The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
g33k:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on April 10, 2022, 02:18:22 PM --- There is no indication in the text that anyone other than a Shadow can summon a coin.
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A "Shadow" isn't an "anyone" -- they need to work within the abilities of the host, adding only their Fallen knowledge. The Church's inability to keep hold of any of the Coins suggests that some may be being summoned out from their hiding places (sure, there is corruption and some people are releasing the Coins who shouldn't; but the problem is so ubiquitous and long-term, I think Coin-summoning is a component).
It's possible that any given Fallen can summon any Denarius, if the Fallen in that coin is willing to be summoned (they gotta be willing; otherwise, it'd be the go-to tactic in their incessant internecine squabbling) .
--- Quote from: morriswalters on April 10, 2022, 02:18:22 PM --- ... Michael tells you that the only way to rid yourself of the Fallen is to take up the coin, accept the Fallen and then put the coin down ...
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We know that the Denarians periodically raid the Church to destroy records concerning themselves, and Harry himself points out in that same conversation how Michael can't possibly "know" these sorts of limitations; he may in fact be correct, but he may also be mistaken.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on April 10, 2022, 02:18:22 PM --- ... Harry was a special case in that she was burned out of his brain ...
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And yet, the real Lasciel seemed to know about Bonea, which suggests that a Shadow's destruction within a wizard's mind is a known phenomenon. Also, I think there was a WoJ saying that Bob was created the same way as Bonea.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on April 10, 2022, 02:18:22 PM --- ... Lash can effect physical reality. She gave Harry access to Hellfire. Nicodemus also assumes that she can paralyze Harry and tells her to do so in Small Favor. If Harry were unprepared she could make him do anything by executing a man in the middle attack where she feeds Harry the reality that she wants him to see ...
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A Shadow is limited entirely to "acting" through their host; for example, manipulating their perceptions, nudging their subconscious, etc. Getting the host to act. But also, overtly convincing the host.
Hellfire, like Soulfire, is something humans -- wizards, that is -- can all access. They just have to be shown how. The Shadow snuck it in through Harry's subconscious; he never consciously learned, it just "showed up." Uriel "jostled" Harry's spell-casting; nudged it into a slightly-different channel, which showed him how to do it for himself.
Conspiracy Theorist:
--- Quote from: g33k on April 10, 2022, 08:11:22 AM ---We know that power & experience & aptitude all matter, in such things. Time and again, Harry is impressed at how smoothly others open Ways. He could barely even notice when Lily opened the Way to Arctis Tor; she certainly had less experience than Harry... but the Mantle gave her plenty of power and aptitude!
And we know that Angels -- fallen or not -- have power on a scale to dwarf the entire White Council, and experience to match. Imariel certainly has some sorts of aptitudes, and demesne filled with horrific little bugs sounds right up his alley!
If nothing else, they could cast a "there is no gateway here" veil, to mask what they're doing; remember Elaine's veil, in White Knight: "there is nothing worth noticing or remembering about the person sitting here." Again, well within the DV canon, and the scope of Fallen powers...
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And yet Nick borrowed Harry specifically to open a gateway.
Bob was created in a similar way but not a Fallen as a parent. His origin of what we know is from Winter, the closest match to someone like Lasciel is the Leansidhe who traditionally acts as a muse gifting creative insight to young men which ends in their early death. She may create the equivalent of the shadow to do that, the early death may be due to trying to give birth to a spirit of intellect. I suspect not all are strong enough to survive both, dying with their parent. Some are strong enough to rip a way out.
We have been told in a WOJ that we have met both Bob’s parents, and Bob’s reaction to Lea is like an overexcited toddler, at a time when his is hiding from Winter. Lea would have had the knowledge how to kill an immortal which Bob would have inherited.
Bob’s “mom” we have also met so they survived that birth so a wizard is a possibility and there are few wizard characters that age, the Gatekeeper certainly and the British Prisoner probably. I favour the latter, (Demonreach may be the only way to escape his ex) but what if Rashid gave up his eye to allow Bob to egress his head?
Similar and same are not the same thing.
forumghost:
--- Quote from: g33k on April 10, 2022, 10:37:33 PM ---And yet, the real Lasciel seemed to know about Bonea, which suggests that a Shadow's destruction within a wizard's mind is a known phenomenon. Also, I think there was a WoJ saying that Bob was created the same way as Bonea.
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Wasn't that because Harry told Murphy about her when Nick was listening in?
Ed0517:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on April 10, 2022, 02:18:22 PM ---
Could the old whats his name have escaped by opening a portal underneath the block. Sure, Butcher does something similar in the fight in the Goblin's domain when he drops rock ectoplasm into the real world to escape being crushed during his fight. In theory so could have Lasciel and Hannah. It's mentioned in the text as a possibility.But it feels like a cheat since old Nicky had to sneak out through Dresden's portal. It also makes a farce of the vault as a plot gimmick.
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Maybe Ascher is bad at portals. Remember Harry was real bad at veils until he retrained himself to teach Molly, and even then he was not that good. He told Charity some practitioners are better than others at some things. Molly, almost from the start, was better at mind magic and veils are likely clouding the mind.. and in ghost Story she says it would be much easier defending Chicago if she had Harry's raw power to just kill creatures and break things. Granted, we did not SEE her squashed/burned body, but...
Mira:
--- Quote from: forumghost on April 11, 2022, 01:45:41 AM ---Wasn't that because Harry told Murphy about her when Nick was listening in?
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More than likely, also we don't know exactly when the Shadow of Lasciel got it on with Harry's alter ego. Up until her complete break, which was just at the end when she sacrificed herself for Harry, Lash was still in contact with the coin. Let's not forget her final try to get Harry to accept the coin in White Night, so Lasciel would have known about the sex, most likely encouraged it, and yes, knew about the pregnancy as well.
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