think ID Harry or alternate Harry may not be as squeamish as our Harry and gave the curse a hard push with whatever Butcher is concealing about what Harry is.


Offline Mira

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2022, 09:51:21 PM »
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Except that it appears that the officials won't have a body.
Any charges at all are exceedingly unlikely (sadly).

That is true, I was speaking in a strict legal sense.. However I believe our two Holy Knights might know more that we or Harry do in this case.  They said in effect that justice will be done as far as Rudolph goes.. Whether that mean a perpetual seat at the local insane asylum, or some other form of Divine Retribution, it will be handed out and served up to Rudolph on a platter.
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Honestly, the Marcone-always-had-some-magic-theory makes sense to me. I have always found it weird, how well he managed everything in the magical world and how he knew so much and so on. He didn't fit into the story IMHO. But with him being a secret practitioner it actually makes sense. Maybe he was just a one sided talent like Mortimer and his ectomancy, but in his way one of the best. Not council level but no lightweight either.

He never struck me as having any magical talent at all.  Nor did he need it, he is a very clever cold
predatory crime boss.  He began to lust for the power of the supernatural world the minute he witnessed Harry blowing the doors of his night club.  A guy with real magical talent wouldn't have been shocked, Marcone was.. So he began his quest to acquire as much as he could, even though he was a mere vanilla human, he had amassed a great deal of influence and power[not the magical kind] that he used to great effect in bargaining with the supernatural world.  He couldn't do magic so bought and surrounded himself with magical talent, he tried to buy Harry if you will remember and Harry refused.  Now Marcone claimed to respect him for it, but who knows.  Harry also made use of Marcone when he could as payment for pulling his goodies out of the fire in the case of the Loop and on Demonreach.  Then the relationship started to fall apart when Marcone wouldn't help him in Changes.  Then when Namshiel's coin fell into his lap in Small Favor, it presented a temptation that ultimately Marcone couldn't turn away from.  Though he may live to regret it, as the old Chinese curse says,"be careful for what you wish for, you may get it."

Offline g33k

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2022, 01:16:54 AM »
  On Chichen Itza there is a two minute span where Harry blanks out. It's meaningful because it is otherwise unnecessary. I suppose this is what they call Chekov's Gun.

Hmm.  I hadn't really considered it in that light; but I think you're right.

  I think ID Harry or alternate Harry may not be as squeamish as our Harry and gave the curse a hard push with whatever Butcher is concealing about what Harry is.
I think HarryPrime has too much mental discipline for it to be that... But we'll probably see, I guess!

Some other theories:
  • Harry has a brand-spanking-fresh WK Mantle that he knows nothing about, other than "power."  And Mab has already fiddled his memory once, when she only had a standard fairy-bargain & "emissary" status to work with.  And her handmaiden Lea was right on hand.  Something-fae seems the most-likely, to me.
  • Later on -- in Battle-Ground -- Harry goes ragemode, loses his temper, and tries to kill Rudy.  A couple of Knights of the Cross step in; in fact, the ONLY TWO THERE ARE step in!  I know they (theoretically) came to Chicago to fight Ethniu, but... that's not their job.  Their job is to oppose the Fallen and to redeem the Fallen's Host; if the entire complement of KotC's are tag-teaming one person... odds favor that person being a Denarian.
  • Of the "alt!Harrys" the one I think likely is Future!Harry.  I'm pretty sure there's a WoJ that before it's all over, Dresden will have majorly broken every single one of the Laws of Magic; that there are entire novels devoted to specific Lawbreak'ing.  We have already seen him break the whole Necromancy thing, I suspect, with Dino-Sue (and/or raising all the human(!) shades, to take down Bianca).  I am hoping/expecting a "Time-Travel-Harry" novel, where he goes back and re-enters a bunch of his old stories; we already know Jim is taking a lot of inspiration for his "Mirror Mirror" novel from ST:TOS, and I'll point to ST:DS9 episoded "Trial and Tribble-ations" which time-travels back in tthe TOS episode "Trouble with Tribbles."
I think any of these are decent explanations for those 2 minutes...

