Author Topic: Some observations on a Winter Day  (Read 3548 times)

Offline morriswalters

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Some observations on a Winter Day
« on: February 08, 2022, 02:50:44 PM »
Who chained the doors at Pell's Theater?

Rashid did it for Mab. How do we infer this? If Mab created the path for Harry to get to Arctis Tor then a mortal ally of Mab had to do it. And only Mab would have cared about keeping mortals out of the building. Rashid had both the "ways" and the means.

Who was Sandra Marling?

Maeve. How do we infer this? Butcher does a specific call back when he has Maeve summoned to Mac's by Lilly.  He reminds the reader that Jenny Greenteeth could impersonate a human well enough to convince Will  she was Georgia. Jenny Greenteeth is killed prior to PG by the Alphas in Something Borrowed. Harry uses this to blackmail Maeve.

If you need another clue bat from Butcher to help you get to this point, in Cold Days he has Lady Molly seen using a cell phone.

Enough for today.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2022, 04:09:09 PM »
Pell’s old creepyhorror movie theatre may have been a congruency to where the phobophages dwell in Winter, near Arctis Tor, no need to create a route, one existed already. Nice and near to Mab’s ice dungeon in Arctis Tor and a possible congruency to Demonreach.

Mab or Maeve could not have chained it, an iron or steel chain and padlock, her mortal agent normally is the Winter Knight, but Lloyd Slate was at this point otherwise engaged (learning about the art of scrimshaw from Lacuna) but Rashid yes, an indicator that this is a stop in the journey to Demonreach which Rashid does indeed know how to get to.

Sandra Marling? Nope. More likely a White Court hanger on, she was able to get Darby Crane as GOH after all for a first time Convention, you only get a GOH in those circumstances if the Chair knows the GOH, likely offering up a gourmet all you can eat buffet to a fear vampire.

Have you run a Convention? Maeve didn’t have her shit together to run her duties as the Winter Lady, I doubt she could run a Convention (Molly did both foreshadowing her organisational skills as Winter Lady). The Jenny Greenteeth thing is much more Her style

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2022, 05:36:07 PM »
Possible, but leaves you having to explain why their were fetches in the theater and why it was locked. 

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2022, 10:22:30 PM »
Because they had come out their and the chain wasn’t to keep people out, it was to keep the Fetches in until they were needed.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2022, 12:41:39 AM »
Where were they waiting to go?

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2022, 12:10:21 PM »
They could come and go, but unless the doors were unchained they were stuck. Thomas could enter/egress the Never Never through strip clubs, Darby Crane could likely do the same in Pell’s Theatre just like the Fetches, but not be affected by the iron. He would know this was an access point he could use.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2022, 12:24:34 PM »
Given that Madrigal was meant to die that seems a stretch.

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2022, 12:44:44 PM »
Given that Madrigal was meant to die that seems a stretch.

He didn’t know that. Splattercon was being manipulated by a couple of elements within the Winter Court, Mab and Maeves people. Molly got on Mab’s radar opening options for replacement of Marve, and Mab was still after Harry as Winter Knight, Molly as potential leverage.

Maeve was looking to facilitate the Black Council in their attempt to retrieve Lea/scout the backdoor to Demonreach. Darby was a stalking horse, cover for Maeve. The Black Council at this point already had their hooks into in the White Court and used them mercilessly.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2022, 02:48:56 PM »
My speculation is that Madrigal was a big ugly brass door knocker whose purpose was to get the WC back to Chicago.  Harry was meant to kill him. They almost fight in the hotel the first time they meet.

Given the events of Turn Coat it would be a good guess to say that Peabody(Black Council) was the source of the idea to have the first trial in Chicago. Harry had a violent reaction to the killing of the warlock. Now imagine Molly being dragged in with no warning.  This is what I suspect the plan was. Harry then dies at the hands of the Senior Council, but maybe gets lucky before that and takes out the Merlin before dying. It's how I would construct the plot.

Uriel has to be involved in the plot.  Michael is moved out of Chicago. Why? Because he can't save his daughter since she has done Black Magic.  Harry can, if he has the time.  The plot is designed to give him the time. This is point out in the narrative by Rashid's actions at the second trial.

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2022, 03:06:47 PM »
But Michael is back in time to save his daughter and with the baby Wardens and Eb in tow, definitely Uriel’s work.

If the Black Council had a rogue Denarian on it then they would have known Molly was Michaels daughter, so the Molly plot was aimed both at Harry and Michael, remove the longest serving Knight from the board together with  the pain in ass wizard from Chicago in one go.

