The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry should have trusted Ramirez
forumghost:
Harry is an idiot who apparently thought that his only options were "Tell Ramirez everything" or "Tell him nothing in the most antagonistic way possible" with no possible in between.
It also didn't hurt that the Wardens were kinda right not to trust him, seeing as how he was in fact in the middle of conspiring with Lara to disrupt a Peace Conference for selfish reasons.
Mira:
--- Quote from: forumghost on December 01, 2021, 04:47:14 AM ---Harry is an idiot who apparently thought that his only options were "Tell Ramirez everything" or "Tell him nothing in the most antagonistic way possible" with no possible in between.
It also didn't hurt that the Wardens were kinda right not to trust him, seeing as how he was in fact in the middle of conspiring with Lara to disrupt a Peace Conference for selfish reasons.
--- End quote ---
Who was trusting whom? First thing Carlos puts on Harry is a tracking device without telling him.
Would you have trusted someone who was supposedly your friend who did that? I don't think so. Remember this was before the assassination attempt even happened. So as a friend, why didn't Carlos come clean with Harry on the beach? No, though I wouldn't be shocked if it were Eb that ordered the tracking device.. But once that was done, hell no, Harry wasn't going to trust Carlos.
Would it have mattered one way or the other if Harry had told Carlos everything? Before the talks, Harry didn't know anything beyond what had happened... Again, first thing Carlos does when they catch up to Harry and Murphy after the visit to Lara is have Harry scanned for recent sexual encounters without his permission and believing the worst when it is found out that he had had recent sex.. You going to "trust" this guy who then claims to be your friend? I don't think so.. I think Harry would have been a idiot if he had told Carlos, "everything."
Ed0517:
i don't see Eb ordering the tracking. He would not work so blatantly against Harry.
But I COULD see him knowing and not alerting Harry.
Yuillegan:
The reality is the relationship breakdown had started long ago. As much as Ramirez once looked up to Harry, once he worked with him and developed a relationship with him he became painfully aware of Harry's flaws and failings. As they say, never meet your heroes.
The catalyst that broke the friendship might have been the deaths of Yoshimo and Wild Bill (and possibly Chandler). But really it was already fairly damaged well before then. Trust had been lost on both sides for a long time, they had been moving in different directions for some time now, and it's unsurprising really they are on a collision course.
Like all relationship issues, it never comes out of nowhere and it's never just one thing (even if one or both parties might think that). It's always a series of things, there are always things that have been building up.
I don't know that Harry "should" have trusted Ramirez during the events of Peace Talks (and of course Battle Ground) considering the relationship breakdown by this point. Work would have needed to be done much earlier to avert the events that followed and subsequent collapse of trust. But perhaps Harry should have tried to mend the relationship and put more effort in years ago, certainly prior to the events of Changes. After that...there wasn't much time for Dresden to work on any relationships. Then again, it's hard to say how much effort Ramirez put in to earn that trust either. We only see Harry's perspective and that tends to skew things.
Tactically, it might have been wiser to let Ramirez on a few things (especially with the benefit of hindsight), but that being said Harry clearly saw Ramirez was working against him already by this point. It's like giving a cop the information to sabotage your efforts in trying to do some good, even if it isn't how they like it, and then they arrest you or whatever. Harry made probably the best choice he could with the available information at the time. Doesn't mean it was the ultimate best choice but Harry is neither omniscient or infallible, hardly even close.
Don't forget, Ramirez could have chosen to trust Harry some more too. There are consequences to that as well.
forumghost:
--- Quote from: Mira on December 01, 2021, 05:22:33 AM --- Who was trusting whom? First thing Carlos puts on Harry is a tracking device without telling him.
Would you have trusted someone who was supposedly your friend who did that? I don't think so. Remember this was before the assassination attempt even happened. So as a friend, why didn't Carlos come clean with Harry on the beach? No, though I wouldn't be shocked if it were Eb that ordered the tracking device.. But once that was done, hell no, Harry wasn't going to trust Carlos.
Would it have mattered one way or the other if Harry had told Carlos everything? Before the talks, Harry didn't know anything beyond what had happened... Again, first thing Carlos does when they catch up to Harry and Murphy after the visit to Lara is have Harry scanned for recent sexual encounters without his permission and believing the worst when it is found out that he had had recent sex.. You going to "trust" this guy who then claims to be your friend? I don't think so.. I think Harry would have been a idiot if he had told Carlos, "everything."
--- End quote ---
I agree he would've been a idiot to tell Carlos everything. But he could have said something.
Instead, when his friends go "Yo Dres we're kinda worried that you've been enthralled by a Succubus Queen can you give us some reassurance here"... Harry grounds his staff and prepared for combat.
He did worse then nothing: he provided evidence in favour of him being controlled.
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