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2022, 02:37:46 AM »
You may be right.  I don't think so but I am not Butcher. So it's a personal bias.  On Reddit there has been some talk that he's told the betas that it will all come out in the end.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2022, 08:38:31 AM »
Harry’s memories are a public play ground, he is the most unreliable of narrators.

However Bonea should have all of Harry’s memories, blocked from him or not they are available to her, and explains her use in the narrative, she is a reliable narrator.

Offline Mira

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2022, 10:20:40 AM »
You may be right.  I don't think so but I am not Butcher. So it's a personal bias.  On Reddit there has been some talk that he's told the betas that it will all come out in the end.

If we all live long enough to see it... It may all come out, but that doesn't mean it will be satisfactory.. ::)

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2022, 10:25:31 AM »
If we all live long enough to see it... It may all come out, but that doesn't mean it will be satisfactory.. ::)

Mab gives Harry the norovirus, the “Winter vomiting bug”?

Offline Mira

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2022, 10:38:11 AM »
Mab gives Harry the norovirus, the “Winter vomiting bug”?

Or turns him into the Tooth Fairy.. :P

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2022, 02:07:14 PM »
Nope, that’s Lacuna.

Saying that I want to see a scene of Lacuna doing her job in all of its horrific splendour. Perhaps one of Maggies schoolmates gets to learn a lesson about oral health he will never forget?

Offline BrainFireBob

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2022, 04:15:10 PM »
Depending on how you define magic the Denarian's use it constantly. The classic example is that they are immortal in either form. If you mean that they don't throw fireballs then you're right, but that is merely a nod to the fact that there are only so many ways to represent magic in prose.

I'm saying something at a lower level. Butcher made magic a use it or lose it affair.  And he used it in a fairly prominent way. He justifies Molly's talent and Charity's lack of talent using this device. You can always say that Marcone had latent powers, but by canon you use them or lose them. Marcone isn't particularly old but he's closer to Charity's age then to Molly's. This at least suggests that Butcher is using deceit to further the story versus having a coherent vision. For theory crafters there are some other implications as well.  Take Malcolm.  The fact that Eb said that he was a mortal is now meaningless. Because if Harry could miss Marcone, Eb could have missed something similar about Malcolm.

Susan triggered the curse when Harry murdered her.  This is one of those arbitrary points in the story where Butcher uses the distinction to keep Harry from using magic to murder directly. He can cut Susan's throat but he can't strike her down with lightening.

On Chichen Itza there is a two minute span where Harry blanks out. It's meaningful because it is otherwise unnecessary. I suppose this is what they call Chekov's Gun. I think ID Harry or alternate Harry may not be as squeamish as our Harry and gave the curse a hard push with whatever Butcher is concealing about what Harry is.

The effect of the curse is to explode the heart outward like something reached in and yanked it out.

I rather think that a ghostly immaterial idHarry spent two minutes teleporting all over the world literally getting his hands dirty as he literally executed the curse. A brief flash of a ghostly apparition, a yank, suddenly flashing to another victim- it would explain the nightmares and even some of the flames et al if magically talented Red Court tried to ward themselves as they saw their compatriots fall.

Separately:

The primary purpose of the KotC is anti-Denarian, not their sole purpose. Murphy using Fidelaccius at Chicken Itza was authorized by the Sword, as evidenced by it pronouncing judgement using her against the Lords of the Outer Night.

If I am right in my theory that Harry is Uriel's Knight- the Knight of Vengeance/Retribution/Judgement- as Michael was Raphael's and Sanya is Michael's and Shiro was Gaebriel's- then it was two Knights ensuring that one of their brothers did not commit a mortal sin and descend into being a monster.

