The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
Conspiracy Theorist:
I hadn’t forgotten the summoning of the coin, Cassius repudiation wasn’t sincere like Sanya’s, and I suspect he would have tried to summon it. However his Fallen may have had other ideas, it may have been tired of Snakeboy, a low talent loser, and looking forward to a new host. It knew it was going to the Vatican meaning it would be back in circulation. I suspect his Fallen withdrew his shadow as the coin was being dropped, meaning Cassius couldn’t summon it. Snakeboy had embarrassed his Denarian and pride goeth before a Fall.
Shadows are involuntary Harry got it without agreement as would have Harry Carpenter, but up until loss of contact a Fallen can withdraw it. In Sanya’s case in dropping his coin there was no shadow. This was why Michael was so convinced Harry had to put aside his power, so Harry became worthless to the Denarian (in light of the whole Starborn thing I doubt that was the case, Michael was wrong).
Powerful as regards direct effect versus indirect effect Lash couldn’t have any effect outside of Harry’s head, inside it though she was powerful, saving Harry’s life numerous times, but unable to heal him. She could pull the equivalent of the Winter Knight ‘healing’ but that was it.
No sign of gateway to the Never Never when the transformation occurs.
Conspiracy Theorist:
--- Quote from: Ed0517 on April 10, 2022, 06:32:19 AM ---I don't think being in contact with your coin is foolproof - Eldest Gruff took out Magog still holding his coin, and his head on, and didn't several drown in the aquarium when Harry blasted the glass? They were not separated from their coins that we know of until they died.
Question on the Wendigo - if you lure it into a circle and activate.... the ectoplasm turns to goop, right? Have we seen evidence a Forest People can possess anything? They have been resistant to magic, but how much have we seen them USE it? They may be so resistant they cannot manipulate it. Maybe it is a spirit and ALL ectoplasm? If so, Harry goes and sees Forthill, and comes out with the SuperSoaker of Doom.... 1 squirt banishes the ghost and dispels the ectoplasm...
--- End quote ---
I didn’t say it was foolproof, the Fallen rely upon their mortal hosts for decisions, sometimes they panic and make poor decisions. Sometimes the Fallen may decide its time to end that particular partnership. They know a new host will present in short order.
Blood isn’t a forest person, he’s a Genowskwa, and yes he used veils extensively through Skin Game, so he can use magic. As such he should be able to do anything a human wizard can do and Corpsetaker could certainly pull off a possession.
Knowing what Blood is would be the puzzle and how to deal with it. Trapping him in a circle would only work if he tried to exit it, and probably not then if he limited himself physically to his human host, no ectoplasm.
The Sword of Faith would be a better solution able to inflict harm on Blood, but not his host. Ironically Blood is the Denarian in such a relationship but not tethered by a coin.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on April 10, 2022, 07:49:12 AM --- No sign of gateway to the Never Never when the transformation occurs.
--- End quote ---
We know that power & experience & aptitude all matter, in such things. Time and again, Harry is impressed at how smoothly others open Ways. He could barely even notice when Lily opened the Way to Arctis Tor; she certainly had less experience than Harry... but the Mantle gave her plenty of power and aptitude!
And we know that Angels -- fallen or not -- have power on a scale to dwarf the entire White Council, and experience to match. Imariel certainly has some sorts of aptitudes, and demesne filled with horrific little bugs sounds right up his alley!
If nothing else, they could cast a "there is no gateway here" veil, to mask what they're doing; remember Elaine's veil, in White Knight: "there is nothing worth noticing or remembering about the person sitting here." Again, well within the DV canon, and the scope of Fallen powers...
morriswalters:
There is no indication in the text that anyone other than a Shadow can summon a coin. Lash expected to be reabsorbed into Lasciel and feared that she would not take her back. Michael tells you that the only way to rid yourself of the Fallen is to take up the coin, accept the Fallen and then put the coin down. Accepting the Fallen removes the Shadow. Harry was a special case in that she was burned out of his brain. Or so it seems.
Lash can effect physical reality. She gave Harry access to Hellfire. Nicodemus also assumes that she can paralyze Harry and tells her to do so in Small Favor. If Harry were unprepared she could make him do anything by executing a man in the middle attack where she feeds Harry the reality that she wants him to see. I suspect that this is the way LC was broken.
We know that Nicodemus's belief is founded in reality because Bonea takes takes control over Harry's autonomic nervous system to support his body while he is on a walkabout.
Could the old whats his name have escaped by opening a portal underneath the block. Sure, Butcher does something similar in the fight in the Goblin's domain when he drops rock ectoplasm into the real world to escape being crushed during his fight. In theory so could have Lasciel and Hannah. It's mentioned in the text as a possibility.
--- Quote ---“I figure Nicodemus had Lasciel and Ascher as his backup Way home,” I said. Ascher had been throwing Hellfire around. With a couple of weeks’ training from a good teacher, say a Fallen angel who could provide her with images and communicate directly in thought, she might have enough talent to learn how to manage a Way—but probably not from inside several hundred tons of molten rock. “Maybe the Genoskwa could have done it. But they’re out. That leaves one way for him to get back.”
Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 400). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
--- End quote ---
But it feels like a cheat since old Nicky had to sneak out through Dresden's portal. It also makes a farce of the vault as a plot gimmick.
Mira:
--- Quote ---There is no indication in the text that anyone other than a Shadow can summon a coin. Lash expected to be reabsorbed into Lasciel and feared that she would not take her back. Michael tells you that the only way to rid yourself of the Fallen is to take up the coin, accept the Fallen and then put the coin down. Accepting the Fallen removes the Shadow. Harry was a special case in that she was burned out of his brain. Or so it seems.
--- End quote ---
Not quite, Harry actually changed the Shadow of Lasciel into Lash, or by knowing him and falling in love, she changed. Then she willingly sacrificed herself to save Harry, it was a struggle to the end if you will recall. Lash begged Harry to save himself by taking the coin, he refused in the name of freedom among other things. In the end she agreed and gained her own freedom in death. That is why Harry is so unique and why he attracted the attention of Heaven and got soul fire, something like that had never happened before.
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