At what age does Talent usually manifest?

[Ed0517]

Maggie is... 10? 12? now. She's going thru puberty, most like. ( or do wizards, with longer lifespans, have that changed as well?). Seems like a likely time to start to show signs, plus Dad and Grandpa are SERIOUS heavyweights. I realize Molly was later, but Austin in Zoo Day was likely younger, and Molly's mom was a minor talent who had mostly stepped away from magic. Maybe Maggie can't DO much, but just see a sign it is coming?

[g33k]

Maggie is... 10? 12? now. She's going thru puberty, most like. ( or do wizards, with longer lifespans, have that changed as well?). Seems like a likely time to start to show signs, plus Dad and Grandpa are SERIOUS heavyweights. I realize Molly was later, but Austin in Zoo Day was likely younger, and Molly's mom was a minor talent who had mostly stepped away from magic. Maybe Maggie can't DO much, but just see a sign it is coming?

Usually at puberty, yes.

But that age varies, person to person; anywhere between 8-13 is considered a "normal" age for girls in the USA (9-14 for boys).

Puberty itself then lasts 2-5 years, and I'd expect powers to manifest nearer the middle or end of puberty, than at the beginning.

HOWEVER: it's very possible Maggie won't have any powers at all:  in the Dresdenverse, "salic law" suggests it (mostly) follows the maternal line, and Susan hadn't the slightest bit of magical talent.

On the gripping hand:  none of that really matters.  Maggie will (or won't) show powers according to Jim Butcher's plan for her and Harry; as for when?  Whenever it's most-inconvenient to her dad, of course!

 

[Mira]

  I think Harry was eleven when his talents made themselves known, but Molly may have been closer to fourteen. We were never told at what age Margaret's talent became known.  In the case of Charity it is hard to say whether or not she was a minor talent. Actually I'd say not, because according to her, she herself was headed down the same warlock road as her daughter.  Only being almost eaten by a dragon and saved from that dragon by Michael saved her from that fate.

  In the case of Maggie it is hard to tell, in years she should be going through the beginnings of puberty, but the way she is described, she seems closer to seven or eight.  Now that might be because her father still sees her as a very little girl.  She appears very intelligent, but the trauma she experienced at that age may have arrested her physical and emotional development.   

[g33k]

... Actually I'd say not, because according to her, she herself was headed down the same warlock road as her daughter ...

Charity explicitly says she had only a very weak talent; that may or may not have been accurate, for various reasons.

But we know her "coven-master" at the time was also pretty minor, but becoming more powerful by making deals & by performing blood-magic sacrifices; having been part of (some of) his rituals, she probably had a good idea how to pursue that same path to power, even if her own inherent talent was small.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Isn’t there a WOJ that we haven’t found out the full extent of the Leansidhe’s bargain with Margaret and when Harry does he wants to kill Lea?

Lea has a penchant for first born children, so the one thing to make Harry consider killing he involves Maggie. What if Margaret traded the first female issue of her line for Harry’s protection?

What if Lea wants Maggie to become a new Leansidhe? She is never destined to be a wizard?

[Ed0517]

Usually at puberty, yes.

But that age varies, person to person; anywhere between 8-13 is considered a "normal" age for girls in the USA (9-14 for boys).

Puberty itself then lasts 2-5 years, and I'd expect powers to manifest nearer the middle or end of puberty, than at the beginning.

HOWEVER: it's very possible Maggie won't have any powers at all:  in the Dresdenverse, "salic law" suggests it (mostly) follows the maternal line, and Susan hadn't the slightest bit of magical talent.

Mostly, yes... but wasn't there a WOJ that Maggie Sr.'s mom was a vanilla human - she got it from Daddy Eb

[g33k]

Mostly, yes... but wasn't there a WOJ that Maggie Sr.'s mom was a vanilla human - she got it from Daddy Eb

"Mostly" is one of those words that, in alt-universe fiction, means "could easily go either way."
 
I repeat my prior caveat:

...  Maggie will (or won't) show powers according to Jim Butcher's plan for her and Harry; as for when?  Whenever it's most-inconvenient to her dad, of course!

In-universe likelihood/genetics/etc is irrelevant; authorial intent is what decides this!

[Conspiracy Theorist]

"Mostly" is one of those words that, in alt-universe fiction, means "could easily go either way."
 
