The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on April 20, 2022, 10:47:24 AM ---What points to her being Murphy? That because she died a heroic warrior and was sent to Valhalla
she will remain Murphy? Maybe that part of her, but she was a more complicated person than that.
Also as many like to say, Jim likes to make Harry and the reader suffer.. What better way to make both Harry and her fans suffer big time, but for her body to come back, but her mind totally changed..
--- End quote ---
how both Jim and Gard talk about it. This is not some sort of zombie or black court vampire construction. It is her soul in it.
There is even a woj about waking up in a different afterlife than you expect. About deals between gods about specific persons.
The whole story does not make sense if it is not Murphy. We also know Vadderung uses soulfire for this. The fires of creation as some monster called it.
I think we have some sort of Christian exceptionalism here like there is only one real afterlife and the rest is fake. From what we read in skin game Hades is real and there is no reason to assume Walhalla is not. Just like Socrates is in Hades Murphy is in walhalla.
Mira:
--- Quote ---The whole story does not make sense if it is not Murphy. We also know Vadderung uses soulfire for this. The fires of creation as some monster called it.
--- End quote ---
We know? Why doesn't the story make sense if it isn't Murphy? I could argue if she remains Murphy unchanged, it would make no sense at all. Hell, Harry has changed some and he was only mostly dead.
--- Quote ---I think we have some sort of Christian exceptionalism here like there is only one real afterlife and the rest is fake. From what we read in skin game Hades is real and there is no reason to assume Walhalla is not. Just like Socrates is in Hades Murphy is in walhalla.
--- End quote ---
Jim has always tip toed on a tightrope here about religion from the very beginning. Yes, he includes gods, goddesses, fairies, Hades, the Nevernever, but interesting though Mab calls Him, "the White God," and that has been picked up on this site, Harry in the books always calls Him, "the Almighty," always with a capital "G,H, or A." Still all the gods have their rules that are not to be violated.. Hades has his rules about the Artifacts, and he obeys them. Mab has her rules governing Fae behavior, even she cannot cross them.
When Gard says the rule governing those that go to Valhalla is a rule "that even the All Father, Odin a.k.a. Vadderung cannot break." She means it, it has nothing to do with whether or not Odin/Vadderung can use Soul Fire to do it, yes, he could, but the rule is he cannot.. Not without cosmic consequences. To me at any rate the story would make a heck of a lot more sense if Murphy went to work with her father for Uriel, Harry might see her once in a while, she remains Murphy.. Odin breaking ALL his rules so she could come back in body and mind to Harry before all memory of her has passed just so they can cuddle again, and basically that would be the only reason, would be tripe.. Her being Super Woman was getting old, it ignored everything that I originally liked the character for. In the early books she was a good smart cop, a good shot, etc, but she had limits. She was a vanilla human, a strong liberated woman, but human. However by her demise she was more of a comic book super woman like character, severe injury, totally ignored, remove that cast, toss a Valkyrie on her ear, ride a motorcycle, with the wisdom of Solomon and the bravery of Audie Murphy... Bringing her back as one of the undying, unchanged? No thank you, that is why she had to be killed off, and she should remain dead.
Arjan:
And why would she not remain Murphy with Vadderung and would sh remain Murphy with Uriel? Maybe she is with Vadderung precisely because it fits her personality better.
But change is not the point. Everything and everyone changes. Harry changes and Murphy’s father is still changing. But it is changing and also being who you are.
Bringing her back is theoretically possible in the dresdenverse just like bringing anyone back is possible but I do not think it will happen. The gods tend to keep the souls they collected.
vincentric:
--- Quote from: Mira on April 20, 2022, 03:44:25 PM ---We know? Why doesn't the story make sense if it isn't Murphy? I could argue if she remains Murphy unchanged, it would make no sense at all. Hell, Harry has changed some and he was only mostly dead.
Jim has always tip toed on a tightrope here about religion from the very beginning. Yes, he includes gods, goddesses, fairies, Hades, the Nevernever, but interesting though Mab calls Him, "the White God," and that has been picked up on this site, Harry in the books always calls Him, "the Almighty," always with a capital "G,H, or A." Still all the gods have their rules that are not to be violated.. Hades has his rules about the Artifacts, and he obeys them. Mab has her rules governing Fae behavior, even she cannot cross them.
When Gard says the rule governing those that go to Valhalla is a rule "that even the All Father, Odin a.k.a. Vadderung cannot break." She means it, it has nothing to do with whether or not Odin/Vadderung can use Soul Fire to do it, yes, he could, but the rule is he cannot.. Not without cosmic consequences. To me at any rate the story would make a heck of a lot more sense if Murphy went to work with her father for Uriel, Harry might see her once in a while, she remains Murphy.. Odin breaking ALL his rules so she could come back in body and mind to Harry before all memory of her has passed just so they can cuddle again, and basically that would be the only reason, would be tripe.. Her being Super Woman was getting old, it ignored everything that I originally liked the character for. In the early books she was a good smart cop, a good shot, etc, but she had limits. She was a vanilla human, a strong liberated woman, but human. However by her demise she was more of a comic book super woman like character, severe injury, totally ignored, remove that cast, toss a Valkyrie on her ear, ride a motorcycle, with the wisdom of Solomon and the bravery of Audie Murphy... Bringing her back as one of the undying, unchanged? No thank you, that is why she had to be killed off, and she should remain dead.
--- End quote ---
There's no reason that the two are mutually exclusive. She can be changed and still be Murphy, otherwise no characters can ever experience growth, rise or fall. We'd be on our fourth or fifth Harry by now if that was the case.
Regardless of Jim placing the White God in the Almighty position, he does also acknowledge that other pantheons exist and therefore their afterlives are real in the context of the Dresdenverse. Nic's daughter is in Tartarus, by word of Hades himself. Murphy and Hendricks are in Valhalla by the word of one of Odin's valkyries. Murphy's father is in a purgatory like realm working for Uriel. This is where their souls, the core of their existence, are. It's how the Dresdenverse works.
You have to accept that the author is going to tell their story, their way, using the author's canon for how things work in universe. Or you can read it under protest and be unhappy or stop reading altogether.
Conspiracy Theorist:
The issue may be living memory and for Gard the no-fraternisation rule her employer utilises.
Gard may also be aware that Odin’s time is drawing near, she may have thought she had decades with Nathan, instead she may only see him briefly again at Ragnarok.
I wonder if because of Hendricks’ Gard will tell Harry how to make Einenjharen, so that he raises both Hendricks and Murphy tied to his life. Suddenly days and decades replaced by centuries.
I think the afterlife is dependent upon belief but can be diverted by the white gods or other power, Deidre should have gone to Lucifer, on belief but ended up with Hades.
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