To be completely accurate, I think that what was left of Lash is Bonea. The "personality" took a mind bullet for Harry. The essence of shadow- the separate spiritual being-ness- Michael might be correct about as unkillable. I think that regrew into Bonea, saved by the act of love that was Lash's self-sacrifice. WoJ was that we saw Lash in Ghost Story- the angel of death that was angry that Harry did not recognize her is a good fit.

EDIT: I also think this is why Mab and Uriel have been interacting. They are sharing an effective agent in a way that benefits both of them as long as Mab doesn't push for the more monstrous side of the Winter Knight- Uriel gets access to the Winter Knight capabilities for "free" and Mab gets a Knight of the Cross with Soulfire in exchange. She just needs to use other agents- like the Redcap or malks- for the less savory WK duties; quite a good deal for both of them.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 04:18:14 PM by BrainFireBob »

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2022, 04:58:33 PM »
Mab and Uriel have been working together for a long time and Harry’s situation is not unique, see Odin/Santa/St Nicholas.

This beggars the question, was Mab’s earliest attempts at recruiting Harry at Uriel’s request? Right after the events of Grave Peril? She held the position open when previously she clearly had not been that picky. Harry in having the Hellhound shoot him brought things to a head and showed Mab and Uriel were working together, clearly that was NOT a one off and likely has been occurring for some time in relation to Harry. The issue is forced again in Skin Game, Uriel loans his grace to Michael to give him one last hurrah to aid Harry, in what clearly turns out to be a Mab scheme for revenge and to bring the superweapons undef Harry’s control.

The decision Harry made in in Grave Peril created the Prime Universe and its Mirror. Uriel took note of Harry in the Prime Universe and dismissed him in the Mirror. Mirror Harry never became Winter Knight because Uriel never pushed it. Prediction for Mirror Mirror.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2022, 05:42:48 PM »
The idea behind why Mab was so bound and determined to have Harry as her Knight has probably changed over the course of the series. The current answer might be that she knew why Harry was created. 

My crack theory that she became Mab to make sure that he can do what he will need to do. Whatever that might be.

Take the marriage to Lara.  Mab says decisions she made while mortal keep her from marrying Lara.  In my crack scenario she couldn't do it because she knows Harry has to. And she knows this because someone told her.

There are other things going on in the background as well. 

Vadderung suggesting that this has all happened before, when he says that perhaps Harry had already kept the incursion on Demonreach from releasing the prisoners. This suggests a possible once through time loop.

Vadderung telling Harry Margaret's location so Harry can go and rescue her and then accepting no payment.

Members of the Senior Council so badly frightened that they will not explain what's going on. 

Butcher introducing the idea that Alfred is concealing something.

Bonea as a new talking head.

This is my crack theory.  Yours might be better and if so I may embrace it and take it to heart.


Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2022, 12:09:21 PM »
Proceed on the idea that Marcone- or even all mortals- have a small amount of talent (hence why rituals like Raith's canned summoning works). Say further that they can't develop it in a useful way because they lack the Sight. Further, developing skills takes confidence in possibility and the ability to refine the skill- when you first break a board you are using a lot more unfocused force and energy than you will in 10 or 20 years, even if you are less objectively strong by that point.

By that analogy, Namshiel is providing certainty that things are possible, the sensor suite to observe what Marcone is doing when he manipulates eldritch energies, and possibly through "VR training" giving Marcone the refinement of a lot of practice in a short span of time. Consider Marcone's shields. Very weak- to me, that represented how weak his ability at magic is compared to Harry's. He then used it with maximum cleverness and efficiency. The teapot dome? Namshiel slows time from Marcone's perspective, he works on tiny bits at a time that represent the maximum he can move, but he objectively does it so fast it is like he has expanded massive power quickly. He hasn't- instead of lifting the entire crate of sand in one mighty heave, he made the equivalent of millions of tweezer trips in seconds.