We only see Harry’s adventures, it’s is likely Michael had himself previously been a considerable thorn in the Black Council’s side. Could Siriothrax have been Black Council? His death an earlier attempt to corrupt a sword? Ruined by Michael and Charity falling in love? Inviting Ferro to the party in Grave Peril in the anticipation Harry would bring Michael could have been an earlier attempt to take out Michael. They had the Sword at that point. Michael however struck exactly the right note with Ferro destroying that plot.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2022, 09:46:06 PM »
Yes and no. Without Harry Molly would have died. Michael couldn't have changed that. To save Molly you first had to save Harry. Other then getting him out of Chicago until he could solve the mystery there is no reason for Harry to go to Arctis Tor.

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2022, 12:14:30 AM »
Mab wasn’t going to kill Molly, only the White Council were interested in killing her as a Warlock.

To be blunt, Her abduction was saving her from the known attention of the White Council, in hindsight Harry was warned of a Warlock in Chicago by the Gatekeeper who we only subsequently found out was in league with Mab. The Gatekeeper surveyed the possible futures and nudged events towards the desired future of Harry apprenticed to Molly (see the Molly soul Gaze)

The Gatekeeper senses a Warlock, is prescient about her role in future events, alerts Harry and ropes in Mab to keep her safe by abducting her with indication of a new Winter Lady candidate, until Harry can collect her and take her to the White Council where their co-conspirator Uriel has arranged Michael to come out as the saviour of the Baby Wizards, just when they are ready to execute Molly.

It’s the Gatekeeper manipulating events so Harry gains Molly as an apprentice, who will eventually replace Maeve as Winter Lady, which is also vital to both Mab and Uriel’s future plans. There were absolutely no coincidences.

In tandem to this you have Crane/Madrigal setting up Splattercon as his own buffet, and opening the backdoor to Arctis Tor, the Convention and attacks would firm up the link to the Fetches abode in the Never Never in Pell’s theatre, allowing the Black Council to use it to ‘rescue’ Lea/ survey the Backdoor to Demonreach in Mab’s Ice Dungeon. We have to presume Mab was aware of an attack by the Black Council, what surprised her was the Denarian involvement.

It’s clear The Gatekeeper, Mab and Uriel (Plus Vadderung and Hades) have been working together throughout the entirety of the Files. We only really see this from the end of Ghost Story onwards.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2022, 01:30:12 AM »
Rashid never looked into the future.  He never needed to.  Molly was set up a year in advance. Proven Guilty actually begins in Dead Beat when Jim sets the time that Arctis Tor was attacked.  Shortly thereafter Molly is arrested and put in diversion and starts  working at the halfway house with Sandra Marling where she meets Nelson and Rosie.  About two weeks before the start of PG Sandra Marling gives Molly the idea of using fear and Molly mind rapes both Nelson and Rosie. She has, 10 days before the book begins, broken one of the Laws.  If she is caught before Harry can figure it out they will both die. The last event happens just before the first trial.  Pell is attacked and Nelson is arrested. After that at some point Pell's theater is locked and the first trial opens the book.  Rashid is not present. This is the setup for Proven Guilty.

How did Rashid know that Black Magic had been used by Molly?
Why was Pell attacked and who ordered it?

Offline seanham

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2022, 10:57:55 PM »
In tandem to this you have Crane/Madrigal setting up Splattercon as his own buffet, and opening the backdoor to Arctis Tor, the Convention and attacks would firm up the link to the Fetches abode in the Never Never in Pell’s theatre, allowing the Black Council to use it to ‘rescue’ Lea/ survey the Backdoor to Demonreach in Mab’s Ice Dungeon. We have to presume Mab was aware of an attack by the Black Council, what surprised her was the Denarian involvement.

What Backdoor to Demonreach is in Arctis Tour?

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Re: Some observations on a Winter Day
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2022, 11:17:10 PM »
One of my (Many) theories is that Demonreach backs onto Mab’s ice Sculpture Dungeon in Arctis Tor. Both keep prisoners in stasis in a fortress. It’s a better fit than Tartarus, and the connection between Merlin and Mab makes this more likely.

It explains why most people won’t use this route, the only two people who have were Rashid and Maeve, who both would have or had access. The attack on Arctis Tor was in part to reconnoiter this route. Mab doesn’t use this route because she knows how dangerous the Demonreach end of the route is, she wouldn’t step on the island from a yacht  so appearing suddenly from the Never Never would concern her. Alfred can clearly take her down, and until more recently so would Harry.

This opens up a possibility of a congruency existing between Castle Dresden and the Winter Knights Quarters in Arctis Tor, creating a route from Castle Dresden to the Winter Knights quarters via the Never Never a quick bit of parkour to the ice dungeon  and then from the Never Never to Demonreach. A nice secure quick route for Harry. I would hope Next Book establishes something like this now Harry is on better terms with Mab.