The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
Mira:
--- Quote ---There's no reason that the two are mutually exclusive. She can be changed and still be Murphy, otherwise no characters can ever experience growth, rise or fall. We'd be on our fourth or fifth Harry by now if that was the case.
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No, you cannot be that changed and still be what you once were, except in name. Yes, you can call it character growth, but it has it's limits.
--- Quote ---Regardless of Jim placing the White God in the Almighty position, he does also acknowledge that other pantheons exist and therefore their afterlives are real in the context of the Dresdenverse. Nic's daughter is in Tartarus, by word of Hades himself. Murphy and Hendricks are in Valhalla by the word of one of Odin's valkyries. Murphy's father is in a purgatory like realm working for Uriel. This is where their souls, the core of their existence, are. It's how the Dresdenverse works.
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Yes, but each realm has it's rules, that is the point and the rule for those who are sent to Valhalla was spelled out by Gard. Who, I might point out had all the same reasons that Harry has that it be otherwise. "Not even the All Father can break it." There are cosmic rules even in the Dresdenverse.
--- Quote ---You have to accept that the author is going to tell their story, their way, using the author's canon for how things work in universe. Or you can read it under protest and be unhappy or stop reading altogether.
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Yes, as do you.. In this case the author killed off Murphy, sent her to Valhalla,a Valkyrie who knows quite a lot about it said that Murphy wasn't coming back until all memory of her has passed. She also said that was a rule that even the All Father couldn't break.. Now maybe that gives Jim wiggle room to bring Murphy back, maybe not.. But unless there is a WOJ out there saying that he is, or changes his mind, then you have to accept that she is dead, her body and soul in Valhalla and she isn't coming back until Harry and anyone else who knew her, and remembers her, is dead.
--- Quote ---The issue may be living memory and for Gard the no-fraternisation rule her employer utilises.
Gard may also be aware that Odin’s time is drawing near, she may have thought she had decades with Nathan, instead she may only see him briefly again at Ragnarok.
I wonder if because of Hendricks’ Gard will tell Harry how to make Einenjharen, so that he raises both Hendricks and Murphy tied to his life. Suddenly days and decades replaced by centuries.
I think the afterlife is dependent upon belief but can be diverted by the white gods or other power, Deidre should have gone to Lucifer, on belief but ended up with Hades.
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That won't happen because I doubt that Gard knows how or has the power to make Einenjharen, and neither does Harry.
morriswalters:
I could really care less about what god does what to who. If they took the body then they must have needed the body to put something in. And since Butcher didn't bury the body then I fully expect her to be back. So now we have to go with at least one book where Harry grieves because, boo hoo, he misses her. This is the same stew all warmed over as Susan. So now Lara can melt his heart.
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on April 20, 2022, 07:10:23 PM ---I could really care less about what god does what to who. If they took the body then they must have needed the body to put something in. And since Butcher didn't bury the body then I fully expect her to be back. So now we have to go with at least one book where Harry grieves because, boo hoo, he misses her. This is the same stew all warmed over as Susan. So now Lara can melt his heart.
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Oh didn't say Murphy wouldn't be back, but that will be sometime after the BAT.. Kind of like having it both ways, Murphy is dead, no doubt about it, bullet through her carotid artery, she bled out in Harry's arms... Her body is hauled off to Valhalla; So maybe she isn't dead. Right? Not really.
--- Quote ---What are dead Viking warriors called?
the einherjar
In Norse mythology, the einherjar (singular einheri) literally "army of one", "those who fight alone") are those who have died in battle and are brought to Valhalla by valkyries.
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Key word here, died in battle, dead.. And;
--- Quote ---Where do dead warriors go?
Valhalla
The best-known vision of the Norse afterlife is that of Valhalla, the hall of the heroes where warriors chosen by the Valkyries feast with the god Odin, tell stories from their lives, and fight each other in preparation for the final battle of Ragnarök, the end of the world and death of the gods.
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Oh, another keyword, afterlife... Who goes to an afterlife? The dead.
So, okay Jim cheated a bit, his verse, he has some of the Einherjar working for Marcone. At the same time though they don't go home to mom at night, visit their lovers or children.. Hmmm? Maybe because all those that remembered them are long dead and buried..
So, oh her body was taken ergo she will be back, but when? When all memory of her is gone.. So Jim is having it both ways, he killed her off, but because she went to Valhalla and her cold stiff dead body was taken away by one of the Valkyrie, she will be back, just long after the BAT.. And if she dies again outside of Valhalla she ends up in;
--- Quote ---In Norse mythology, Ginnungagap (Old Norse: [ˈɡinːoŋɡɑˌɡɑp]; "gaping abyss", "yawning void") is the primordial void mentioned in the Gylfaginning, ...
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So yeah, she could come back, I doubt she will be the Murphy Harry knew and loved.. And they ain't going to live happily ever after.
I don't begrudge Harry some grief and depression over all of this, that is normal.. That is why I hope that Murphy stays in Valhalla until Ragnarök, so Harry can heal and get on, because there is a lot ahead of him.. He doesn't need a repeat of what he went through with half turned Susan. Let the story move on, he has a couple of kids, is engaged to a vampire, and has to save the world at some point.
Ed0517:
--- Quote from: Mira on April 20, 2022, 02:46:12 AM ---No, Murphy is dead, she isn't even getting the reward that her Catholic Faith promised her.
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I think she gets Heaven in the end. It's just delayed. She's working off some karma in a Purgatory. It's like her father, working for Uriel in HIS Purgatory, until he is ready to face Judgement. Murphy is hired out to Vadderung, and likely had a choice to do this or face Judgement. Gonna rack up some Brownie Points first.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Ed0517 on April 21, 2022, 06:51:46 AM ---I think she gets Heaven in the end. It's just delayed. She's working off some karma in a Purgatory. It's like her father, working for Uriel in HIS Purgatory, until he is ready to face Judgement. Murphy is hired out to Vadderung, and likely had a choice to do this or face Judgement. Gonna rack up some Brownie Points first.
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That might work, and a way that Jim could cheat.. However I will bet you two wet noodles that if what you say is true, she will be there for the BAT, but not be who Harry remembers, then leave again because the object of this is to cause pain to Harry.
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