To me, emphasizing the weakness of Marcone's shields- and that he compensated by just stacking them as rapidly as possible for a kind of disintegrating defense-in-depth- was exactly what I'd expect of a low-powered but highly knowledgeable theoretician. He did the big effect (powerful effective shielding) with barely any use of energy (because he's very weak).

Regarding the burning- technically Harry didn't do anything to Bianca. He poured his mystic might into the ghosts of her victims like a loan, allowing them to have enough mystic energy to affect the physical world. That's why it neither violated the Laws nor the Accords. Harry didn't do anything to Bianca or her guests- he gave her prior victims the ability to do so. So no Accorded curbstomping of the White Council. A brilliant White Court vampire-style solution. 

Killing Fomor minions with magic is a fascinating question, though. Once modified, are they still human? Are there any without at least gills? When does backlash occur? If you throw a fireball at someone, and they get capped seconds before your fireball hits, do you backlash? Or is it when you gather your power to kill? If you blast in a door with air or force, and an elderly gentleman has a heart attack from the noise, does that count?
I don't think we know, or should assume, Marcone is "very weak". Weaker than Harry in magical might, sure. But we don't know how much weaker he is than most. This is without adding Hellfire into the equation, and we know that adds a lot of muscle. Raw strength versus effective strength has also been shown to be a consideration. You can have incredible strength but if you're not efficient/effective at using it, it hardly matters. A classic example is Uriel versus Nicodemus. Uriel can end galaxies, universes. Yet is powerless to act against Nicodemus directly. So in many situations, Nicodemus is effectively stronger. In wizard terms, Harry has always had a big tank but the more efficient wizards get far more bang for their buck - Carlos is a great comparison in this. Where Marcone falls on the gradient is unclear, but I wouldn't be so quick to assume he is low-powered. As you point out, he is has clearly had enough training to be highly efficient and effective. His biggest lack is experience, and he is gaining ground quickly.

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear. I was referring to the scene where Harry burns down Bianca's mansion with his spell. Not when he uses the ghosts to kill her. When Harry screamed "Fuego! Pyrofuego!" he was intending to burn the vampires. Yet he accidentally burned some of their victims too - some of which quite probably were alive up until his fire ended them. Intentions matter, but Jim has gone on and on (both in Q&As and throughout the series) about how it's the results that really count. Whether you or I agree personally or not (and that's rhetorical because I don't think this is the right section of the board for very personal views on such touchy subjects), it's how Jim has written the series. Given that, we can assume that if Dresden killed mortals even accidentally it still contributes to dark magic taint.

As for the Fomor Servitors, Carlos seems to imply the reason that the White Council regard them as protected by the First Law is that the risk is high enough that a person who killed such humanoids/demi-humans has a high chance of going Warlock. Whether that's an absolute universal thing is much harder to know. But I would say that if those servitors have Free Will, it probably counts.

Depending on how you define magic the Denarian's use it constantly. The classic example is that they are immortal in either form. If you mean that they don't throw fireballs then you're right, but that is merely a nod to the fact that there are only so many ways to represent magic in prose.

I'm saying something at a lower level. Butcher made magic a use it or lose it affair.  And he used it in a fairly prominent way. He justifies Molly's talent and Charity's lack of talent using this device. You can always say that Marcone had latent powers, but by canon you use them or lose them. Marcone isn't particularly old but he's closer to Charity's age then to Molly's. This at least suggests that Butcher is using deceit to further the story versus having a coherent vision. For theory crafters there are some other implications as well.  Take Malcolm.  The fact that Eb said that he was a mortal is now meaningless. Because if Harry could miss Marcone, Eb could have missed something similar about Malcolm.

Susan triggered the curse when Harry murdered her.  This is one of those arbitrary points in the story where Butcher uses the distinction to keep Harry from using magic to murder directly. He can cut Susan's throat but he can't strike her down with lightening.

