The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

What Should Butters Ask For?

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Yuillegan:
I think it's probably smart not to be involved with a Faerie, particularly a Queen. However, Mab must balance the scales if a favour is owed and Butters would have to name his price.

So, if that's the case then I suspect Butters should either a) ask for something equal ASAP e.g. being freed after getting trapped OR b) save it for a rainy day.

Getting free of the entanglement is probably safer, but it might be more useful to save it up. I guess it's like any favour or investment - until it's realised it's not actually worth anything, and should you leave it too long you might lose it for whatever reason.

Conspiracy Theorist:
He can’t ask for something like a doughnut, only an idiot would do that.

Yuillegan:

--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on December 30, 2021, 09:07:05 PM ---He can’t ask for something like a doughnut, only an idiot would do that.

--- End quote ---
Only an idiot to some, I think. It wasn't just a doughnut after all. That in itself wouldn't have been a trade in favors of equal value. It was the escape from the agents of Summer that the requisitioning of the doughnut allowed for that was the real trade.

Butters could do something similar I would imagine.

Conspiracy Theorist:
Harry has a well cultivated image of being a bit of an idiot, and it has saved his life on several occasions. This is largely because his subconscious is not an idiot and is considerably smarter than his conscious. His conscious plan was indeed to delay Eldest Gruff with his request, but he was betting on the Eldest playing along once he got the doughnut and the obligation was discharged, or that it would take just long enough to discharge. If either of these assumption had been wrong, Harry would have been left holding a doughnut and no other means to defend himself against Gruff.

Except, with a doughnut Harry could have summoned the Za Lords Guard with their box cutters, taking down Eldest Gruff with cold iron. That was likely his subconscious’ backup plan in case the assumptions were wrong. He could have asked for a Coke like with Cat Sith, and a Pizza might have been a bit too obvious, but he has previously summoned Toot with a doughnut. Both pizzas and doughnuts are magic circles to the Little Folk, and are sweetened dough, two components of the traditional, bread, honey and milk summoning ritual. Basically he made Gruff obtain the instrument of his own destruction.

You have always got to figure that some of the stupid stuff that Harry does actually folds into a very not stupid and lethal backup plan in case the stupid plan fails. Sometimes it is just stupid though.

Butters wouldn’t do the not stupid lethal backup plan, ne is nicer than Harry.

Yuillegan:
See, I think Harry has self-esteem issues and henceforth feels the need to describe himself or think of himself as an idiot. He also often uses it to excuse poor and lazy behavior, which isn't great.

I agree he often plays the part of an idiot to fool his enemies, but I don't think it's as Machiavellian as someone constructing a persona. I think its far more organic than that. Harry just doesn't want to think of himself as intelligent and calculating, because that would force him to acknowledge his choices more than he is comfortable with. I also suspect that Harry has grown up in environments that at times made him want to hide his intelligence, so it was easier to pretend to be a fool. This is fairly evident because he goes from listing the benefits of study and being a great student and loving his work as a wizard or a PI to pretending he is just an average joe, just a guy who is like everyone else. And it's pointed out to him throughout the series that he is doing absurd mental gymnastics to connect that logic. Many have reminded him he isn't at all average, and the self-delusion is far more about Dresden's own issues than his mental capacity.

As for the doughnut incident, I think he was betting on Eldest Gruff being friendly, which he rightly assessed after a conversation. If he thought of Eldest Gruff as more hostile, I suspect he might have had a different boon to ask of. He also makes the kind of request to give Eldest Gruff some deniability so that he will not suffer so much of Titania's wrath, which is both polite and and kind. This earns him goodwill with Eldest Gruff, and perhaps by extension those friends of Eldest Gruff. Harry is smart enough to know all this, even if he didn't plan it and thought of it in the moment.

I think it's semantics to say the sub-conscious is smarter than the conscious. It's the same thing. His Id just happens to be more pragmatic. This can mean at times it appears more clear headed, although as Harry points out it just as often means it acts predictably and acting on instinct doesn't trump logic and reasoning.

I agree, Harry could have asked for a treat to summon the Za Lord's guard (although considering Eldest Gruff's skill with magic and combat experience, I wouldn't be so sure that he would be that easy to put down). I don't think I am entirely convinced he or his subconscious had thought of summoning the Guard, but that head canon could easily work.

The reality of course is that the line about getting a doughnut is tension relief; i.e. comedy. Jim creates a series of very tense moments, and releases that tension by creating a very silly moment. Great for an audience.

But I wouldn't be so sure that it was just stupid though. Remember, the Fae have to give and receive gifts of equal value (at least, that's the rule established in Grave Peril and elaborated on later in Ghost Story when Harry and Lea discuss the trade of Harry's memories). Balance is crucial. Had Harry not asked for a gift of equal value, it wouldn't have met the value of his boon and Summer would have been still in his debt and not meeting their word and obligation, and so he needed to ask for something of the value that the boon was given for (i.e. the help that he gave Summer in Proven Guilty).

I do agree that Harry makes stupid mistakes though, plenty of them. Harry would be first to admit that.

Butter's isn't as silly as Harry, he wouldn't even think to do something so strange. Butter's could ask for something valuable but still fairly low-tier though, like providing a distraction when he needs a getaway.

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