The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Peace Talks interesting things and questions
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 05, 2022, 03:45:52 AM ---Perhaps, but Nemesis has also found out that it isn't all that easy as well. In Cold Days they tried both a direct approach along with an infected Winter Lady and a corrupted Summer Lady, though Maeve, got on the Island, and they failed. I guess you could say the Island got lucky that time, but now the Warden understands how it's defenses work, and they are fully engaged. That is why they tried a more subtle approach with Justine, and it is possible if Harry had been totally fooled and she did succeed in entering the area where Thomas is being held it would have ended as you suggest. But Harry wasn't fooled, it was close, but he wasn't fooled perhaps the reason being he is starborn and saw through it. None of this answers the question as to why the Senior Council is so resistant to the Island having a Warden? As pointed out, it seems rather critical that is does. Alfred is good, but to me he doesn't appear to have free choice, he craves guidance.
--- End quote ---
In the other thread Mira, I answer why the Council (specifically Senior Council don't have a Warden on Demonreach). Basically, they believe anyone who takes it is the Voldemort of Dresdenverse. Kemmler did, and they spent a lot of time keeping him off the Island after that. Only someone really crazy or foolish would take that mantle, that job...oh wait.
Nemesis clearly doesn't work like normal beings. It isn't a planner. It's like Jack Sparrow or the Joker. You're never quite sure what is planned and what is just chaos for chaos' sake.
And yes, Alfred isn't mortal so now free will. He needs a mortal to work with him. But then again...he can just be the prison too. He's like a big AI.
Mira:
--- Quote ---In the other thread Mira, I answer why the Council (specifically Senior Council don't have a Warden on Demonreach). Basically, they believe anyone who takes it is the Voldemort of Dresdenverse. Kemmler did, and they spent a lot of time keeping him off the Island after that. Only someone really crazy or foolish would take that mantle, that job...oh wait.
--- End quote ---
That is the ignorance, of the White Council, they made a poor choice in Kemmler, most likely his tendencies were already there before he was chosen for the job. Many still cannot believe that Justin went warlock because he was once a Warden of the White Council. Alfred still needs a supervisor, proof of that is all would have been lost in Battleground if he didn't have one.
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 05, 2022, 12:12:49 PM ---That is the ignorance, of the White Council, they made a poor choice in Kemmler, most likely his tendencies were already there before he was chosen for the job. Many still cannot believe that Justin went warlock because he was once a Warden of the White Council. Alfred still needs a supervisor, proof of that is all would have been lost in Battleground if he didn't have one.
--- End quote ---
I don't think they did choose Kemmler. As far as I know, he wasn't even on the White Council. I think he just did what Harry did (i.e. he just went and claimed it) and once they realised they did their level best to stop him getting back on the Island (and seemingly succeeded).
I don't think the White Council had any say in Kemmler being Warden, partially because they didn't even know he was going to take the role.
Justin, while a fallen wizard, was no Kemmler (unless some of those Kemmler/Justin theories turn out to be true). Kemmler took on the entire White Council, and quite likely several other supernatural nations, and very nearly won. And may not even be permanently dead (if such a thing is possible in the Dresden Files). Hell, he might already be back for all we know.
The curious thing is about Battle Ground, is that if Ethniu had rocked up to another city (I know, seems impossible in the Dresden Files), how would they have stopped her? My guess is there are other ways, Demonreach simply provided the best option. Obviously, it also worked for the book. But Vadderung and Mab are pretty crafty, and I get the impression that the White Council at some point have taken on gods, not to mention the Svartalves (who were well respected by the Aesir in the myths).
Alfred needs a supervisor in order to capture beings. But he doesn't need one to keep things off the Island entirely. The Maeve/Lily play worked partially because they airdropped into the Circle, and partially because they were Faeries and have a connection to Earth spirits. Clearly He Who Walks Before couldn't just do that, otherwise he wouldn't have wasted his energies on the shore. Hell, despite the Naaglooshii being on the Island he was no real threat to Demonreach at all and was allowed to be on the Island despite being clearly told he couldn't actually enter the prison.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Alfred needs a supervisor in order to capture beings. But he doesn't need one to keep things off the Island entirely. The Maeve/Lily play worked partially because they airdropped into the Circle, and partially because they were Faeries and have a connection to Earth spirits. Clearly He Who Walks Before couldn't just do that, otherwise he wouldn't have wasted his energies on the shore. Hell, despite the Naaglooshii being on the Island he was no real threat to Demonreach at all and was allowed to be on the Island despite being clearly told he couldn't actually enter the prison.
--- End quote ---
I don't think that is totally true. In the past people did manage for a while at least to settle there, there are ruins. Now with the means of "bad vibs" for lack of a better word, after a while Alfred got rid of them, however they still were there and could have done mischief. The Denarians got on to the Island with no trouble and Namshiel certianly could have done lots of damage if he felt it was worth his while to do it. I wouldn't be shocked if he was perfectly aware that Alfred and the prison were there, it just didn't serve his purpose to mess with it at that time. Finally and most importantly at the beginning of Skin Game, Harry mentions that one of the things he had been learning that past year, is how to deploy the Island defenses, which if I remember correctly [I've only had one or two swallows of coffee] hadn't been deployed as they should have been for some time. That could have been the main reason why Maeve and Company had been able to drop in by air in the first place, alone, Alfred wasn't able to fully deploy the Island defenses.
Now that I've had my coffee and had time to wake up and look it up. ::) Page 6 Skin Game, bolding mine;
--- Quote ---I'd spent the last year acquainting myself with the island's secrets, with the defenses that I hadn't even known existed---defenses that could be activated only by the Warden. If the Walker tried that play again, I could shut him down single-handed. Even Mab, as powerful as she was, would be well-advised to be cautious if she decided to start trouble on Demonreach's soil.
--- End quote ---
There you have it, without a Warden, the Island was vulnerable, or I should say some had some vulnerabilities.. Apparently Maeve and Company knew that, that is why they chose the time and the manner of their attack in Cold Days. While yes, in Cold Days Harry was the Warden, but because of his recovery time etc from injury, he hadn't been on the Island long enough to fully understand what the job entailed, or how to do his new job. Heck, until he came back to the Island in Cold Days with Bob, he didn't even know it was a maximum security prison. Maeve, would also have known that, that is why they attacked when they did.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Mab calculated that if she held the Peace Talks on the summer solstice (her weakest day) it would draw out the Fomor and whoever was behind them. She may have suspected Ethnui as a major unaccounted for power if so Chicago was a logical place just in case someone like Ethnui turned up, because of Demonreach and Harry. The Fomor were very confident suggesting they thought they could easily win, and if it was Ethnui she would fall for the trap due to her emotional nature and overconfidence. Ethnui couldn’t help attacking at Mab’s big event.
Mab had arms caches in place for years in Chicago so she had be expecting trouble if she held an event there.
Basically she rigged the game, just like she usually does.
Ethnui may have been a worst case scenario, for Harry it was business as normal.
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