On Chichen Itza there is a two minute span where Harry blanks out. It's meaningful because it is otherwise unnecessary. I suppose this is what they call Chekov's Gun. I think ID Harry or alternate Harry may not be as squeamish as our Harry and gave the curse a hard push with whatever Butcher is concealing about what Harry is.
I think the transformation the Denarians use is essentially the same as Werewolves like the Alphas use i.e. a single spell. From memory, the type of lupine theriomorph the Alphas are is just considered a classic werewolf. This is like a wizard who knows just one spell (how to become a wolf and turn back into a human again). Beyond that, most of what we have seen from Denarians is just sorcery i.e. destructive magic.

So I think in the broad sense you are right that all Denarians are inherently magical and use it all the time, because Fallen are creatures of magic. Given Harry's experiences with Lash I think that's a fair enough way to look at it. There were plenty of magical things she did with him and for him (and against him) that had nothing to do with him being a wizard. And I do agree there are only some many ways to show magic in prose, particularly given constraints that are required for novels to actually work.

But I was really just talking about those who behaved like wizards, for all intents and purposes. Those who used a wide variety of magical behaviours, spells, and disciplines to at least simulate wizard-like actions.

You are I think quite right that magic is a "use it or lose it" situation. But we don't know that Marcone (or others) don't use magic. We only get to see things from Harry's perspective, by and large. We don't know the things outside of that extremely limited viewpoint.

I think you're absolutely right about Eb being able to miss that Malcolm may well have been something more than mortal. That said...Jim has changed how soulgazes works (and why they do and don't work) several times. This is clearly due to his ideas changing over time, and then coming back to the old ones and trying to make them connect. It mostly doesn't affect things badly but occasionally it can create issues. For example, originally any being that didn't have a soul (i.e. wasn't a mortal human) couldn't be soulgazed. Then that changed to them not being able to be soulgazed like mortals, but Harry still had to be careful of what they could do through eye contact (i.e. psychic assault). Then it became their souls were not inside, but represented by what they did to the world around them. Yet we have Harry also being terrified of soulgazing some beings (who were not mortal) due to what it might do to his sanity. If Malcolm say were not mortal, he shouldn't have been able to be soul gazed period. Yet, where do transubstantiated mortals like Mac or Uriel in Skin Game fit? What about seeing Ursiel in Rasmussen? What about the forest people? Or the Fae?

I don't know that Susan can be held responsible for the curse triggering. She didn't take an action. Her lifeblood (in a very literal sense) triggered the curse. But she didn't cut her own throat, even if she did allow Harry to. Harry made the choice to kill her. Unfortunately, the consequences are on him. If you shoot someone, you can't blame the bullet or the powder.

I get that Butcher is trying to ensure Harry hasn't murdered her with magic directly. But he also has said not all of the consequences of magic come from people in grey cloaks too. I believe he was talking about there are universal, cosmic consequences to doing things. This shouldn't be surprising especially considering magic is considered the fundamental force of Creation.

You could well be right, Harry's Id might have driven the bus during that 2 minute blackout. I doubt that absolves him though. He and Id Harry are the same being, the same soul. Just different bits talking to each other.

I can see what you meant about stigmata now. I didn't see that at all myself, it's a very interesting interpretation. Jim does like to use things like that and make them fit into his story. Look at how he takes the concept of transubstantiation from the Bible and uses it in his series.