I repeat my prior caveat:In-universe likelihood/genetics/etc is irrelevant; authorial intent is what decides this!

We have never seen the White God, I suspect it may be Jim Butcher, and he doesn’t believe in free will for his subjects at all. He knows what is going to happen to Maggie, she has no choice in the matter.

[BrainFireBob]

"Mostly" is one of those words that, in alt-universe fiction, means "could easily go either way."
 
I repeat my prior caveat:In-universe likelihood/genetics/etc is irrelevant; authorial intent is what decides this!

We're told enough to know that there are two factors involved.

1) Genetic predisposition. It's inheritable.
2) There seems to be a "turn-on" element from exposure to magical energy in the womb/early childhood. This was explained with reference to Molly and Charity- Charity was still packing juju when she was pregnant with Molly, but not with Daniel, so Molly's switch was flipped to "on."

This also would explain the "Salic law" tendency of magic inheritance. If mama's got the juju, the fetus is automatically exposed. If Dad does; he needs to be using magic around his pregnant honey to shave the offspring's odds- say moving her around via the Nevernever, which the paranoid Eb might have done.

Maggie was conceived by Susan and Harry after Mama had a bunch of magic tattoos. Will she manifest? Don't know, but with the crowds Susan ran in with the Fellowship and the War it's possible. Potential's likely to be there from Dresden.

EDIT: What's fascinating is that Butcher has drawn a strong correlation between size and power, at least with the Fae. We've discussed before in other threads, I think Maggie Sr spent most of her pregnancy in fast or slow time Nevernever zones to guarantee Harry would be starborn. Her own height aside, I've long wondered if Harry's near-outlier height is an expression of Butcher's Fae correlation.

[Mira]

 Just because one inherited talent it doesn't follow that the other did, example Harry and Thomas.  Thomas can do some ordinary magical things but he is no and never will be a wizard.

So just because Molly got Charity's talent, doesn't mean her brothers would.

As for Susan, we don't know anything about her family line..

Also supposedly Eb's wife, Margaret's mother, was a vanilla human, so talent can come from the male line even though it usually goes through the female.

[forumghost]

Personally I think the more interesting topic is how being exposed to a part-rampire will influence any magic she might develop.

[Ed0517]

We have never seen the White God, I suspect it may be Jim Butcher, and he doesn’t believe in free will for his subjects at all. He knows what is going to happen to Maggie, she has no choice in the matter.

TWG is hiding in those Wrigley Field parking lots Michael and Harry use.

[Ed0517]

EDIT: What's fascinating is that Butcher has drawn a strong correlation between size and power, at least with the Fae. We've discussed before in other threads, I think Maggie Sr spent most of her pregnancy in fast or slow time Nevernever zones to guarantee Harry would be starborn. Her own height aside, I've long wondered if Harry's near-outlier height is an expression of Butcher's Fae correlation.

Perhaps, but doesn't Harry's mother's spirit say something along the lines of Harry has his father's height? Maybe Harry is not unusual amongst Dresden men.  I seem to recall Bill Walton and Patrick Ewing both having sons who played in the NBA who were roughly Harry's size

[Mira]

Perhaps, but doesn't Harry's mother's spirit say something along the lines of Harry has his father's height? Maybe Harry is not unusual amongst Dresden men.  I seem to recall Bill Walton and Patrick Ewing both having sons who played in the NBA who were roughly Harry's size

Yes, and we have no clue whether or not Harry has uncles or aunts, or what his maternal grandparents looked like..  Harry's height could have come from them, also each generation
appears to have gotten taller because of nutrition and other factors.  Though admitted six foot nine is way above your average height.. Which brings up another inconsistency, Jim writes Maggie like a much younger child than she is, he often writes Harry like a much shorter man than he is.  For years he supposedly slept in a twin bed, my son at six foot seven has a hard time in a standard double be, it is almost impossible if he wife is in it with him. The other is the Blue Beetle, especially when he'd have other people in it with him..  My friend had a Beetle and my brother who was six foot eight could hardly fit in the front seat.  My son has a hard time in my Honda Element, he can just fit with the seat back as far as it will go.  There was an old advertisement for the Beetle with Wilt Chamberlain who was over seven feet, "they said it couldn't be done, and it couldn't."  He didn't fit at all.