The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Could the Za Lord's Guard defeat the White Council AND KotC Ways travel?
Conspiracy Theorist:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on January 07, 2022, 06:57:12 AM ---Really?
--- End quote ---
Ask Aurora. Oh wait.
The Knights have no way to access or egress the NeverNever, Michael had to leave with Thomas which mean’t coming out at a strip club (I shudder to think what was on the other side). What Mab can do is provide that, allow the Swords to cut a gateway into and out of the Never Never. The crystal allows them to navigate in the NeverNever.
morriswalters:
I understood the mechanism, I was questioning the 80 or 90 percent of the wizards that would die. Seems a little blood thirsty. And would validate their fears, unless you are stating what is possible versus any desire of anybody to do such a thing. And I'm not sure that they would obey any such order.
The Knight's fight is here on earth, they don't need to fight anyone in the never never. They can go anywhere on earth on any available form of transit. If they need fast travel Uriel would make a deal with Mab or create an entirely new form of point to point fast travel utilizing some other method. The danger in the never never, outweighs the utility of travel in that space IMO.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Actually Uriel can’t make a deal as he can’t be involved in mortal affairs as it would impinge upon free will, he would have to wait until Mab owed a Knight a suitable favour..... or the balance was upset, the thing about the White God is that this is exactly what he has been working to as part of his effing plan. It’s like Butters turning up to save Harry in Dead Beat from Cassius, an incipient knight defeating a former Denarian Uriel can only do the most indirect of power plays.
morriswalters:
Well, it's your book when you read it, but Uriel bends the rules when it suits him. In Proven Guilty how did Michael got to where he needed to be, at the trial? He had a portal available when he needed it. Again in Changes Sanya is where he needs to be to walk the ways with Harry. If the Knight's need to walk the ways, then they will walk the ways.
Bonus question. Why did Uriel move Michael at all?
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on January 07, 2022, 06:33:57 PM ---Ask Aurora. Oh wait.
The Knights have no way to access or egress the NeverNever, Michael had to leave with Thomas which mean’t coming out at a strip club (I shudder to think what was on the other side). What Mab can do is provide that, allow the Swords to cut a gateway into and out of the Never Never. The crystal allows them to navigate in the NeverNever.
--- End quote ---
I believe it was just Faerie that was on the other side of the strip club. Thomas can only emerge in places close to him (as in, related to the sex vampire thing). But it doesn't mean he needs to go to another realm or whatever just to emerge from the Never never into the mortal world. He is just limited in where he comes out, not so much in where he has to go in order to get out. The relationship between a physical location on Earth and the Never never is complex and unfixed, nowhere just lines up with a singular location in the Never never. I suspect in theory, if someone's will were strong enough and their magic strong enough and good enough, you could go from anywhere in the mortal world to anywhere in the Never Never...not that you necessarily would want to.
I honestly am not so sure Mab could even do such a thing, even if she wanted to. I doubt she could alter the Swords much at all beyond trying to unmake them...but in the right circumstances perhaps she could grant upgrades. But part of opening ways isn't just power, it's about will. Intention. You have to be able to connect the place you are with where you want to go. So even if she could grant such property to the Swords, I don't know that the Knights would be able to use it effectively, if at all.
The biggest advantage the Crystal provides is knowledge of safe pathways, and/or expedient ones. There are many roads to the same destination, but some are far more dangerous and some far easier to manage, some quicker and some less so - so it's combining the knowledge of safety and expediency that provides the real value. It amounts to having google maps for the Ways essentially.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on January 07, 2022, 08:14:04 PM ---I understood the mechanism, I was questioning the 80 or 90 percent of the wizards that would die. Seems a little blood thirsty. And would validate their fears, unless you are stating what is possible versus any desire of anybody to do such a thing. And I'm not sure that they would obey any such order.
The Knight's fight is here on earth, they don't need to fight anyone in the never never. They can go anywhere on earth on any available form of transit. If they need fast travel Uriel would make a deal with Mab or create an entirely new form of point to point fast travel utilizing some other method. The danger in the never never, outweighs the utility of travel in that space IMO.
--- End quote ---
I agree with most of that.
I am not so sure they don't need to fight anyone in the Never never. One of the theories going around is Michael killed his Dragon in the Never never (hence solving why Harry states the last time a Dragon died in the mortal world was in Tunguska when we know that Michael killed Siriothrax).
But as you say, if they need to go there or use the Ways they just...will. That's one of the perks of being a Knight of the Cross. The Lord works in mysterious ways, one of which is providing whatever travel his agents require to ensure they are wherever they are meant to be. So one time it's a plane, or a car, or a wizard friend who can open Ways.
Considering what we've seen of how the Knights get their orders, I don't think they choose how to get wherever they are going. TWG lays down his breadcrumb trail and they follow it.
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on January 07, 2022, 10:14:16 PM ---Actually Uriel can’t make a deal as he can’t be involved in mortal affairs as it would impinge upon free will, he would have to wait until Mab owed a Knight a suitable favour..... or the balance was upset, the thing about the White God is that this is exactly what he has been working to as part of his effing plan. It’s like Butters turning up to save Harry in Dead Beat from Cassius, an incipient knight defeating a former Denarian Uriel can only do the most indirect of power plays.
--- End quote ---
I don't know about that...he meets Vadderung for lunch once a year. It's implied in the vignette "The Good People" that he and Uriel have a deal around Christmas. So I would say Uriel has some leeway around deals. He clearly also had a deal with Mab and Demonreach in Ghost Story as well, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to do his little excursion/lesson with Harry.
Angels do have some free will, otherwise they couldn't have Fallen - at least in this series. Uriel has also shown (such as in Skin Game) that he is quite the master of utilising what little he has to achieve his ends. As Morris points out, things are often arranged for the Knights, and if Uriel is involved he must have some ability to do that that doesn't break mortal free will.
My guess is that as long as he is working within whatever mortal choices have lead to that moment, he can do what he likes, insofar that it doesn't compromise any other free will. Which would be insanely tricky, but that's why he is what he is, why he is who he is.
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