He never struck me as having any magical talent at all.  Nor did he need it, he is a very clever cold
predatory crime boss.  He began to lust for the power of the supernatural world the minute he witnessed Harry blowing the doors of his night club.  A guy with real magical talent wouldn't have been shocked, Marcone was.. So he began his quest to acquire as much as he could, even though he was a mere vanilla human, he had amassed a great deal of influence and power[not the magical kind] that he used to great effect in bargaining with the supernatural world.  He couldn't do magic so bought and surrounded himself with magical talent, he tried to buy Harry if you will remember and Harry refused.  Now Marcone claimed to respect him for it, but who knows.  Harry also made use of Marcone when he could as payment for pulling his goodies out of the fire in the case of the Loop and on Demonreach.  Then the relationship started to fall apart when Marcone wouldn't help him in Changes.  Then when Namshiel's coin fell into his lap in Small Favor, it presented a temptation that ultimately Marcone couldn't turn away from.  Though he may live to regret it, as the old Chinese curse says,"be careful for what you wish for, you may get it."
He might have been shocked because it was a 6'9" angry wizard who was a lot stronger than him, and not many had the balls (or insanity) to attack him openly in his territory. He also just could have been scared. After all, Harry has scared plenty of magical humans and monsters too. And I think it's clear that Marcone DOES need magic, otherwise why would Jim write it in? Marcone could hardly be expected to survive all the supernatural encounters he has just vanilla. He's always had more on the ball than most expected. Not to mention, his heavyweight showdown with Harry has been on the cards since Storm Front.

Jim said smart wizards like Cowl are very careful about giving ANY information out, as wizards can use just about anything to get to another wizard. Information is a weapon after all, especially with wizards. Elaine has managed to keep of the Council's radar quite well, and fooled them about her real strength. Or most of them at any rate. It's an advantage against them.

Perhaps Marcone was just that careful. Perhaps not.

The idea behind why Mab was so bound and determined to have Harry as her Knight has probably changed over the course of the series. The current answer might be that she knew why Harry was created. 

My crack theory that she became Mab to make sure that he can do what he will need to do. Whatever that might be.

Take the marriage to Lara.  Mab says decisions she made while mortal keep her from marrying Lara.  In my crack scenario she couldn't do it because she knows Harry has to. And she knows this because someone told her.

There are other things going on in the background as well. 

Vadderung suggesting that this has all happened before, when he says that perhaps Harry had already kept the incursion on Demonreach from releasing the prisoners. This suggests a possible once through time loop.

Vadderung telling Harry Margaret's location so Harry can go and rescue her and then accepting no payment.

Members of the Senior Council so badly frightened that they will not explain what's going on. 

Butcher introducing the idea that Alfred is concealing something.

Bonea as a new talking head.

This is my crack theory.  Yours might be better and if so I may embrace it and take it to heart.
All interesting points. I like it. So to be clear, the theory is that Harry's whole life is a time loop around the end of the world? Perhaps all of human history? Essentially an ontological paradox?

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2022, 01:51:16 PM »
Only Harry is aware that Elaine is nearly as strong as him, the lazy White Council are relying upon Carlos assessment, as being too weak for the White Council. Carlos and his judgements on attractive women should not be trusted. I wonder if he reported back on the Molly incident?

Carlos will almost certainly try to reign in Elaine on orders of the White Council only to find to his horror, she is both much more powerful and more technically gifted (due to her tuition in Summer) than he is. It will not go well for Carlos psyche.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Battle ground questions
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2022, 02:00:24 PM »
All time travel stories are paradoxical by definition since they break causality. If Harry is going to time travel and Butcher says he is, and if he is going to change things, then he has to explain the paradox since he directly pointed it out.

If his intent is to merely fix continuity errors he can use the dazzle them with footwork technique.  Spielberg did this in Raiders of the Lost Ark when he has Indy hide on a submarine in broad daylight in the middle of the Med.  He then ramps up the action and never gives you a chance to question it. That's one way and I would be okay with that.

He seems to have something more substantive in mind. I don't know the why but I think he's telling us how. His chosen path seems to be a branching history. This is Mirror Mirror in a nutshell. So if he is in a time loop, the idea may be that he has not returned to the future he comes from. The Dresden time line that we see doesn't contain Harry Prime.  That the reality the DFiles takes place in, isn't the the reality it started from. 

What I would suspect if this were true, is that eventually Harry Prime ended  up in a place where things are falling apart. And goes back from the end of the world to loop through again to try and stop it. But this timeline is a product of the loop.  This is classic time travel fodder. So in this scenario the Harry we see isn't Harry Prime. Harry Prime is either dead somewhere in the past or hidden somewhere.